GameBanshee Forums

here is ald velothi exclusively for gb users

I just DL'ed the file, so will do a bit later

Incidentally,
in case anyone wants to check out the Morrowind books without having to search through the volumes in the game itself, this link may prove useful. The books are sorted by topic which is quite handy.
http://til.gamingsource.co.uk/mwbooks/

Here are a couple more links:
http://www.angelfire.com/nv/zeldanet/Mo ... books.html
http://www.angelfire.com/ca7/lisatkiom/ ... Books.html

Cool, this should prove useful for the project and, I want to read some of the stuff that we all discussed in the "Read any good books lately" thread without looking in game, because for some I wouldn't know where to start.

Thanks.

I've been thinking about the NPCs in Morrowind.... As I've mentioned elsewhere in this forum, while playing the game I have compared and contrasted it a lot to Baldur's Gate Two and Planescape Torment. What really strikes me is that in Morrowind it is not just that the NPCs are flat and generic, though clearly this is a significant factor, hence the project

Put simply, the Morrowind NPCs leave me cold. In the above games I mention, I actually (as much as can be expected within a game) had an interest in the stories and lives of the characters populating those realms. They were complex, often tragic, 'people' with very realistic levels of humanity.

Perhaps it is beyond the scope of this project but what I would really love to do at some point is create various new NPCs with that level of human depth. Maybe it would even be possible to weave them into a few quests, if we could avoid conflicts with other mods. IMO, one of the best places to begin something like this would be in the Grazelands.. which if I recall correctly is not as overly modded as Balmora and the Bitter Coast.

Thoughts?

I like that idea a lot. There is a complete lack of sympathy with most NPCs in the game. Much of it has to do with the sense of unreality they provoke. Those NPCs who do respond as a result stand out very sharply, even if, in some cases, they're annoying as hell. (I remember one guarding mission for a Mage's Guild up in Telvanni territory that involved a really obnoxious mage...)

Trying to give them quests, though, even very simple ones, would involve some rewriting that's best attempted on areas nobody else uses. It would really be worth doing, however.

Great idea, and in the grazelands no less. My new favorite area is the grazelands. It is like farm land for golden saints, and the scenery isnt at all bad either. But back to that. I agree with the not feeling for npcs... The only Npcs that i do feel bad for are the slaves and Umbra. If we could make some real npcs with some in depth stories that would be awesome.

This sounds like a very nice idea, I'd certianly like to give it a try, I've also come across very few NPCs that make me care - although that orc you have to kill for the fighters guild in Balmora, I always fell sorry for her just before I kill her, yet its not a Cammona Tong quest.

I've just had another thought regarding the thread 'Things a Morrowind NPC would never say'. I thought scattered throughout Vvardenfell we could put in a few of those things in latest rumours, not so much that our NPC comes out of character, but enough so that people who've used this forum get a smile out of it. The guard in Ald Velothi talks about never getting to sit down or rest - because she's the only one.

Maybe somebody in Khuul could say "Where have all the children gone?" As many people on this forum have said - this game takes itself way to seriously.

I like the first, but the second might almost break the game illusion of a separate universe--if a character points to a lack of children, the player is going to have the fact that MW's developers didn't create any kid animations thrust in their faces. But I do like the idea of some of the more realistic things being added.

I agree with you about the children having thought it over, although I wouldn't mind adding some dialogue to Miaq the liar, and the other surreal NPCs along those lines. I'm hoping that the references the guard makes to never getting to sit down will lead to a smile on the lips of GameBanshee users.

I agree with you, that will fit well. I can see many opportunities to include small, sly bits of humor poking fun at not just MW, but at CRPGs in general. I've got a few in mind.

Forgive my ignorance, but what does the C in CRPG stand for? I've racked my brains and can't come up with it.

DM

Computerized roleplaying game. As opposed to the pen-and-paper kind. Many of the latter go into a great deal more detail than CRPGs, because they have the finest visual engine of all at their disposal: the human imagination.

Ahhh. Suddenly it all clicks together. Thanks.

Originally posted by fable
I agree with you, that will fit well. I can see many opportunities to include small, sly bits of humor poking fun at not just MW, but at CRPGs in general. I've got a few in mind.

I think that would be a great idea!

This is another criticism I have of the game as well, there is little humour within dialogue itself. As we have discussed in the 'funny things an NPC would say' thread, some of the random outbursts can be quite entertaining, but actually talking to NPCs is another matter completely...

Agreed. For example, I can envision this being one aspect of a discussion with Maar Gan's Alds Boro, if you ask about my trade:

"My trade? I'm a professional money-loser, of course! Do you have any idea just how difficult it is for a merchant to make money these days in Vvardenfell? Let's say I take some of Salen Ravel's potions for a percentage of the profits down to Ald'ruhn. Sounds simple, except that I lose 3 of the 8 drakes I'd hoped to make on every potion to Thieves Guild protection, and those damnable dust storms eat through 4 drakes' worth of insulating fabric around each bottle. Or I can go visit Caldera's Creeper, make 10 drakes on a potion, buy more supplies, give 3 to the Imperial Guards for verifying that my money is legitimate, and lose 40 drakes in total because the pack guars are almost all down with some mysterious disease. It's either rent one at exorbitant prices, or crawl back home with the goods on my own back. Teleportation? What do you think that Folms Mirel does, give the stuff away? Two hundred and eighty drakes for a little ring that sends me--to Vos! Vos, so dull that even the Dummers die of boredom counting their toes! No one wants to buy anything, and it's nowhere near Maar Gan! Then there's the loss in potion strength as time passes, the chance of purity degradation from exposure to sunlight, the fluctuating monetary exchange rates, the lack of travel when the guars have their mating season which can never be predicted, but always seems to involve my travel arrangements in some occult formulae..."

