No deaths, no reloads

koz-ivan · Post by **koz-ivan** » Tue Jul 10, 2001 3:43 pm

with a party of 5 npc's it's pretty hard to get all ac's that low.
in my final save:
saravok, -8 or -13 w/ darksteel shield
jaheria -11 w/ sentinel shield + yammoto
nalia -8 zerthblade + buckler
imoen -7 (staff of magi)
minsc -9 no shield dual wield
pc (assassin) -15 w/ shield -10 w/ x-bow.

most of the really good equipment was used, gaxx, sewercloak, earth cntrl, defender weapons, ect.

you also have to add what i refer to as the domino effect. once a char goes down sometimes it is very difficult to recover in combat, example: it's great fun when saravok gets charmed & comes charging at you, or better yet aerie, when she's the one you've been relying on for dispel magic. now your party of 6 is 4 and the bad guys went from 8 to 9. ok try to recover, imoen's got a dispel, which she tries to cast but she's getting pummled by the other bad guys cause her bodyguard saravok... wack. wack. reload.

tob is about as hard as it could possibly be, there is a very real reason why this is only an expansion, and the last inf. eng. game. the same programs which were very good at handling mostly vanilla low level char's is now forced to compensate for a multitude of kits / classes / special abilities. and i'm sorry to hear that it does not live up to your expectations of high level death trap.

why does everyone expect this game to be that hard? your char & party are of such level that competition is hard to find. in bg 1 6 kobolds w/ fire arrows could decimate a party, and fast, there is quite simply nothing that could do the same to a party of legends. how cheesy would it be if your party was just walking around town and a flight of dragons just wanders by.

tob provides a challenge to average gamers like myself, i guess from your experience & others that the game just plain can't provide enough challenge to players at the high end of the spectrum.

(that being said it's worth finishing, if only to say you did it, if you quit now because it's too easy, you may always wonder if that real tough fight was just beyond the next door.)

personally i'd be very interested to hear if in fact you can finish the game w/o dying, you prob. can but i still think the hardest fights are in front of you.

Doltan · Post by **Doltan** » Tue Jul 10, 2001 4:07 pm

As for the silly debate about whether soloing or having a party of six is more difficult, try soloing and you'd have your answer (it's a lot more difficult through SOA at least).

Scott · Post by **Scott** » Tue Jul 10, 2001 4:14 pm

I'd love to see Two's fight against the Ravager.

As a note, I have my tanks AC at -10 to -18, have 4 tanks, Sarevok, a PC swashbuckler, a PC berserker, and a PC ranger. The swashbuckler has -18 AC and dies rather fast in the later battles. Berserker sometimes dies, but gets resurrected. Sarevok usually lives, but only because I make him run away a lot (he gets hit a -ton- with -10 AC). The ranger hasn't died yet I don't believe, other than against the Ravager. He took out my entire party, even after resurrecting several of them multiple times.

Have fun with that one, two

too bad it's so late in the game, you'll probably quit by then.. challenging battles, there were plenty for me, but I wanted my -entire- party to survive a battle. I resurrected them only once in ToB, however. And the final battle.. well, you'll have fun there too, I'm sure. I spent an hour doing it the first time, and still lost

[ 07-10-2001: Message edited by: Scott ]

Meerlight · Post by **Meerlight** » Tue Jul 10, 2001 4:28 pm

I just can't wait to see two's post on going through the last battle! I can imagine it now.....
"Hmmmm ok only these chumps. Casts all his blurs and destroys them. Ok I won! wait..... More battles? Ok rest.... What?!?!?! No rest? No blur? NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!"

Kyle Marksteiner · Post by **Kyle Marksteiner** » Tue Jul 10, 2001 7:05 pm

Doltan- I disagree- playing a solo sorc game and a full party game right now and having a lot more problem with the group- Why? because I can give whatever I want to the solo guy- poison immunity when fighting spiders, fire immunity when needed etc, so he has no achilles heel.

koz-ivan · Post by **koz-ivan** » Tue Jul 10, 2001 9:55 pm

hey guy's so far we've done a pretty good job keeping this thread spoiler free, remember two is still on his first run through, don't screw it up by telling two what is coming.

two · Post by **two** » Wed Jul 11, 2001 8:28 am

Hey everybody, thanks for the feedback!

