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I know I am new to the topic, and I dont mean to presume upon your great wisdom...but what are the strategic ramifications of Giant kin using the aforementioned techniques, only with goblins and lesser creatures, as a counter to dwarves being tossed at them? Wouldnt you think the vast numbers of readily available tossed goblinkin fodder would make up the difference for the quality of dwarven throwers? Also their have been experiments with exploding kobolds that have proven extremely effective at close range.I dont know if exploding kobolds could counter the advantage of exploding dwarves but it might make for interesting discussion.

Amateurs! You're all a bunch of amateurs!

Here on Krynn (my homeworld), we perfected the art of Dwarven Throwing to the point where we no longer resort to using dwarves and gnomes for fire missions batterys. No siree, we use Kender! That's right, the "merry thieves of Krynn" are also the best type of projectiles in the known multiverse, either for single shot effect or grapeshot fire. Kender require no ballista, side-slingers or catapults for launching. Gnome engineers from Mount Nevermind have discovered that one may throw a kender twice the distance of any dwarf (and three times that of any gnome), by means of their long topknots. The actual formula is D=KMxV squared, where KM (Kender mass) may be substituted for DM (Dwarf Mass) or GM (Gnome Mass) in circumstances of increasing rarity. If said Kender curls up into a ball during flight, V (velocity) and D (Distance) are then trebled relative to each other.
Moreover, Kender who volunteer as ammunition are given gemstones imbued with "Delayed Blast Fireball" spells. The destruction incurred by this practice facilitated the end of the Dragonlance Wars. Paladine, however, prohibited this method of warfare shortly afterwards.

@ KensaiRyu: Sure, it may seem that goblins and kobolds would work better than said dwarves, but they are often scrawny and feeble due to the constant abuse they endure from the giants, and so have less power upon impact, and are not nearly as intimidating as the sight of flaming drunken dwarf, or a halfling singing love songs while flying towards you.

@ EMINEM: Kender may fly well, but they are more easily distracted than even the most halflingy halfling in the Realms! Overcoming this is a virtually impossible task, though their lack of a fear of death would make them useful as Kamikaze Warriors of Death (tm). (Patent pending)

Kobolds and Goblin-kin are indeed scrawny, but what I was trying to say was they vastly outnumber the dwarves being thrown at them (for every one dwarf thrown, five to ten goblin-kin could be tossed their way), does this have no bearing on the possible outcome of battles?

i get your point ken but wouldn't the old svart(sp) be larger(no wind change) physco, kamikazi nature and groups make them better than BOTH????

I am also rather new to this but it seems to me that it is not the numbers thrown that makes the difference but the quality of the said thrown migit. Dwarves due to their rigid training and robust nature arive barraling into their enemies at great speed,attacking with deadly efficiency using their axes. Goblins,Xvarts,kobolds etc. have had no such training and in anyevent much spindlier and generaly weak. considering the throwing action of any giant worth his salt is going to hard enough to break the neck of any goblin or kobold he throws. the giant might just as well throw boulders as they are generaly more arodynamic, accurate and do more damage.

this also shows why dwarves are more devastating than their halfling and gnmome breathren. in that Dwarves due to their serious nature take throwing very seriously and devote much time to it. while halflings and gnomes veiw it as somwhat of a joke, fun and useful, and a great trick at parties but not to be taken to seriously.

In the world of migit throwing quality will outshine quantity every time

no no no, the svart is has the enough(under dwarf and over kobold/goblin weight , no more plummiting dwarves!!!) have a size that fits into the container(like a halfling) and have such a physco nature they needNOtraining!!!

Let's examine the facts.

During the famous but short-lived Elf Clone Wars (when the lords elfed those that elfed themselves), the Dark Elf forces led by Schlemerei Quintus used their secret weapon, a contingent of Dark Gnomes. These were the famous Black Pimple Batatllion, a group of extremely short people with bad adenoids who skulked around and muttered imprecations at anyone who came within viewing distance. (They also poked fun at anyone who limped, which was considered in extremely bad taste, and made them very popular.)

Meanwhile, the Elves, under the banner of the Lady Lightwing Greenhosiery, had acquired a troop of Dwarven throwers. It was hard to believe at the time, but these particular Elves had made a deal with the Dwarves, offering several Elven maidens to...wait upon the latter, at their convenience. The Dwarves, who had been down in the mines for more than six months, took cold showers and readily agreed.

Now, it must be understood that there were only eight Dwarves in the troop, while there were twenty-three Gnomes with the Dark Elves. The Dwarves were armed with axes, rum kegs, and flaming shish-ka-bobs, and to make matters worse for the enemy, in case any of the flames went out en route, the meat on the shish-ka-bobs was fried liver. The Gnomes spun rotten fish at the end of spiked leather whips. They also wore black leather pants, deliberately scuffed boots, and tattoos advising the Elves to give up. It was too, too hideous.

The results are a matter of record. While some twenty-five Elves were seriously injured by the Gnomes, *a total of one hundred and twelve Dark Elves were put out of action or killed by the Dwarves.* These are facts, compiled by the Red Lemiscule, whose impartiality on the battlefield and desire to help all wounded has been noted time and again.

This isn't meant to denigrate the efforts of the Gnomes, or those who used them. I frankly agree with Sherman (Dr. Hieronymous Bosch Sherman, Gnomish Professor Emeritus of History and Good Hair at Schwul University in Ubersetzig, Gewindenhaus) that the fish probably weren't as rotten as they could have been; and there's much to be said for Lee's argument (Sonstenveldt Lee, Doctor of Thinkology-at-Large) that the Elves produced a greater surprise because until this time they always received battle before giving it.

