GameBanshee Forums

My Mom Who is 50 won it.
i went to her house the other day and she was wining it again

@Vbarash, there is no need to apologize for any linguistic complexities in your posts. You'd written earlier that you were, what, Russian...? If so, I congratulate you on your mastery of a foreign language. Especially a relatively difficult one, like English, which you write better than many native speakers I've known.

On the matter of Freud, I would suggest that, brilliant and insightful though he undoubtedly was, the man operated from within a society that limited and categorized his perceptions of people. (As what society doesn't? Except that Freud was trying to establish what he perceived as universal truths.) This was furthered by the fact that his patients were all from the same society; therefore, they exhibited behaviors that confirmed his prejudices. I'm reminded tangentially that people who claim to see the afterlife during a "death experience" invariably see the afterlife they have been culturally trained to expect.

To escape from my own labyrinth before the minotaur of related thoughts leads me further into the maze, Freud's conclusion that males exhibit "active" sexual behavior while women exhibit "passive" sexual behavior was, IMO, conditioned by his upbringing and behavior. Had he the opportunity to study some Indian subcontinent or African societies, he might have noticed, not individual exceptions, but entire groups which reversed the polarity of his results.

Which, I suppose, Freud would have rebutted by chalking it up to a society-wide aberation, perhaps caused by some momentus change in a culture's past--equating the body social with the body personal. It's an argument, though, which is static, since it can't be proven or disproven. This also gets into the area of labeling certain non-violent behaviors as automatically abnormal since they stood against what Freud perceived as a social majority, a practice that some forms of psychology are abandoning for their lack of broader social comprehension.

The matter of Freud (to whom, I'll admit, I've always preferred Jung) to one side, I must say that your contribution to this discussion has been as good as your English. I look forward to your next response.

[ 04-28-2001: Message edited by: fable ]

As Freud would no doubt say, "A bump is as good as a grind."

@fable: well, I do agree with you on the matter of Freud's psychoanalysis being affected by his social upbringing. I see that whatever argument I've come up with you could very apppropriately refute by alluding to it not being universal or all-encompassing, but rather having limited social boundaries. It's the old debate of nature vs. nurture.

Society does, indeed, play an enormous part in the development of the individual. It fills the initially animal-like human nature with a ton of artificial facts and customs, without which it would be impossible for us to boast of our great accomplishments. But I think (dare I? ) that there is something much more instinctive, intrinsic in human nature, some primordial difference between men and women. Society augments that difference, but society, too, was built upon it from the start. The males, as in all animal species, had to hunt and bring food home, while the females (may have) gathered and took care of the children. Hence even as the social nature of man went through its first stages of development, an awareness was already present that males and females have separate spheres of influence. This separation was treated differently:

In patriarchies, males saw the "lack of female activity at home" (I am not actually saying that such activity was lacking) and made passivity the first generalization of the female.

In matriarchies, emphasis was placed upon the miracle of the female giving birth, for which the female has (as you mentioned, this view has been disputed) from the earliest stages been associated with strange magical powers.

Society transformed the "male" and the "female", BIOLOGICAL terms with biological differences, into the "masculine" and the "feminine", social, physchological, and philosophical terms. Here different societies played different parts. I am not that familiar with Indian societies, but there the uniqueness of women may have been emphasized over the uniqueness of men (men are unique in their bringing food home just as women are unique in their childbearing, or at least it is possible to compare the two). In Europe, and later in the USA, the uniqeness of men was emphasized over that of women. Nowhere has a total domination of the uniqueness of one gender occurred...

So what I'm trying to say in conclusion is that while the arguments of society influencing the individual, whether it be the common man or a scientist, are very convincing, they can not wholly represent the picture of gender roles in human history. Gender roles have a biological, specifically, genetic background, too. I do, however, thank you for reminding me of the social side of the issue, which I had forgotten by trying to argue my point so vehemently.

@Vbarash, I won't argue with your conclusions--you're right, the physical facts of gender enforce a degree of difference in roles in so-called primitive societies. Technologically advanced societies don't have those problems, but we're looking at origins, here.

I should say that I don't regard an individual as simply a product of their environment. A lot has to do with the level of self-awareness that individual manifests, and the choices they make; but obviously, the genetic makeup and environmental are major contributors to the formation of every person.

<Breaks in>
From a womans point (or at least mine, not all women of course)
This is back to the original discussion, but I personally feel that most women do not play because there is stress to get so many things accomplished (house cleaning, bills, appearances, friends, etc...), and playing computer games doesn't accomplish 'anything'.
For myself, it accomplishes a lot, it's a stress reliever and there's a goal involved. But then I play Diablo 2 as well as Civ, so *shrug* it's all individual tastes.

Okay, back to our regularily scheduled debate: Males define the world. (Fable, you know I like you, just had to tease you)

<End Trans>

@Viv, you will always have a warm spot in my heart.

Fable: That's so sweet *hug*
<Whispers: Shhh...don't tell the others, but you're my favorite >

Don't worry, your secret is safe with me...!

Ahem. What are you all staring at! Everybody, back to their own beds!

Rescued from oblivion on the 5th page, this topic hath returned!

bump!

Fable: You will by persistance keep this active Good for you

Any other female gamers out there? *trying to do her part to help Fable out*

Goodness, it's been almost a month since I posted here. It's a pity that discussion died down (for my part, I had to stop looking at the board and start reviewing for my exams. Once they are over... I guess I'll just post and wait for ToB to come out, where (maybe) there will be more balanced male-female romances.

@Vbarash, you ought to come down to the SYM area. We're discussing this, among other things.