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I suspect using Methuslah+ levels of auspex and obfuscate they can learn EVERYTHING about how to fit in AND convince everyone around them that they are perfectly normal and 'fit in' in a matter of moments, never mind nights.......

He even speaks english! And imagine what kind of trouble he had to go through to get to the states. Considering where the details of his crime have been recorded, he must have been on the eurasian continent before he ... dissappeared.
Putting all this aside, i think Troika made a very good move here.
After a game that dealt with the scum of society, the ending makes up for all that. It shows us, that even when you are down on your luck ,you still have a chance in the states. I wish Mr. Caine good luck with his enterprise!
Being his passenger made me have a *ball* of a time. He is not a grumpy person at all, and helped to make the time pass with conversation.And the best thing is: He didn't charge me a dime, and refused any tips! ^^

RwStagg:
But nowadays a *single* could be their doom.
Now, if they managed to fit-in perfectly why do the vampires fear them so much? So much that they think the world would end, if they wake up?
Only reason i can think of is ,that they would blow the masquerade.

Yello! I actauly just came here to find a solution to the horrid lag and sound skipping in the game (500 more megs of ram?? DOH!) but I thought "Seeing as I've played VTM and run it for many yeas now, why don't I help out with a few details?"... Then I frowned because I was talking to myself. Anyway!

Oh, and I spose I should warn you, if your not interested in the details of the game, or don't want some of it's secrets suddenly thrown into a garish pink fluro 60's light... Look away... Sometime soonish!!

Clans: Cam: Brujah, Ventrue, Torreador, Nosferatue, Malkavian, Tremere, Gangrel (*), Gargoyles (***)

Sabbat: All the above, correctly brainwashed and blood bound through an acient ritual called "The Vaniculum" to serve the sabbat. Also Lasombra and Tzimisce, Kyasid (***), Blood Brothers (***), Haybringers Of Skulls (Once known as Capadocians)(***), a small handful of Salubri Antitribue (***)

Indepedant: Giovanni, Ravnos, Setties, Assamite (**)

Others who are either stupid, clanless or not worth talking about: Cattiff/Panda, Baali,.. Er.. Dem flesh eating vampries what's names I can never spell.. Like the one in the basement of the hopsital... True Brujah, Daughters Of The Cacophony, Samedi, Salubri.

* Who recently left the Cammerilla after they chided the clans leader for claiming he found a "Monster of godly power" and saying it was an antedeluvian

** Who recently in part joined the Cammerilla, because they were being destoryed by internal politics.

*** Who really are just some rubbish White Wolf slapped together to sell more books, make more people play or so on.

Tremere history: Mages seeking imortality, the Tremere stumbled upon a group of vampries living near their home country who called themselves "The Tzimisce". Using the blood of these vampries to embrace themselves, they quickly came under attack from ALL vampire clans, seeing as they were abominations under Caines law, breeches of the Masquerade and just down right rude. However, the clans affinitity with magic allowed them to create Thurmaturgy, and using it they staved off the constant attacks from mortals and kindred alike. Grudingly, the vampires acepted the Tremere... Better allies then enemies after all, at which stage it became obvious to the Tremere they were outmatched and still hated for the most part. Starting a demonisiation slader effort against the Salubri, they mannaged to pull the attention of the vampires away from them and towards the "Evil" clan. Using the distraction caused by the clans almost total genocide, they located the sleeping antedeluvian and Tremere himself diablerised him. Jokes on him mind you.

Why would saulot DO that??: Like most antedeluivians, Saulot had very little love for his clan, seeing most of them as rampaing beasts with a hunger for blood, despite their healing powers. Allowing... Maybe even maniuplating, the Tremere to destory the clan, he was able to save a few choice members who ahdered to his ideals, and at the same time, allow himself to escape his endlessly slumbering body by usurping the soul of a usurper... Oh! The irony makes me giggle like a school girl!
Of course, another option thats been very popular, espeicialy amoung the jaded, bitter little vampire players in the world... Maybe he really WANTED to die. The average human has humanity 6-7-8... Saulot had 10, from reaching the fabeled vampire state of Golconda. Maybe, after all the years of feasting on human blood, cursing others to live in darkness, using mortals like pawns in the endless jyhad.. Maybe he was just fed up and knew he SHOULD die. Maybe it's the only peace he ever really wanted. Maybe he was dissapointed when he realised his tainted, vamperic soul wouldn't let he fade away so easily.

