GameBanshee Forums

lemme work on it, ok?

If you give me a few days, I'll have it monday I hope. I'll send a PM to keep the forum from being clogged

Alright, sounds good. If you come up with something you can't get done, that's fine, I'll adjust/do it for you. I just figured you have the know-how those two didn't and could adjust things to your liking rather than my guessing again.

Don't be afraid to get creative with the equipment and what-not. Just in case you don't feel like digging for gold value of the equipment you should be limited to, aim for 27,000 for your level. If you go a bit over, don't worry about it but that way, you're free to create some personalize magic item's if you wish to.

Oh, don't worry about it, if you post it in here, it won't end up getting deleted by mistake from my inbox when I clean it out and I can dig for it if I need it later.

Rogue3/Sorcerer6
Human, Male, CN
Name: Jakal
Last Name: (like hes important enough to have one)

Hp: 51
Str 10
Dex 16 (+3)
Con 14 (+2)
Int 12 (+1)
Wis 10
Cha 18 (+4)

Init: 3 + 4 = +7
AC 10 + 3 + 2 + 1 = 16 (touch 15, flat footed 13)
BAB +5 melee 5 + 0 = +5 range 5 + 3 = 8
F 3 + 2 + 2 = 7
R 5 + 3 + 2 = 10
W 6 + 0 + 2 = 8

Weapons

MW Short sword 1d6 19-20/ x2 P Sm +6
MW Light Crossbow 1d8 19-20/x2 P M +10
MW bolts x 20
MW Dagger 1d4 19-20/x2 P T +6

Armor: none (maybe one day something without spell failure)

Spellpoints: 50

Known Spells
L0 x 7
detect magic, read magic, open/close, prestidigitation, message, light, mending
L1 x 4
magic missile, mage armor, magic weapon, charm person
L2 x 2
Blur, Darkvision
L3 x 1
Fly

Skills: rogue is L1
rogue skill points: 8 + 1 int + 1 human = 10x4 = 40 + 10 = 50
sorcerer skill points: 2 +1 +1 = 4 x 6 = 24
total 74

Appraise 6+1+3=10, Bluff 6+4=10, Disable Device 6+3=9, Hide 7+3=10, Move Silently 6+3=9, Open Lock 6+3=9, Search 6+1=7, Sense Motive 6+0=6, Spot 7+0=7(9 alertness), Listen 7+0=7(9 alertness)

Concentration 6+2, Knowledge (Arcana) 6+1, Spellcraft 6+1

Feats:
L1: Improved initiative
H: Silent Spell
L3: Extend Spell
L5(bonus): Still Spell
L6: Arterial strike (complete warrior)
L9: heighten spell
Rogue feats:
Trapfinding, Evasion, sneak attack 2d6, trap sense +1

familiar raven, language common
HP: 23 AC: 10 + 2 + 2 + 3 = 17
Str: 1
Dex: 15
Con: 10
Int: 8
Wis: 14
Cha: 6 At: claws +4 (1d2 - 5)
Improved evasion, share spells, emphatic link, deliver touch spells, speak with master, grant alertness, speaks one language, grant +3 appraise

speaking common and draconic

MW shortsword, MW light crossbow, 20 MW bolts
Wand of magic missile (3rd lvl caster, full charges), wand of knock (20 charges), cloack of resistance (+2), Bracers of Armor (+2), amulet of natural armor (+1), dust of tracelessness x 2, bag of holding, necklace of fireballs (type IV).
cure mod. wounds x 5, potion of blur x 2, potion of darkvision x 4, potion of tongues x 2
Scrolls:
featherfall x 2, shield x 2, locate object x 2, mage armor x 2

Normal equipment:
backpack (duh)
bandoleer (holds max 8 items: 1 dagger, 2 potions of c. mod. wounds, 1 dust of tracelessness, scroll of featherfall, deck of cards (very important), flask = 7/8),
basic fire, sleeping and eating stuff (dagger is knife) and wetstone, thieves tools, set of travelers clothes (now wearing), set of 'city' clothes (stored in bag of holding, small flask with 'spirits' (to keep the spirits high, if its allowed, stored in bandoleer).
*FR campain setting book

Can you go ahead and describe the psyonic classes, I'd be interested in those.