I've been promised some brutal battles -- so I'm definately going to finish TOB!

I have no clue about el ravager or whatever is the big bad guy so please don't tip me off. Sorry, KODT reference there.

I am going slowly. I was so depressed by the game I almost got killed by a random maze spell. My magic resistance caught it or something, because I was still alive. but I kinda shook myself up and I'm feeling better now, I'm playnig defensive again.

BTW that pocket plane ability is super useful for taking naps durnig a dungeon...

Anyway I only got a little further. I whacked some drows outside a farmer's cottage, then this dude turned into a drow himself. I did the old blur+imp. haste+CromF and Cromeffed him. There was also a elder orb thing floating around, I hate those. I time trapped it and minced. Then I battled to the drow underground fortress or something. I whacked a bunch of drows and stuff, then went through a door or two or three. Finally a Lich. I was scared, got spell trap going, immunity to abjuration, etc. Then I ran up with Crom and Scarlet Ninja-to and in about 5 hits it was dead! I could not beleive my eyes, I don't know what happened. Maybe the poison killed it I have not a clue. anyway I got a skull thing, then went to my plane to build some weapnos from crap I gathered.

So far no weapon is better than CromF. However -- I built the improved axe that is vorpal 10% of the time. That was interesting. I went back to the drows, and decided to experiment. I used it some with the belt of fire giant stregnth -- sacrificing my lovely intertial barrier belt. I like how it "ghosts" baddies on a "vorpal" hit.

I then went to this screen that was insane. About 50! beserker things attacked, about 20 stood back and used crossbows. CromF is better vs. low level schmucks so I switched over. I was blurred and imp. hasted, about AC-20 and again -- nothing hit. the crossbow bolts I think are non-magical so can't damage me anyway. Took a LONG time to kill them all, I mean a LONG time. I had to redo imp. haste once! That NEVER happened before. Blur lasted though, it's at 3 round/level which is like...a long time I think.

Then I kept going, killed some lame little things, then got to an interesting fight! This fighter challenged me to a dual! I was like -- big deal. Well -- it was. I got into the ring and noticed my blur's were gone. And any new blur's were dispelled. Oops. Then I stepped up to the plate using greater evasion (AC -18) and this fighter guy hit me on his first strike, and I had to save vs. spell vs. something! I was like -- damn! I guess my stoneskins are gone too or something. This guy is nails! The guy was slow though so I ran in a cicle until I had some room, giving me a moment to get my act together. I put away Crom, grabbed the vorpal axe, and used the Simulacrum helm to make another me. I was plannnig on usnig the simulacrum as fodder while I magic-ed the fighter dead. So I told simmy to attack fighter. Fighter did NOT attack simmy back, he kept going for the original. Interesting. I got more space, and read a simulacrum scroll. Just barely got done before he was on me again. But now there are 3 me's, and he is only attacknig one. So I kept running around in a circle, while simmys kept pace with the fighter hacknig him. After about 7 hits one of the simmys went vorpal, bye bye fighter. Interesting and odd fight.

I rested some after this obscure event, then contniued on. I crunched some earth elementals into dust. I had a spell immunity abjuration going when I hit the prince elemental guy. I saw that he was trying to dispel magic a few times I think. I have no clue really, I was moving fast. He went down in about 7 hits, perhaps 5 rounds, I don't know if he hit me or not. No damage.

I then ran over with a spell trap to the other side, lured some baddies over, used neckale of power vs. the vampire, went back to harper's necklace for Ac boost, killed them. I hate beholder things, got out the shield of Balduron so I wouldn't have to think too hard.

Just finished slaughtering some illithids with Psion's blade. I hate just having 2 attacks a round, sucks. Next is the big one herself I think...tonight...

no deaths since the Watcher's Keep mazing...holding my breath...

