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Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 8:57 am
by GawainBS
galraen wrote:Not too early, maybe 15th to 20th level, and of course you can only do it if you know where everything is. So without a walk through, or being lucky, I imagine it's tough not to break the quest without even realising it exists. I did the first time I played by placing everything in my pack, one by one, in Torg's alter on my first trip to Tarrant.
You also have to be able to get to the other side of the mountain, so if you aren't a mage that means the legit way, or pickpocketing two teleport scrolls. To do that of courser you have to be either damned good at pickpocketing or use fate points.
Also of course you have to be albe to find the places you need to go to, even if you have a walk through you have to walk to them firt time you go, so I doubt it's possible to even start the questline below 15th level at the very least.
Most of the Arcane Warriors I've played haven't bothered with teleportation, it's not exactly necessary, and actually deprives you of experience points. Using teleport when you first play the game (without a walk through) is actually a mistake IMHO. There are a lot of places to discover that you'll never find if you teleport everywhere. I've only once even bothered with the colleges, and on that occasion I selected Force, as I was using it the most, totally wasted on conveyance IMHO.
Teleport is an awesome time saver. By a certain point, the random encounters become more of a nuissance than the meager XP is worth. Same goes for Divination: at a certain point, you don't know what to do with the points, and being able to skip going to the gipsies is great.
Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 9:23 am
by Crenshinibon
After I finished the game (yesterday) I was playing around with my technologist dwarf, that's where the numbers came from. I assume that they were doubled because that character had a technical aptitude of a hundred. My new character, who is magically oriented has the normal values however.
I didn't know that you could break the quest. I finished the game with only three blessings from the altars (though I've found much more of them, but didn't know what to give - and the one in Vendigroth flat out killed me.
)
What does YMMV stand for?
Can't you get to the other side of the mountains just by making a mad dash through Hardin's Pass?
I noticed that the inventories of merchants are tied to their chests. In theory, early on, couldn't use a fate point to open a chest belonging to one of the magick sellers in Tarant and then rest until you're all geared up?
Agree with GawainBS. Towards the end of my last playthrough, I had points just sitting there, unspent. I really had nowhere to put them. Although, after this run, I may try an aptitude-neutral character and attempt to go without putting any points into attributes, or as little as I can. I'll leave it to Therapeutics and the first line of elemental spells.
Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 10:15 am
by GawainBS
YMMV = Your Mileage May Vary.
The Ancient Gods quest needs you to do the blessings in a certain order, with several being done twice.
Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 10:47 am
by Crenshinibon
Ah. I see.
I remember a professor in Tarant giving me a book detailing the three circles of gods, though I didn't fully understand the diagram in there.
Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 12:22 pm
by galraen
Check the diagram on the wall in the University for more insight into the AG quest.
Can't you get to the other side of the mountains just by making a mad dash through Hardin's Pass?
If you can find it, yes. Or alternatively you can follow the coast north from the Gateway to the Wastes, yes, I have made that exceedingly boring and tedious trek! Some of us have too much time on our hands!
:laugh:
As I've mentioned before Gawain, after the first few times as an Arcane Warrior I found it pointless going that route, far too easy. Even when I did after the first time, I was playing as an Arcane Warrior/thief, so had more important things to spend my points on rather than waste them on conveyance spells. Especially as the first three spells are useless if you are building rogue skills, and the fourth one is broken!
Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 2:08 pm
by Crenshinibon
I only recently noticed that those weren't full circles! The first few times I looked at it, I couldn't figure out the order. :laugh:
The way you described seems to be the logical way to go, if you're going without the teleport scroll, if you're a technologist that is, so you can get the aforementioned schematics in Vendigroth.
How is the fourth Conveyance spell broken?
Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 2:49 pm
by galraen
Crenshinibon wrote:How is the fourth Conveyance spell broken?
It simply doesn't do what is says it does. For example in the Ancient maze there's a sword in an inaccessible room, the only way to get at the sword is to use Spatial Distortion, and it doesn't work. Doesn't do anything, nada, can't get much more broken than that!
Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 4:24 pm
by Crenshinibon
From my experience with the unofficial patch, the spell works, letting you jump around, but only to a point that you can see, so no jumping through walls or doors.
Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 5:02 pm
by galraen
Crenshinibon wrote:From my experience with the unofficial patch, the spell works, letting you jump around, but only to a point that you can see, so no jumping through walls or doors.
Which in my understanding isn't how it was supposed to work, and is actually quite useless.
Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 7:39 pm
by Crenshinibon
It could still have a purpose for an arcane warrior - if it gets you next to your target in less action points than it would to run to them.
But yes, I see what you're saying.
Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 12:46 am
by TwoHandedSword
Crenshinibon wrote:After I finished the game (yesterday) I was playing around with my technologist dwarf, that's where the numbers came from. I assume that they were doubled because that character had a technical aptitude of a hundred. My new character, who is magically oriented has the normal values however.
And in my post above, I came thisclose to pointing out that the discrepancy might be because you were playing a Dwarf; then I thought I was being a bit too wordy, so I deleted it.
Oh, and the altar in Vendigroth is SUPPOSED to kill you. But if you've followed the quest to the letter...
you're automatically resurrected. Better. Stronger. Faster.
And supposedly, even if you're at 100% Tech Aptitude. (But just in case, best to have a follower with Reanimator handy.
)
Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 1:00 am
by Crenshinibon
I was surprised at that. Neither the manual nor the forums mention this. I just though that the spell would fail outright. Then again, with good constitution, a technologist should be able to sustain it.
I'm confused about the re-animator part - isn't the game over once your character dies?
Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 2:47 am
by TwoHandedSword
Crenshinibon wrote:I was surprised at that. Neither the manual nor the forums mention this. I just though that the spell would fail outright. Then again, with good constitution, a technologist should be able to sustain it.
I'm confused about the re-animator part - isn't the game over once your character dies?
To clarify, the spellcasting and fatigue penalties have nothing to do with your character being a technologist, and everything to do with him being a Dwarf.
Basically, TA acts like magic resistance, except that it also affects beneficial spells. Even at 100%, you can cast and maintain spells; just not very effectively upon yourself. And IIRC, they have a percentage chance of failing anyway, same as with guns in the hands of a high-level mage.
And the part about the Reanimator was a joke; hence the wink. But when the steps are followed, the altar itself really does work that way:
you die, and are immediately resurrected with superior stats. What you're 'sacrificing' is your life, which is then returned to you in spades.
(End spoiler)
Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 1:07 pm
by Crenshinibon
So if I had a technologist half-elf at 100% Technological Aptitude, the Hasten spell would have a normal cost (3/10)? Or would it still be doubled due high technological aptitude?
What does TH stand for on the Bow of Ecclesiastes? How exactly does the "Magick Power Available" work? Also, I assume that the numbers in parenthesis are the maximum attributes of the item which I can only get at 100% magickal aptitude? So, on the aforementioned bow, the range is 15(+50), does this mean that at 100% aptitude the range will be 65? Does this mean that currently the range is 15 + (50 * .75) = 15 + 37.5 = 52.5?
Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 1:19 pm
by GawainBS
TH is To Hit. A flat bonus.
Magickal Power Available is indeed based on MA. In your example, 15 is the base damage, IIRC, while the (50) is the magic bonus and is subject to Magickal Power Available. So: 15 + 50*0.75, if MPowerA is 75%.
Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 1:31 pm
by Crenshinibon
Thanks for the prompt reply.
How is the Magickal Power Available calculated? My character's Magickal Aptitude is only 40. So this attribute is just a bonus towards hitting an opponent, right? I noticed that some weapons do not have this stat.
In your opinion, what is more valuable, AC or Defense? I happen to come across an Arcane Robe which makes my AC 29 and my Defense 72. However, I'm wearing Dread Armor, which makes my AC 70 and my Defense 60. However, the Arcane Robe gives me more damage resistance.
Also, is there any benefit to maxing out a weapon skill (bow in my case) after achieving Mastery (I haven't done that just yet). From my experience with a gunslinger, I think I had achieved Mastery with only three points in guns.
Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 2:02 pm
by GawainBS
No idea how MPA is calculated, only that it is linearily-dependant on MA.
IMHO, DR is more important. Force Screen should take care of most AC & DR needs, though. My advice: go for DR, but once you get to 40-50% without Force Screen, focus on AC and the other resistances.
Definitly worth maxing out a weapon, as that gives straight "to hit". The bonus of Mastery only comes into play if you manage to hit, after all.
Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 3:12 pm
by galraen
gawainbs wrote:imho, dr is more important
+1
Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 3:18 pm
by Crenshinibon
Alright then. Thanks. My defense is over a hundred with the Shield of Protection and all of my damage resistances are between fifty and seventy. Significantly lower without it.
Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 6:04 pm
by Crenshinibon
I'm amazed at how incredibly strong mages are! o.o At level nine, I was taking on level twenty opponents. I managed to get a lot of experience at the The Bangellian Deeps and managed to get all the way to level twenty.
In any case, as per TwoHandedSword's request, I have attached a screenshot.
This little guy has Mastery in Melee and knows two spells: Shield of Protection and Jolt. The floating numbers read around seventy damage a hit.