I'll join if you tell me how this works in detailed way. And does it take much time? I'm familiar both with Dragonlance and D&D. I've read many of the Weiss/Hickmann books, allthough this was many, many years ago. I'm not that familiar with 3ed D&D rules though.

Private mail sent.

Hey, is there some kind of god of magic in dragonlance? If I'm in deep trouble, at least I know who to beg for help (even if (s)he doesnt listen - help your self and you are being helped) or who to blame. And its fun irritating anyone else by religious remarks and stuff after all, I am deeeeeply religious.

And if there's no god(dess) of magic, what kind of gods are there?

Just got home, Jaypee, sent you a PM back.

I got another site that details the game rules for you guys, this one includes psionic's and some things the last one doesn't have on it. You can find the rules, spells, races, a ton of things for the normal game. Still don't have a site with the rules for the Dragonlance setting I can find though.

http://www.d20srd.org/

@Oskatat, there are three gods of magic. If you are neutral your god would be Lunitari, god of neutral mages and patron of the Order of the Red Robes (same goes for you Blake). Nuitari is the god of the Black robes and evil mages (that's you DZ). The third god of magic for good mages is Solinari, but no one as of yet is good in the party.

Your character looks great, nothing too powerful, just a lot of minor magical items so that works out well. Since I'll not worry about food and water unless I need to make it a specific plot point at some time for some reason, I won't bother counting that ring against you so the bag of holding and necklace are both ok.

The only thing I'll add in is the Spell Points. I decided to use that system, as I simply like the flexibility of it and prefer it myself. You have 38 spell points as of now. Since you are already a sorcerer, any spell known can be cast at any time, until your points are gone for the day. Resting brings them back to full, just like when you rest and rememorize your spells and what not normally. The breakdown of Spell Level:Spell Point ratio is this:

Spell Level:Spell Points
0:0 (you get 3+ Spell related ability modifier uses per day free; if you want to use an extra 0 level spell, 1 spell point per use as a 1st level spell)
1:1
2:3
3:5
4:7
5:9
6:11
7:13
8:15
9:17

Treat metamagic as normal, as in modify spell level by feat, then check level and spell point cost. (For example, casting a 2nd level spell with empower (Blake and DZ have this I think, would be a 4th level spell and cost 7 SP, while Oskatat using both his metamagic feats on a second level spell would be the same, and on his spell Fly would by a 5th level and cost 9 SP). You also get 3 uses/day, for free for each of your metamagic feats, as in no modifier to cost which was just mentioned above. Kind of encourages use of the feat and since it's a party of mages, there may be times you need that without the normal fighter support for tanking and such.

I don't require you to keep a running count of spell points marked on posts, if that helps you to know where you stand, feel free to do so. I'll simply guage spells cast and try keeping a tally in my head for each person. If it goes over, your spells fail until you rest again. If I think you are close to using your points up, I'll try to remember to reread the posts, tally the spent points up and note how much you have left in one of my posts as a notice.

I can't think of anything which needs to be changed on your sheet, and that's good to have a more utility based spellcaster. You can buff the other's while they fight. If you do feel the need to alter the spell list, let me know before we start up again and that's fine but after that, I'll follow the rule of allowing you to switch up 1 spell per level gained in your sorcerer class (dropping one for another). You've got the spells and feats to get around thing's but just one for damage so if you're fine with that great, if not adjust it before that starts up. It could make for some interesting strategies if everyone works together with the spells each character has to suppliment each other.

If there's any other question's or comments let me know, and as of now, there are three player's, with Jaypee considering to join. If it stays as three, I'll allow the Gestalt character alterations I mentioned before, if more join, you'll have enough to do what's needed as standard character's in your group, leaving you with 4 character's, each of which nearly twice as strong as normal character's would be quite unbalanced I think. Sound fair enough?