Lews Therin · Post by **Lews Therin** » Wed Jul 11, 2001 8:54 am

Originally posted by two:

Then I kept going, killed some lame little things, then got to an interesting fight! This fighter challenged me to a dual! I was like -- big deal. Well -- it was. I got into the ring and noticed my blur's were gone. And any new blur's were dispelled. Oops. Then I stepped up to the plate using greater evasion (AC -18) and this fighter guy hit me on his first strike, and I had to save vs. spell vs. something! I was like -- damn! I guess my stoneskins are gone too or something. This guy is nails! The guy was slow though so I ran in a cicle until I had some room, giving me a moment to get my act together. I put away Crom, grabbed the vorpal axe, and used the Simulacrum helm to make another me. I was plannnig on usnig the simulacrum as fodder while I magic-ed the fighter dead. So I told simmy to attack fighter. Fighter did NOT attack simmy back, he kept going for the original. Interesting. I got more space, and read a simulacrum scroll. Just barely got done before he was on me again. But now there are 3 me's, and he is only attacknig one. So I kept running around in a circle, while simmys kept pace with the fighter hacknig him. After about 7 hits one of the simmys went vorpal, bye bye fighter. Interesting and odd fight.

Yeah, this fight was hard for me. My PC is a mage (a fighter with Greater Whirlwind would have been better). The beholder referee was casting True Sight while the drow was chopping me up. On my second try, I had boots of speed and Melf's meteors all ready to go and a bunch of potions of healing. I ran around a lot and pelted him with Melf's and periodically cast magic missles. I also had a spell trigger and minor sequencer loaded up, which I unloaded on him. I only got him down to injured and finally said f*** this when I ran out of Melf's, and did the Slayer change. That worked pretty well. The beholder was funny afterwords. The same one as in the shark city.

koz-ivan · Post by **koz-ivan** » Wed Jul 11, 2001 9:23 am

then got to an interesting fight!

well at least it's interesting (if not super tough)

Tharan · Post by **Tharan** » Wed Jul 11, 2001 9:39 am

The only interesting part to that fight was the funny beholder, the fighter was a little Wussy. I had a berserker so I went greater Whirlwing and hacked the little wussy elf bastard to pieces. He did pull off a smite on me but that's about all he had in him. Drow what a bunch of wusies. Just like elf exept not in the sun.
Go ahead two, maybe you'll have a little, empasis on little challenge later.

Lews Therin · Post by **Lews Therin** » Wed Jul 11, 2001 9:57 am

Originally posted by Tharan:
The only interesting part to that fight was the funny beholder, the fighter was a little Wussy. I had a berserker so I went greater Whirlwing and hacked the little wussy elf bastard to pieces. He did pull off a smite on me but that's about all he had in him. Drow what a bunch of wusies. Just like elf exept not in the sun.
Go ahead two, maybe you'll have a little, empasis on little challenge later.

Well, he's pretty tough to beat if your protaginist isn't a fighter and you don't know you have one-on-one ring fight coming up. My mage had no prep for single battle, no boots of speed, and no potions the first time (I didn't know that the single battle was coming and that I couldn't pass a potion to my mage if needed). When my blurrs were removed, this drow promptly removed my stoneskins and slaughtered me. Knowing what to expect it was still a challenge, and like I said earlier, I resorted to the Slayer change to finish him off. But you're right, I believe a Greater Whirlwind from one of my fighters would have finished this joker right away.

tlibro · Post by **tlibro** » Wed Jul 11, 2001 11:41 am

My main guy was a fighter using the vorpal axe and he croaked him on the first hit. I didn't have to do anything else. I guess I was pretty lucky. Two, please keep going on this game and keep posting the results. I'm very much enjoying reading this thread. You have great strategies. I'm learning quite a bit by reading about your adventure and I hope you continue all the way to the end. Good luck.

Tharan · Post by **Tharan** » Wed Jul 11, 2001 1:39 pm

hey tlibro, did you find a game a little bit too easy? ( No spoilers though, two is still not through with it.)

two · Post by **two** » Wed Jul 11, 2001 4:34 pm

Well, I'm done for a few days. I played abuot 2 hours more and that's it, I need time off.

I forgot to mention I upgraded Cernd's cloak at some point, got the much better Ranger's cloak. Helps cure my "hitting with the Scarlet Ninja-To" (off hand thatco bonus) problem as well as AC and saving throw boost.

Absolutely nothing touches the SN-To as an off-hand weapon. Why? Read below.