What IS that horrid monkey man sherif dude?!: The power to vanish doesn't exclude him from being Tzimisce. After all, one suggested use of Animalism at Elder Levels is to transform into a swarm of something TINY. Fleas? Flies? This allows you to escape quickly and chances are nobody will step on enough of you to kill you. Why does the spot light hurt so much? Bat's eye sighte is horrid, as you said... However, many Timzisce compensate for this by using Auspex level 1 (Heightened senses) The only draw back to this power, is sudden flashes of light, loud sounds, or overpowering sensation can cause intense pain. Imagine you had your headphones on and someone cranked the sound up to "ear drum buggering". If he was using this power to allow him to see better, a blast with a spot light could really set the poor bugger back.

Caine, the cabby: Agreed! This is dead set lame. Elder vampries, Caine included, are known for their tendancy NOT to be able to keep up with the times. Even if Caine did wake from torpor, wander over to the US, and mannaged to pick up some clothes... His english? Knowning how to drive a car? Slang? All these things would be horrific and new to him. Lets assume he DID learn these things by.. say.. Plucking them from a mortal mind instantly, it was said on here his Aura was brilliant deep purple. Sadly, due t the face they are dead, Vampires auras are dull and faded at best. Brilliant colours come from werewolves (eep!) and Fae (pee?).

What the heck is Vicissitude and Obtenerbration? why do you keep using such nasty big words?!: Vicissitude is a blood illness born of the younger members of Clan Timzisce. In it's most basic form, it's a link to their clan founder (Mr Tzimisce) which allows them to reshape the world of flesh and bone. At it's early levels, simple things like hair colour, eye colour, face shape, skin tone and general look can be changed... At higher levels? The human body is your play ground, allowing them to create horrid, twisted.. but POWERFUL servitor ghouls (Szlacter, Vohzd), arm themselves with bone exoskeletons, flesh sacks full of blood, extra mouths, or just turn their entier body into blood.. Or worse, horrid war forms to match the power of werewolves hand to hand.
Obviously, being a 7 foot tall, man/woman hybrid with bone spikes that drip venom, eyes all over your head and mouths on the end of tendrils running from under your shirt doesn't agree totaly with the Cammerilla's strict "Don't look like a freak" policy.
As for Obtenerbration, the power of the Lasombra clan is nasty. Real nasty. Even the basic levels, which simple make things dark, can also be used to choke a person to death (litteral smothering darkness). At latter levels, becoming living shadow, stepping into planes of darkness and filling other people with shadows to make them puppets are all common... Understandable, then, that these powers were either kept entierly to NPC's, or just not included at all.

Whos affraid of the deluvians?: Why worry about the rise of the antedeluvians? Wow... Have I even ONCE spelt that word the same way?? Ahem, anyway... As vampires get more and more powerful, the blood they need must also be more and more powerful. Eventualy, rat blood just wont sustain you, less vibrant and healthy mortals become like water, mortals themselves eventualy become meaningless and then you get whats called "The Methusala thirst"... Thats right, drinking anything but vampire blood becomes uselss. What's that? All the clan founders are waking up soon? Hmmm.. How hungry are they and whats their snack of choice? GASP!! ME?!

Golconda and you, a 3 step guide to saving your soul: Golconda is just another name for being really really nice. It's a "mythical" state that some vampires strive to achive, where you no longer need to feed off blood (as much), no longer crave violence, contest, darkness, where you can escape the tricks and traps of the jyhad and be at peace. To achive this, you need a VERY high humanity rating (and in the Pen And Paper version of the game, I assure you, there are no "Combat" zones. Killing a cop is ALWAYS just killing a cop) and the want to escape the curse. Easy right? Shh-yeah! They wish.

Mummy got me a jyhad for x-mas: The Jyhad is basicly an acient tiff between the clans founders, the antedeluvians. However, lets face it, if you had intelligence byond human understanding and the ability to manipulate the world with a thought, would YOU fight your own battles? I don't think so! The rules are simple, the person who's clan of vampires find and kills all the other ante's before they, themselves are killed wins. Now go play!
Of course, there is one catch. It's said that, cos the whole jyhad thing will take longer to play out then the earth will last, eventualy the players will all wake up, yawn, strech and say "Ah stuff it!" and just start biffing it out like school kids. Of course, when a single breath from your lips freezes over the sun, or a brush of your hand sinks islands into the sea, a rumble in the bronx bewteen 4 of you can sorta get messy.