@magrus

well, the gods dont seem to be 'my kind of person'. Any other interesting gods? one for rogues and stuff, or a more sorcerer based one?

I get the spell point system, I think, but I have a few questions:
1 can I use meta megic feats to extend a spell above a "normal" spell slot I have? like making a lvl 3 effective lvl 5? if yes, sweeeet .
2 by allowing the wizard class the same freedom of choice as a sorcerer in casting spells, isnt the wizard more powerfull?
a wizards has more spells available and gains extra feats.
A sorcerer only had the advantage in not having to prepare spells thus being able to react more creative, in a limited way, combined with slightly more spell slots.

Will sorcerers also be able to learn more spells to compensate? Or am I plain wrong?

@all => my role in the party
I can let others sneak or sneak myself. Since I am the best sneak, my spells are most usefull on ME (Jakal is a bit vain, cha 18 ). Most spells enhance mobility or comunication.
So we got the most important person, the sneak and scout (me) with mercantile skills, the body building draconic mage with people skills, and the big cannon/buffing mage with education. All we need is a healing/buffing mage/cleric/whatever with emmm, tracking?.... right?

There is a chaotic evil deity of treachery and assassins name Hiddukel, would that suit you more? There aren't any sorcerer deities.

1. You don't get to increase the spells effective level by applying a metamagic feat unless you get the Heighten Spell feat. What I meant was if you took the spell Fly, a 3rd level spell and did Still and Silent on it, it would then cost you the same as a 5th level spells with the level adjustements for using those two feats. (3+1+1=5th level, 5th level=9 SP).


2. No, the Spell point system takes that into account. The wizard class still has to "memorize" their spells from the ones in their spell book. If they normally would be able to cast 4 1st level spells/day as a wizard, they can only "memorize" those 4 spells, however they can use any of the spells they know as often as they want until their SP runs out. Sorcerer's gain the most SP per level, allowing more spells cast/level, yet still only know a set number of spells.

Although, I did change things to make it so Blake doesn't have to hand me a spell list everyday. Simply has a limit on spells per level, if he can cast 5 2nd level spells per day, as soon as he casts that 5th spell which was different at the 2nd spell level he can't choose to pick others until he's slept. Perhaps this in-and-of itself makes the Wizard more powerful...I didn't think of that until now. Hmm, your thoughts on how to circumvent this and balance it out?

I could give the sorcerer's an extra feat per 5 levels, and bonus SP and leave the wizard class as-is or make Blake produce a memorized spell list every time he's rested and use only what's on that? Which would you prefer? If the party is all magic user's, I might as well adjust thing's to work into the game and gear it more mage friendly but I don't want it too lop-sided.

NOOOOoooooooo!!!! Please no memorized spell list, just a list of spells, my magicka pool, and then the cost of spells. That way I will just run out of magicka.

Oh, and instead of dual classing, could I just have a 50% increase for all my wizard spells? Something to that effect...

*laughs* Personally, I'd rather do it that way too, so if Oskatat doesn't object to an extra feat and Spell Points...

Are you ready to start playing again Blake or still under the weather?

I keep waking up sick, but as I get going it gets better. I'm kind of at a stop Marishia though so I guess I'll post the next event pretty soon.

Alright, well whenever you're ready to start up again, I'll open the game up for everyone else. DZ got ahead of you, but he won't be around for about a week so there's really no rush but with Oskatat joining, if you two wanted to play, have at it.

Hope you feel better soon. Luckily there hasn't been too much of anyone getting sick around here the past month or so, April was horrible though. Something was going around that was just nasty and everyone got sick.

@Oskatat, I forgot about your HP, I apologize. I rolled a 20 and a 4, so that'd give you 46 HP altogether.

@Blake, we'll see when I hear back from Jaypee on whether he'd like to attempt fitting the game into his schedule or not. I could work that out I think if we decide to go with that system for altering the character's.

I thought through the wizard/sorcerer thing. Given the time differences and all, I'm going for as much ease of use and fluidity in the system as I can while still having a structured system. Providing a daily spell list doesn't seem all that difficult, however...I never liked that part of the game myself.