I continued on after pounding some mind flayers. I got to the "big bad woman herself," who had a totally silly cartoon image. I think her name was simian or something like that. I went into this circular room and she talked some -- I clicked randomly through this (as I did with almost all other dialogues). She wants to kill me, I'll kill her, grr whack whatever. Somebody pass me another fluffer-nutter.

I went into the room spelled up. I have come to like, very much, spell immunity - divination as well as spell immunity - abjuration. This keeps away dispel magic type things, as well as true sight which kills blur and inviso and stuff like that.

Anyway, as I recall I "killed" her in the middle of the room after a hit or something, then she said "I ain't done yet." Some monsters attacked me and 6 statues appeared around the room, one animate. I killed the monsters, then killed the simian statue. As soon as I killed it, I noticed the next statue came alive. 1 down, 5 to go. I killed about 3 more statues and then got concerned about my spells lasting that long. So I went into a corner -- one of those raised circles where I had already killed her, and after killnig statue 3 I let the excess monsters come to me. And then there was peace. The next animated statue was off screen somewhere. I ported out, rested, spelled up, ported back in. My plan was set. Kill all the statues except the last one, then do major prep before whacknig that one as I suspected all hell would break loose at that point.

No problem killing the statues, though it was dicey when 2 mages attacked me plus the simian statue. Spell trap and spell immunity sucked up the spells, I dished out the damage. And, of cousre, with spell trap you end up with a few extra blur's and skull traps after the attack...nice.

Ok just one statue left, all monsters dead. I port out and rest, then port back in. Still quiet, so I do the sensible thing: I use the simulacrum helmet. Then I lay down spike traps in a circle, using simmy's traps as well (as far as I dare to go, for after using invisibility I can see that the last statue is animated red and waiting for a sign that I'm around). Then I lay down some time traps, using simmy's traps as well. Then we both cast a bunch of skull traps just in case, but on one side givnig me room to get through and attack the last statue. Ok finally I got spelled up with immunities, haste, etc. as well as poor simmy, who attacked the statue a little ahead of me. She went down FAST with double Crom's whacking her. Then --

It was like world war three. simian-girl appeared in the middle of the room talking smack. A bunch of thugs/goons appeared out of nowhere (teleported in) and set off many traps at once. It was like mortar fire in there! spikes, skulls, and then in the middle of it all: absolute stillness. My simmy's time trap! I was frozen, only simmy could attack, so he attacked the simian-girl. Whack whack. Then my time trap went off, simmy is frozen but I'm not. Whack Whack. Between us whacking, spikes flying, it was a mess. She came out of the time trap and was good for abuot a round and suddenly said somethnig about twisting a ring: then Crom smacked her again and she was history, dead, finito.

Ok then I go to my portal where this thing makes me click through some dialogue before I get teleported back to pick up my loot. Pretty lame. Some stupid ioun stone not even as good as balduran's helmet. Wow.

Ok whatever. I cruise back, sleep, go to this other guy's place a dragon hold or something. I meet up with Daconis, then kill him, then he turns into a dragon. oops! Didn't expect that. I try to run away -- danm! That guy is fast! I can't run. I try invisibility -- he is true sighting. Don't have enough time for Spell Immunity -- divination. Finally I throw a golemn at him and a skeleton warrior. They last exactly .8 of a round, giving me time to RUN. I get to the edge of the stairs then port out as he is runnnig at me. Close call!

Lousy wyrm. I get spelled up with blur, immunities, spell trap, and for this serious fight: Tensor's. About 300 hps. 6 attack's a round. I choose the vorpal axe, does it work on a dragon?

I stride through. Here is where the sn-to really shone. I hit and this dragon seemed to always fail his poison/death save! Scarlet n-to always did 5 a round for 2 rounds...I don't know why. I hit and hit and noticed a vorpal hit. Ineffective vs. dragons. OK -- i switch back to old reliable. Hit and Hit. improved mantle goes away. Wyrm down to 50%. Hit more, wyrm really low. I'm at about 30% damage. Hit more, wyrm squirming. Then dead. Brute force, no offensive spells at all.