But it must be said that the results conclusively prove Gnomes as an airborne force are good, but just not as good as Dwarves on a testesterone high. There's no way around it. None at all.

You people are sick. Throwing dwarves, halflings and gnomes. What kind of inhumane people are you? I am from the OSPATR (Organization of Small People's Anti-Throwing Rights) and you nedd to stop this innocent hurling of the verticaly challenged. If said throwing does not stop OSPATR will have to take relatitory measures to make sure that munchkins have their rights heard and obeyed.

@fable: Have you forgotten to include or are you trying to avoid the topic of biological warfare (banned in the Ailing Gnome Treaty of 1211)? The use of thrown midgets in varying states of illness is not often discussed, but is certainly a common tactic.

I hate to be the one to inject morality into a hearty debate, but I fear that unless properly addressed this concern could spell the end of DT as an accepted method of combat.

Anglachel asks:
Have you forgotten to include or are you trying to avoid the topic of biological warfare (banned in the Ailing Gnome Treaty of 1211)? The use of thrown midgets in varying states of illness is not often discussed, but is certainly a common tactic.

What's generally forgotten about the Ailing Gnome Treaty (see A.P. Wier's "The Ailing Gnome Treaty, and Other Aspects of Community Singing") is that the Gnomes in question were liberally toasted by Halflings prior to the Battle at Hassan ben Sobar Oasis. (This is the battle where the Halfling general Corntoes Stumpfoot uttered the famous line, "What in the name of the seven hells are all those penguins doing here?" after consuming singlehandedly a barrel of Halfling Chocolate Malt Hops.) Consequently, the Gnomes were thrown at the enemy under a mistaken assumption of perfect health, *which their health certificates, received before the feast, support was the case.* As such, it is obviously the Halflings' fault, rather than that of the belligerents on other side of the conflict. Simply put, Halflings and consumables don't mix in a battle situation.

What is more, there has never been a recorded instance of a dwarf who agreed to be thrown without first voluntarily enlisting. Dwarves are notoriously picky litigants, and no dwarf has advanced into the arms or catapults of battle before first striking a deal that is (usually) very agreeable to the dwarf.

I will be most willing to discuss this matter at length, if anybody cares to refute my proofs.

Are the so called inlisted dwarves fully informed as to what the throwing process involves and the possible side affects of of being hurled at the opposing force. What methods did you use to test the throwing process. Testing on small people is against the laws of interkindom wepons development. I look forward to your replys concerning theses grave injuries to the all of small height.

*Bump*

I have already posted upon this subject. To quote:

It takes many, many long years to perfect a dwarven thrower. The dwarf has to go through a great deal of training, beginning (at a very young age) with running, head-on, repeatedly, into solid walls. They have to be willing to be thrown off small cliffs, and to be flung, swung around, and battered to little purpose.

Then, after some 50 years or more of training, the dwarven thrower is ready to be tested. They are called before a select committee of elderly dwarves known as the Chasarii, or Those Who Have Been Thrown, or, in the venacular, Been There, Done That. They are placed in a giant catapult, and shot off in a random direction.

If the dwarf survives, they become a thrower. If they survive and damage an elf or gnome in the process, it is considered good luck, and they are thenceforth allowed to wear a small bronze medal and carry a special amethyst decoder ring. But if they die, the dwarven thrower wannabe is gathered from a variety of places and shoveled into a great tomb, where his or her predecessors lie, their spirit commended to the gods of all dwarves, everywhere.

For truly, dwarven throwers cannot be made. They can only be born.

Now, before a dwarf can even consider becoming ammunition, they have to answer all the questions on a famous test, known, in typically imaginative dwarven fashion, as The Dwarven Ammunition Test. Here, verbatim, are several of the questions:

Why do you want to be hurled at any enemy?

Have you ever had any diseases which could permanently affect your constitution and/or sense of balance?

Are you willing to undergo rigorous training over a period of years, for scant reward, so that you can sacrifice your life in ranged attack at an enemy?

Have you given this a lot of thought?

No, really. Have you?

Do you have a will prepared with a designated beneficiary, should your flight as ammunition during battle end in glorious destruction to both the enemy and yourself?

Are you now, or have you ever been, an elf?

--Having answered these questions, the ammunition wannabe dwarf is then subjected to an extensive psychological screening process. They are put through a battery of tests such as image association. ("What does this flaming shish-ka-bob look like?" "A flaming shish-ka-bob." "Good! You'll do.") Mental toughness is not neglected, either, in the evaluation procedure. Dwarves are commonly forced to work in a software retail chain's customer relations department and answer phonecalls for three days. ("My copy of BG2 doesn't work 'cause you left out the second disk, and no, I don't have a receipt! What are you going to do about it, jerk?")

While all this may seem harsh, it must be remembered that it functions as a weeding out process. Those who do not make it through the tests are sent to recover in the comparative peace and harmony of a mineshaft. Those who succeed are then trained carefully for many years, after the manner described above.

I trust this answers your question, and that we will not have anymore bleeding heart reactions against the career of dwarven thrower. Once again, a dwarven thrower is in charge of their own destiny. They are Called by fate, but each must decide whether to answer the call or ignore it. No one forces a dwarf to become ammunition, just as no one forces you, or anybody else, to work at a MacDonald's. It is merely a case that some deliver death in flight, while others serve it in a paper bag. Such are the perils of vigilantly maintaining freedom.

[ 05-06-2001: Message edited by: fable ]

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