Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 11:56 am
Willy, I will let slide...I'm pretty sure he is kin to Freddy from Elm Street.Originally posted by Gwalchmai
Or they might be a fictional Scottsman....(note the date)
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Spanish political upset
Page 5 of 5
Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 2:00 pm
RT, I know critisizing The USA has been fashionable since decades. I also know, from reading your posts, that you're proud of your country and that you often feel the need to defend the (actions of the) USA... and that you're sometimes tire of doing that.
That's why I want to make it clear to you I'm NOT Americabashing. I'm not 'against America' at all.
You may not know this (because Holland is such a small country and doesn't have a lot of influence) but the Dutch government has backed the US both in the first and second Gulf war. So when I question the reasons for starting those wars, I'm not just critisizing the US, I'm critisizing ALL governments involved.
That's why I want to make it clear to you I'm NOT Americabashing. I'm not 'against America' at all.
You may not know this (because Holland is such a small country and doesn't have a lot of influence) but the Dutch government has backed the US both in the first and second Gulf war. So when I question the reasons for starting those wars, I'm not just critisizing the US, I'm critisizing ALL governments involved.
Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2004 10:50 am
I've been waiting for someone to say what I think about all this better than I can, and I found it! The inimitable Jane Galt:
This applies whether or not the Spanish people were attempting to appease Al-Qaeda in their vote. Bloggers on the right have been too quick to throw accusations of cowardice; it seems more likely that the PP shot themselves in the foot by trying to hang the attack on ETA. But bloggers on the left have spent far too much time trying to psychoanalyzing the Spanish voter, spinning delicate arguments about fine distinctions of intent. This is totally irrelevant. It doesn't matter what the Spanish voters were thinking when they threw the PP out, because Al-Qaeda is going to interpret the results in the way most favourable to itself, especially in the fundraising and recruiting drives that will be key to staging more results. Anyone who has worked at any medium-sized organization knows that when a big project comes off, precious few moments are devoted to debating whether it was the result of The Master Plan, or serendipity. Even less will the raw recruits who will be expected to carry out the bombings, or donors who will be expected to finance them, be encouraged to think about how effective they really were. Since most of those donors and recruits live in countries with tightly controlled media, they won't have much counterweight to Al-Qaeda's most compelling argument: terror works.
Read the whole thing.
The inimitable Jane Galt:This applies whether or not the Spanish people were attempting to appease Al-Qaeda in their vote. Bloggers on the right have been too quick to throw accusations of cowardice; it seems more likely that the PP shot themselves in the foot by trying to hang the attack on ETA. But bloggers on the left have spent far too much time trying to psychoanalyzing the Spanish voter, spinning delicate arguments about fine distinctions of intent. This is totally irrelevant. It doesn't matter what the Spanish voters were thinking when they threw the PP out, because Al-Qaeda is going to interpret the results in the way most favourable to itself, especially in the fundraising and recruiting drives that will be key to staging more results. Anyone who has worked at any medium-sized organization knows that when a big project comes off, precious few moments are devoted to debating whether it was the result of The Master Plan, or serendipity. Even less will the raw recruits who will be expected to carry out the bombings, or donors who will be expected to finance them, be encouraged to think about how effective they really were. Since most of those donors and recruits live in countries with tightly controlled media, they won't have much counterweight to Al-Qaeda's most compelling argument: terror works.
Read the whole thing.
Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2004 11:14 am
To believe that the Spanish voters rejected their current government because they were scared of Al Qai-da is frankly based on ignorance.
Many Spanish people were disgusted when the government cynically tried to use the tragedy for election purposes. The going government denies it but it looks like they maintained it was Eta in the face of overwhelming evidence for purely political purposes.
It is similar to Bush?s campaign showing the coffins of 9/11 victims as a background to his election commercials.
I Spain the tragedy was more recent and so the reaction was stronger or maybe the Spanish are more sensitive to that kind of exploitation. What ever the reason the reaction was wholly justified in my opinion.
The electorate spoke - and what Al Qai-da makes of it is neither here nor there. If we start making political decisions based on what a bunch of religious nutters might think we are really in trouble ? **** - we already are in trouble.
Many Spanish people were disgusted when the government cynically tried to use the tragedy for election purposes. The going government denies it but it looks like they maintained it was Eta in the face of overwhelming evidence for purely political purposes.
It is similar to Bush?s campaign showing the coffins of 9/11 victims as a background to his election commercials.
I Spain the tragedy was more recent and so the reaction was stronger or maybe the Spanish are more sensitive to that kind of exploitation. What ever the reason the reaction was wholly justified in my opinion.
The electorate spoke - and what Al Qai-da makes of it is neither here nor there. If we start making political decisions based on what a bunch of religious nutters might think we are really in trouble ? **** - we already are in trouble.
Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2004 6:37 pm
Originally posted by Morlock
I just saw that episode again last week. Although I love the great French teacher joke from this season more.
I remember a Simpsons bit where all the kids in French class are giggling and the teacher tells them "Uh, uh! En français!" And they all start doing an exagerated haughty French laugh.
Yesterday's South Park also had a great war related joke: "The polls right now show that 51% of Americans think Saddam has to be dealt with, while 49% are wimpy tree-hugging p*ssies."