The Scarred Land of Hades

Siberys · Post by **Siberys** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:22 am

Siberys, you might have missed a question I have asked in so many posts, but I wanted to know if it is possible to choose for example a LA+2 race and split the bonuses over several levels (up to you to decide) so we could start as level 3, effectively treating the race as having LA+0? Or maybe some similar house rule ...

I answered it. I linked you to bloodlines, rules that actually allow that. 22 posts up.

malinzaro · Post by **malinzaro** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 9:19 am

Siberys wrote:I answered it. I linked you to bloodlines, rules that actually allow that. 22 posts up.

Ouch! Thank you for the heads up. I actually missed that post. I read about the bloodlines from SRD though I must admit they confused me a bit, especially the bloodline levels part.

I was actually thinking about the Savage Species rules for creating monster characters. Let me know what do you feel about them.

MistSonata · Post by **MistSonata** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 10:44 am

Let me see if I can explain it better...

The tier of bloodline you decide on (Minor, Intermediate, and Major) decides what your level adjustment is (LA+1, LA+2, and LA+3 respectively). It also determines when those level adjustments are implemented.

For instance, a Minor bloodline would only hold back your 12th level, per the chart, while a Major bloodline would hold your level back at 3rd, 6th and 12th levels. Here's a chart you can refer to if you're still lost.

| lvl | min | int | maj |
| 1st | 1st | 1st | 1st |
| 2nd | 2nd | 2nd | 2nd |
| 3rd | 3rd | 3rd | 2nd | Level Adjustment +1 (Major only)
| 4th | 4th | 4th | 3rd |
| 5th | 5th | 5th | 4th |
| 6th | 6th | 5th | 4th | Level Adjustment +1 (Intermediate and Major)
| 7th | 7th | 6th | 5th |
| 8th | 8th | 7th | 6th |
| 9th | 9th | 8th | 7th |
| 10th| 10th| 9th | 8th |
| 11th| 11th| 10th| 9th |
| 12th| 11th| 10th| 9th | Level Adjustment +1 (Minor, Intermediate, and Major)
| 13th| 12th| 11th| 10th|
| 14th| 13th| 12th| 11th|

Claudius · Post by **Claudius** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 11:06 am

Siberys,

I was thinking if this made sense:

"Profession (smuggler) 6 + 0 = 7
[Safe people/houses to hide? Information on availability and qualities of contraband (poison, drugs, outlawed), dirt on people, persuasion of users/collectors, geography of routes hiding places, language related to contraband, connections in the underworld]"

The thing is that its not really a skill as many other skills are. It doesn't reflect competency as a smuggler, but rather knowledge of the operation, how to obtain things, gossip, geography specific to smuggling, and slang relating to smuggling. Knowledge and familiarity with people in smuggling.

I understand that all of these are relative to the 6 pts and 3rd level that I am now. In other words I am just a low level operator.

But does it make sense for a profession to be mostly knowledge? It doesn't really seem to be knowledge X because he is not studying academically.

MistSonata · Post by **MistSonata** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 1:13 pm

Claudius, you may want to change your character sheet. You're using a D20 sheet for modern settings. You should use a D&D 3.5e sheet instead.

Unless you can foresee yourself making "Computer Use" or "Drive" checks.

Siberys · Post by **Siberys** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 1:16 pm

Profession (smuggler) 6 + 0 = 7

Umm...typo, right?

Anyway, that isn't how profession works.

Profession is the literal act of something and a proficiency in doing that. i.e. profession cook doesn't make you a good farmer, it makes you good at combining foodstuffs into a fancy meal.

Three skills that would coincide like this are as such-

Profession Smuggler- Educational training in the art of smuggling, how to smuggle and what common smuggled items and unacceptable smuggled items are.

Craft Smuggling- create hidden holes in walls, hidden compartments in bags or sacks, and create other things directly related to the act of smuggling.

Knowledge Smuggling- Knowledge of people, places, things, ideas, and methods for smugglers.

THAT is how it would work. In order to make this a career, you would need to have all three skills. With just profession, yes you have the ability to smuggle, but no more than the common fencer. You need the others to actually turn it into a job instead of a hobby.

So in summary, Profession is the training, craft is the action, knowledge is the understanding. All three are needed for an in-depth career in smuggling. Profession alone won't get you far.

Remember, all the knowledge skills presented in the players handbook are -examples- only. They are not the only type of knowledge skill and you can in fact make up one that is relevant to your character.

I've had characters in games before with Knowledge (Bad Jokes) as a skill, and I have no idea why. I played an Archivist once with Knowledge (Monstrous Anatomy) as a skill because my archivist was more into forensics.