Of course, the game obviously wasn't intended to be 100% WOD (World of Darkness) authentic... If it was, 90% of the game would be you, in your haven, telling your Ghoul where to go, who to speak to and what to say before you started making phone calls, planning to stab the other vampires in the back on a recent property development... I can't see hundreds of bloodthristy gamers clawing at shelves, desperate to pay their $80 to get a copy of Vampire: The sitting-around-ing.
Now that I've prattled on FAR to long about something NOBODY was interested in, I'll vanish into obsucrity and hope I don't get banned for a needlessly long post about Vampire terms, rules and spoilers. Bub bye!

[QUOTE=Intergalactic]
But nowadays a *single* could be their doom.
Now, if they managed to fit-in perfectly why do the vampires fear them so much? So much that they think the world would end, if they wake up?
Only reason i can think of is ,that they would blow the masquerade.[/QUOTE]

I have grave doubts that any mortal could destroy one, well unless you count pushing the button on the nuclear weapon as one person I suppose lol.....
Like Pennypincher mentioned I think kindred are more worried about the antedelivians eating, well, them than the masquerade. Whether they would blow the masquerade is arguably pointless, the fact that they're gonna wanna go munchies on all the vampires is the more important, I mean if they were just gonna blow the masquerade and use their massive powers to rule over all the mortals then that, by itself, can only benefit the vampires.

Well, yes an no I spose.
The ante's, for everything they are, sure AREN'T human. Most of them have no humanity score left, having instead chosen to follow a path of teaching to help them through their undeath... Those that havent taken up a path, are either So low on humanity that it's just not funny any more, or simply have none left, putting them in a perment frenzy (a state called "Wasail" a little in-joke for anyone who knows what the word means).
What does all this mean? When the ante's wake up, nobobdy knows what they would do. It's certain they would devour most of the population of the earth the feed their hunger, and it's certain they would destory most of the world in their quest to kill each other.. But the one who wins? What would it do? God alone knows... They no longer think like a human at all. They have NO humanity.. No emotion, no human thought, no feeling, they don't reason like a human.
It may be that, upon the destruction of all their foes, they just wait to die, knowing they "won". Maybe they would make themselves a god on earth. Maybe they would let things go back to normal, or maybe they would force all life into slavery and try and turn people to think like them... Urk.
One thing is for certain thou... No one human, nuke or not, can hope to face an antedeluvian. Wanna hear a story? You Do!? Cool!
The last time (before the stupid Time Of Judgment Story Line) an ante was seen was when Ravnos awoke from his torpor and once again walked the earth. His children all but destoryed each other in a mad diablery frenzy... Brought about by Ravnos himself so that only the best blood would survive for him to drink? At which stage, weakened and without blood, the ante rose in India.
Now, Ravnos has Fortitude, Animalism and Chimestry (the art of illusion, thou at lvl 9.. Which the clan founder CERTAINLY hand... You can just alter reality in ay way you like)... Suffice to say, a nice array of powers. The 3 most powerful, dead and acient kuie-jin elders died a horrid, meaningless, bloody death trying to kill him without so much as upsetting him. Thousands of villages in the area were torn through in seconds. A secret society that runs the goverment in the WOD called "The Order Of Reason" or "The Technocrocy" dropped 3.. Count them... 3 nukes on the devil... Which upset him a great deal.
He was finaly destoryed when the Russian sun mirrors were activated and pointed at him. Sure, the power of ONE sun may not fry an ante with Fortitude 10... But when you got three extra highly intense sun's blasting you, it's time to say goodnight.
But was that the end of him? Oh heavens no! His soul split into thousands of shards and hunted the spirit worlds for trickster spirits of fae, eating them alive.. But thats another long and boring story.
Whats the relevance? Well, the cammerilla deny that there are ante's at all, and the sabbat want them dead... But theres one thing everyone agree's on. If they ever DID wake up and mannaged to recover their power... It's not a masquerade breech. It's the end of the earth.

Problem!

Caine being in this story makes no sense, caine has specificaly removed himself from any contact with kindred
Disguted at wot his Childe became

So the idea it is Caine is ridcuoulous

Agreed! However the sound files names, and a few hints throught the game that.. When take in the Caine context make sense where they didn't before, suggest they did it anyway. Maybe it's their way of slapping us all in logic button and laughing at us from far away where we can't hurt them.
Then again, the game isn't.. Of course.. 100% Table Top Role Playing Game authentic, so maybe in THIS version of the World Of Darkness, Caines just a really swell cabbie who likes to usher people back and forth, loves chitty chat, and doesn't mind making a pretty average wage.