Your remark: So what's the answer?

Boro: "You stay in your shop 24/7, hopefully waiting for a sucker like yourself to buy goods they can get elsewhere. Better hurry, I feel exhausted for some reason."

The above is just a vague idea at the moment, but I think it has possibilities.

I've been following this thread, and have been intrigued. I'm wondering to what extent the use of certain variables about the Player Character can be expanded in the conversations. For example, we already know that Personality and Speechcraft are considered when an NPC's attitude is first assessed, and you will sometimes get different dialogue at different levels of attitude (affected by persuasion). So, I assume you people are making changes to the generic "I'm sorry, but I don't like you well enough to talk about that" line. But what else could be done?

Could additional lines of dialogue be added at different levels of "admire"? Maybe other variables could be used, and different dialogue be opened if the PC is of a certain race, gender, or skill level?

I think you've explored this to a certain extent with the racist NPCs, but maybe some NPCs are particularly admiring of a certain race? Maybe a Dunmer in Mar Gan is a Nord-phile much as Fable is an English phile? If you're playing a Nord and you meet this guy, you could be subjected to a whole, annoying gush of questions about what its like to be a Nord; is it true that Nords live in snow caves? Is it true that Nords are hung like bears? You get the drift.

Other variables that are used in the game could be expanded. For example, most NPCs will mention in their greeting whether you are wearing fancy clothes, and maybe a trader will open up new conversation options because of your clothing: He might offer to trade you for you exquisite pants, or try to wheedle out where you bought them, or admire how well you patched up the sword holes in the exquisite shirt that you obviously got off of someone you killed...

NPCs will also note when the PC is not wearing clothes at all, and this could lead to some very interesting conversations - especially in Earthly Delights....

Perhaps proficiently in Short Blades will cause some aficionados of the Tanto to launch into a detailed history of the blade, and maybe offer a nice one from his collection for sale.

There's always the 'Noober option' in dialogue: the guy who won't stop talking until someone kills him....

I would also be interested in more conversation 'trees' where the PC has a couple of different ways of answering an NPC's question, and different conversation routes might lead to different conversations and possible mini-quests.

So, are you guys working on anything like this?

I'd like to, but Dark Master's pointed out how time-consuming that is to put in place. I suspect a little bit will go a long way, although I'd enjoy making an NPC respond one way to a female and another to a male, or have an NPC start taunting, admiring, etc, on your PC.

Thats some seriously impressive writing Fable... and the little reference at the end is pure class. Blake has visited Maar Gan for me and we've found that there are 24 NPCs, so far the team consists of myself, Blake, Beornica, Fable, Dagon Wench, and Arno, which means that each person will have an average of 6 NPCs (some people won't have the time for that many, so the weighting might not be even) - but I'm hoping that more people will join the team.

@Fable If you want to start building the dialogue for Alds Boro, that would be great, if there are any others you specifically want to write dialouge for, specify them here and I'll mark them on the list for you. I've done my NPC's for Khuul, and right now I'm adding other people's into the game as they come, (I only had to do two, others had to do four), but it does mean that rather than waiting for us to get to Mar Gaan you can make a start if you like. If you email me over dialouge in the following format, I can start adding it to the plugin right away. (Format below)



NPC Name:

Background:

My Trade:

Maar Gan:

Latest Rumours:

Someone in particular:

Little Advice:

Little Secret:

Specific Place:

Services:

Dunmer {if the NPC is a different race, replace with their race}:

Add here any new topics you want the NPC to have:


If you want multiple responses based on the player characters race, or gender, write them and specify which is which, I can put that in game, if you want choice dialogue, as in branching stuff, I can do that too, but you would have to tell me which response comes after which players choice.

DM

EDIT:

Wow. When I posted this two new replies had come up. If people are prepared to write the responses for both the NPC and the options for a player character in a dialogue tree, I'm prepared to take the time to put it in game. I'm also prepared to have differing responses based on factors like clothes, gender and race, but at present I've only managed to work out how to give NPCs a different response based on whether the player is of the same race, or the same gender (speak to the mage in Ald Velothi about little advice as both a Dumner and somebody else and you'll see this). Arno's first NPC in Khuul has a dialogue tree, whereby you can invite the NPC to continue, or tell her to shut up.

I'm teaching myself the CS editor as we go, hoepfully by some of the later towns we will be able to have NPCs comment on clothing, and even talk about short blades if the Player is sufficiently skilled in them. At present though, I'm still learning the basics.

There's also nothing saying we can't revisit old towns done in the early stages and add dialogue trees to them eventually, so no door is ever closed, so @Fable, it would be great if your NPC's had a specific response to certain topics based on the gender of the player - and I can put that in with no trouble. END EDIT.

Wow. When I posted this two new replies had come up. If people are prepared to write the responses for both the NPC and the options for a player character in a dialogue tree, I'm prepared to take the time to put it in game. I'm also prepared to have differing responses based on factors like clothes, gender and race, but at present I've only managed to work out how to give NPCs a different response based on whether the player is of the same race, or the same gender (speak to the mage in Ald Velothi about little advice as both a Dumner and somebody else and you'll see this).

So our only options at this time for branching dialog are clothes, gender and race? Just want to be sure I understand. I was thinking of using the "secrets" topic based on numerical reputation, but I'll ignore that if we really can't do anything with it.