Claudius · Post by **Claudius** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 1:52 pm

Thanks Siberys.. Really makes sense. In my vision I want to be sort of a guide who has in the past perhaps exchanged information with smugglers, for example he has knowledge geography and may have given information either for friendship or else for profit he has had some relationship to smugglers.

But his main aspect is the wilderness as a ranger. So to get to level 3 and afford equipment and room and board he has probably been a guard or scout in either legal or illegal operations. Perhaps even a tour guide and definitely a hunter.

I will keep the smuggling skill but I will change it to knowledge smuggling. Whether he has or hasn't done jobs for the thieves guild/smugglers I leave open to the campaign, but should the choice come up or if you wish to make that part of the ties in to the campaign my character is open to that.

Thanks for the tips. I'm editing my myth weavers character sheet rather than the post in this thread.

Siberys · Post by **Siberys** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 6:24 pm

I have yet to receive word from Rylais about gaming. If he doesn't respond tomorrow, I'm opening up the slot to anyone (whether it's Rylais at a later date or someone else).

I still need backgrounds from all characters except Claudius, and a character sheet from Malinzaro.

@Mal-

If you need any help, feel free to lemme know and I can point you along in the right direction. Sometimes just finding the appropriate class is hard, so if you're looking for something in particular but are unsure of what combination of Class/prestige class would work, just describe the kind of character you want and we can probably point you to some off hand.

EDIT:

@Claudius-

Your equipment calculations are still WAY off.

Small Light Mace +1 is 2305 gold. 5 Gold for the mace, 300 for masterwork, 2000 for the enhancement.

Bedroll and backpack is 2.1 gold, 2 gold and 1 silver.

Fishhook, Needle, Whetstone and Belt Pouch is 1.52 gold. 1 gold, 5 silver, 2 copper.

A winter blanket is 5 silver pieces, not 10. 10 Silver Pieces is also the equivalent of 1 gold.

An Empty Sack is 1 silver piece, not 2.

Ink, Inkpen, Parchment x10 and a Case Scroll is 11.1 gold, not 9 gold and 11 silver.

A waterskin is 1 gold, not 2.

A pint of oil is 1 silver, not 2.

I hate to be offensive, but where are you getting your information because you don't seem to be getting close to creating your character right. Are you looking at a 3rd edition book or something?

If so, please discard that, and use the D20SRD.org website as it has all the 3.5E material we use for free.

If not, then what is it? Please let me know if you're confused so I can help you, filling in arbitrary numbers is never the way to go and it kind of seems like that's what you're doing.

Claudius · Post by **Claudius** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 6:38 pm

Is it pretty much free game to sort of 'powergame' your character? For example I am a level 1 rogue 2 ranger. Now one level of shadowdancer is always quite tasty for anyone with high hide skill and sneak damage. On the other hand it can quite get to a point where you are just 'making a build' and have no consideration for 'being' a shadow dancer. In my example.

So any views on this?

If I were just building a character I would probably take ranger 3 shadowdancer 2 (darkvision), horizon walker 1 (fortitude save and hide bonus), rogue X.

That isn't too powerish but still the only reason I take shadowdancer is HIPS whereas I am not familiar with the history and roleplaying of a shadowdancer? It doesn't seem to fit my character who likes to be outdoors and is 'easygoing' rather than a man of mystery...

For that reason although I am VERY tempted to get the nice HIPS I don't really want to.

Some of my assumptions are based on not playing role playing games but rather participating in a crpg builders guild in which the MO was to find the right fit between feats classes etc like putting together a puzzle. For me it was creation and for those who had more experience pvp it was even to the extent of optimization and testing.

Siberys · Post by **Siberys** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 6:43 pm

I have nothing against multiclassing into various classes and prestige classes for powergaming purposes. However, remember that all prestige classes in the game require you to find a master to teach you their ways, and they may have certain rules you must follow and certain quests you must do to get said prestige classes.

Also, see my above post for an edit for more corrections on your character sheet.

Claudius · Post by **Claudius** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 6:49 pm

I do apologize. I had found the weight limit and I reduced some of the items, but I forgot to change the costs in a corresponding manner. Some of the errors I can't explain and I do apologize. I will double check. I have been reading quite a bit trying to catch up to the standard of play, reading the karnik thread to get an idea of how a game works. I will doublecheck and do some reading of the d20 site.

Siberys · Post by **Siberys** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 6:50 pm

Fair enough, I just want to be sure your character sheet is correct is all.