Or he took the Cabby's place at the last minute to guide you on your decision. Listen to the voices of the final cab driver and the normal one. The normal one has an American accent, the final one... is more European, imo. He rolls his r's a bit. That makes me think that he's there just to guide you to your decision, coming out of his recluse to help Jack/ you (or whatever). Still a lame plot device, but better than Redemption's juggling of the world.

EDIT: I haven't read most of this thread (too long ) so if I'm repeating anything, then eh.

Yeah, he sorta sounds like a bad dracula from a B grade film doesn't he? I keep expecting him to say:

"I can take you to China town, blur blur, I vant to zuck your blood"

I decided to post this because some people are asking questions about certain Clans and Bloodlines from V:TM.

Clans:
Assamite, Proginator:Haquim

Brujah, Proginator: Brujah/Troile

Followers of Set, Proginator:Set

Gangrel, Proginator: Ennoia

Giovanni, Proginator: Augustus Giovanni (Note* Augustus was originally Clan Capadocian but committed diablerie on Capadocious to assume 3rd Generation and form new Clan.)

Lasombra, Proginator: Lasombra

Malkavian, Proginator:Malkav

Nosferatu, Proginator: Absimilliard

Ravnos, Proginator: Ravanna

Toreador, Proginator: Arikel or Ishtar (unknown for sure)

Tremere, Proginator: Tremere (*Note, Mortal mage Tremere was changed by Saluot and then diablerized Saluot to beome 3rd Generation and attempted to destroy Clan Salubri. Salulot was not destroyed though)

Tzimisce, Proginator: Tzimisce

Ventrue, Proginator:Ventrue

Bloodlines:
Anda, Parent Clan-Gangrel

Ahrimanes, Parent Clan-Gangrel

Baali, Parent Clan-Salubri

Blood Brothers, Parent Clan- Tzimisce

Cappadocians, Proginator-Capadocious (original Clan that was usurped by Augustus Giovanni)

Children of Osiris, Parent Clan-Followers of Set

City Gangrel- Parent Clan-Gangrel

Daughters of Cacophony, Parent Clan-Toreador

Gargoyles, Parent Clan-Tremere

Harbingers of Skulls, Parent Clan-Cappadocians (*Note, the HoS may actually be Clan Cappadocian and not a bloodline)

Kiasyd, , Parent Clan-Lasombra

Laibon, Parent Clan-Gangrel

Lamia, Parent Clan-Cappadocian

Lhiannan, Parent Clan-Gangrel

Mariner Gangrel, Parent Clan-Gangrel

Nagaraja, , Parent Clan-unknown possibly Salubri or Cappadocian

Salubri, Proginator-Saulot (Original Clan usurped by mortal Mages)

Samedi, Parent Clan-Nosferatu

Sons of Discord, Parent Clan-Toreador

Tlacique, , Parent Clan-Followers of Set

True Brujah, Parent Clan-None...Clan Brujah is decendant from True Brujah

If I want to end the game on Kuej-jin side, do I make that happen in the cab after my bloodhunt? Or do I have to tell Ming that it is nice to see her in Downtown when she reveals the secret at Grouts Mansion to make that ending?

So far I have just done the anarch, and "my self as a legend" ending.

Ripe, please put your question under another thread you create for that topic. This topic is just for discussion of endings in the game. Thanks. Post removed.

I don't completely get it. What started as an discussion about the different endings, ended in a lot of incomprehendible talk about vampire backgrounds and bloodlines and Caine and...
Ah well, it's fun to read. Anyhow, on the Dane-mission it's obvious that something crawled *out* of the sarco***us. Couldn't this have been Caine? When you look at his aura using Auspex, you clearly see an very powerful purple aura. (I'm referring to the cabdriver).
Just a wild guess: He keeps an eye on you because he _knows_ what you are capable of...

I also think the sarcophacus contained Caine himself. It was already opened on board of the Elizabeth Dane - I'm thinking Jack freed Caine (after all, there's a comment about them having 'just met') and planted the bomb (Jack in a box, the fortune teller connection, 'the father behind him').

Then where does Messerach come from?

[QUOTE=Komissar Charon]Then where does Messerach come from?[/QUOTE]

Guess he's been keeping Caine a little company
Well, loads of conspiracy theories here... Caine who's been locked away in the sarcophagus by the Mesopterians, Caine who smuggles himself in (not likely, I know)... But SOMETHING's been crawling out of the sarcophagus, you can't deny that.