Same for the final dragon in this little dungeon. Very easy dungeon, but had to use the vorpal on this weredraco thing. Crom just could NOT do enough damage! it must regenerate abuot 50/round. Anyway I vorpaled it after a few rounds.

Rest ho hum. Beholders -- shield. Lizard men -- melee. Final dragon -- same as above, tensor's and much whacking. This was much closer -- I had to drink abuot 4 potions before I felt ok about my health during the fight -- but he went down eventually.

Got some useless 2 handed sword, and a flail head! That's good at least.

That's it, I'm off for a bit.

Scott · Post by **Scott** » Wed Jul 11, 2001 5:50 pm

How do you expect yourself to enjoy the game when you don't read any of the plot, don't even know the names of those you're killing, etc? Is all you're interesting in something that can kill you?

tlibro · Post by **tlibro** » Thu Jul 12, 2001 2:13 am

Originally posted by Tharan:
hey tlibro, did you find a game a little bit too easy? ( No spoilers though, two is still not through with it.)

Tharan,
Personally, I did not think TOB was too easy. I had several fights where one or more of my NPC's died. I had to reload a couple of times because one of them was blasted to bits and couldn't be resurrected. I didn't think it was overly difficult, but I certainly didn't think it was too easy. Of course, that's just my humble opinion.

two · Post by **two** » Thu Jul 12, 2001 5:58 am

Originally posted by Scott:
How do you expect yourself to enjoy the game when you don't read any of the plot, don't even know the names of those you're killing, etc? Is all you're interesting in something that can kill you?

If I read the plot I would end up laughing so hard I couldn't see straight.

If I want a more sophisticated plot than TOB, I'll turn on the television. If I'm really looking for a good plot, I'll read a book.

I just play TOB as a war game, it makes more sense to me like that.

Scott · Post by **Scott** » Thu Jul 12, 2001 8:58 am

And here I thought it was a Role-Playing Game.

mikeheitz · Post by **mikeheitz** » Thu Jul 12, 2001 9:15 am

Two,

Up until your battle against Sendai (that's the Drows name... not Simian...

I had a lot of respect for your strategies and ability. But now, I'm not so sure... I gues if I had portaled back to my little resting place 2 or 3 times during that battle, I could have gotten through without losing any of my party members... BUT WHY??? How unrealistic is it to portal out, rest, then come back and be in the same battle??? Sure, you CAN do it, and the game lets you... but WHY would you want to??? I think it's amazing you have only died once through the whole game, but with tactics like that, I'm suprised you have died at all.

Just my $.02

KaaZe · Post by **KaaZe** » Thu Jul 12, 2001 9:17 am

Two, I just want to thank you... After reading your story here, I NEVER EVER want to solo any BG and I find my self wondering why you arent playing a game like Diablo. You have absolutely no interrest in the plot, or other NPC's. I do not know if you have finished SoA with a party or not. But I think you would agree that SoA/ToB was build around solo play, I think thats why you find the game too easy. If I remember correctly, the toughest part of you journey was the start.. after that you have reached a very high level and over power enemies that where expecting a mid level character, not someone with your level. I have also read the journey on the Baldurdash page, where he solo's a mage though the game. His story sound alot like yours. Hard in the beginning, allmost a walktrough in the end. If you want to solo, why not just take a plain fighter through it, that should give you more of a challenge.. if not make it impossible. I am at the endning of SoA with a Bounty hunter/Fighter (Dual at level 10... should have waited for level 11... ohh well) and giving all my points in Halbreds and shot bows, that should make alot of good weapons not avaible to be before the latter part of the game. I find the game to be great fun and I love playing every battle again. But my point in this is, if my characters dies, the game ends. And playing as a fighter means you cant cast blur, spell immunity, stoneskin etc and this means that alot of fights are hard with out party members.

And remember Baldurs Gate I ToSC II ToB are ALL RPG (ROLE playing games), where you assume the ROLE of a Character as you go through a Story. Not a game about getting the best AC, finding "cheesy" combos and then complaining that the game is boring. If this is all you want to take from a game, I would stronly suggest Diablo II, Blizzard is doing everything they can to remove these "cheats" and the game is SOLO with very little plot/dialog.

I am not trying to offend you in any way, but if I have, please except my apology.