Claudius · Post by **Claudius** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 6:54 pm

Yeah I know we just want to have things go smoothly. Go easy on me I haven't played a roleplaying game other than crpgs. Are those roleplaying?

What may look sloppy or startlingly off to me seems to be quite natural in trying to adopt a totally new game in a matter of days. I will keep working on it until it is ready.

Siberys · Post by **Siberys** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 6:58 pm

No I apologize. It can just be frustrating is all and I shouldn't take it out on new players.

Regardless, your character sheet is about finished thankfully. If you want a refresher course in how the D20 system works with 3.5, you should play Neverwinter Nights 2. It's fairly accurate rule-wise.

Siberys · Post by **Siberys** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:31 pm

Small update.

Kozeph is taking the 6th slot if Rylais doesn't show up tomorrow.

So, regardless of whether it's Rylais or Kozeph, ALL slots have been taken and I will not be accepting more players.

Claudius · Post by **Claudius** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 9:31 pm

Siberys, if its all right I fixed something and made two changes on my character sheet. I fixed survival, I had given myself a 2 pt synergy from search but I read that it was only to be applied for following tracks. For the other changes I read that I needed 1 rank in skills which list 'trained only' to even attempt.

Fix
survival removed synergy from search which only applies to tracks Edit fixed addition of geography synergy which only applies situationally..

Edit: other things to note so you can double check me. I gave a misc bonus to ac from dodge. +2 listen, climb, and move silently from halfling. +4 hide from small. +1 AB from small. +1 AC from small (that might have been automatic for the sheet).

Change
added 1 pt open lock which is trained
added 1 pt tumble which is trained

Siberys · Post by **Siberys** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 9:34 pm

According to your character sheet, you've spent 57 skill points now. You only have 56 so you'll need to lose a point.

Otherwise, changes are fine until the game starts.

Claudius · Post by **Claudius** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 10:38 pm

Fixed. Sorry about that, I swear I need to be more careful, I had thought that I accounted for that!

A couple questions Tumble :: d20srd.org how is the 15 DC any different from the 25 DC? For tumbling by with no attack of opportunity?

With the knowledge language skill how many ranks does it cost to learn another language? I didn't understand that.

malinzaro · Post by **malinzaro** » Thu Jun 16, 2011 12:16 am

Siberys wrote: @Mal-

If you need any help, feel free to lemme know and I can point you along in the right direction. Sometimes just finding the appropriate class is hard, so if you're looking for something in particular but are unsure of what combination of Class/prestige class would work, just describe the kind of character you want and we can probably point you to some off hand.

I wanted to play something massive that is good at controlling the battlefield. So I was thinking I either need a few or all (best case!) of the following:
- great AC
- natural armor
- DR
- self-healing
- spells that improve survivability in the heat of the fight (like blur/displacement, mirror image, haste etc.)
- large HP pool (good CON or higher HD)
- intimidate
- large size or reach weapons

The dread necromancer/necropolitan would have helped in having the self-healing, DR and HP, plus some nice spells to go with. The alignment would have been a problem somehow though.

Since I don't enjoy lawful good either paladin or crusader are off. This classes would cover most of my needs, but zealots are not my flavor.

Lately I was thinking that either the minotaur from Savage Species or some orog from Races of Faerun would make suitable characters. Coupled with the feral template? Perhaps starting as a low LA race and adding the draconic/half-dragon/dragonkin templates from Races of the Dragon/Draconomicon on top of it would be good. Barbarian class, maybe coupled with some sorcerer to qualify for prestige class rage mage? I think it would fit the theme. I would enjoy the progression from Savage Species more than the bloodline which I find somewhat weak for the brute I have in mind

Suggestions?

Edit: Half-golem or perhaps even Monster of Legend templates from Monster Manual II also look interesting, though maybe a bit over the board

Siberys · Post by **Siberys** » Thu Jun 16, 2011 7:34 am

Psiforged Psychic Warrior. (Psiforged- magic of eberron page 40)

Sun Elf Wu-Jen.

Any Race Dragon Shaman.

All of those would make good battle field controllers. As for the whole "Giant" thing, there's this from Pathfinder-

Simple Template: Giant (CR +1) - Pathfinder_OGC

Essentially, you take this and get a +1 level adjustment to become one size category larger for your race. This doesn't give you just a simple +2 strength and -2 dexterity, it increases your ability scores as if you were a monster as opposed to an enlarged normal person.

So, using this-
Improving Monsters :: d20srd.org

You would gain a +8 to strength, -2 to dexterity, and a +4 to con. Slap that on top of a psiforged psychic warrior and you'd basically be a psychic half-golem battlefield dominator.