Here's my suggestion.

*Wizard's have a large spell list to choose from. We use the spell slot progression of the wizard normally to limit the variety of choices a wizard can have daily. If the book says 5 1st level, 4 2nd level, 3 3rd level and 1 4th level, Blake can use that many different spells per each spell level, per day, in any variation and combination he wants so long as he has the spell points. This means, he could use all his spell points on one 1st level spell repeatedly, or all on a few uses of the 1 4th level spell he memorized for the day. He couldn't cast more than 5 different 1st level spells in one day though, yet he could cast Magic Missile 10 times in one day if he wanted, it being the same spell. Make sense there?

*Doing this, Sorcerer's lose their edge. The only bonus they have given the rules would leave them with a handful more Spell Points. I'd need to adjust them as well.

1. I propose adding a number of Spell Points, say 1/2 caster level x Cha Modifier= bonus spell points? Your 6th level sorcerer with +4 modifier would give you +12 spell points (3x4=12). In addition to that, same feat progression as the wizard (1st, 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th level earns a bonus feat). This emphasises the sorcerer's strength's while seperating it from the wizard. Low number of known spells but higher usages, just as before. Sound fair? That would put Jakal's SP almost even with Kaleb's.

2. Alternatively, you could do the feat's, and gain a number of bonus spell levels known equal to the formula of +Cha Mod Spell Level's every time you gain a level which would open up a new spell level (4th, 6th, 8th, 10th, 12th, 14th, 16th, 18th). This would give you more freedom, allowing at 4th level to choose say your CHA was at 17 there, 3 spell levels of spells to know. That could be 3 extra 1st level spells, or 1 1st and 1 second level spell. Then, at 6th level, you bumped your CHA to 18, and recieved 4 more spell level's to distribute, choosing an extra 3rd level spell, and saving the extra level for when you reached 8th level Sorcerer. Spell level's could be saved in order to gain higher level spell's know upon reaching a higher level. You wouldn't gain any extra SP with this manner however.

Does method 1 or 2 sound more appealing?

Also, Blake's spell list includes spells from the Dragonlance Campaign book.

[INDENT]2nd level:
*Elemental Dart (1d6+1/level of elemental damage {1d6+8}, choose damage type upon casting, +1 dart at 5th, 7th, 9th and 11th lvl),
*Shocking Spark (4d6 electricity damage to one target, +1 attack at 7th and 10th level),

3rd level:
*Billim's Bifrost Bride: Creates bridge, 2 5ft squares/level (10ft wide, 40 ft long, or 5 ft wide, 80ft long at 8th level), 1min/level
*Earthen Shield: 5x5x1ft Sections, 1 section/level, 100 hit points per foot of thickness, 2 sections can be put on top of one another to make a 10 ft high wall, sections can be stacked behind each other to create a thicker wall)
*Palin's Pyre: 3d6 fire damage to all within an area of a 5ft square/level (40ftx40ft at 8th level), failed Reflex save means they catch on fire

4th level:
*Storm Wall: Deals 2d4/rd electrical damage to those within 10ft and 2d4+1/lvl passing through it, double for those wearing a lot of metal, 1d4 for those between 10-20ft away, lasts until concentration has ended +1rd/level
*Spark Shield: Provides light, Half damage to electricity, anyone striking you takes 1d4+1/lvl damage, double if wearing a lot of metal or hit you with a metal melee weapon (2d4+2/level), 1rd/lvl
*Dalamar's Lighting Lance: Ranged 100+10/lvl feet, 3d6 damage, +1d6/lvl electricity damage, +1 lance at 10th and 15th lvl[/INDENT]

Feel free to adjust your spell list to include those if you wish to, keeping in mind that Blake's character does know all schools in the Player's Handbook outside the Divination, Necromancy, and Enchantment school's, while specializing in Transmutation spells. Your list is fine, but you may wish to consider the fact a simple shield spell leaves you unable to use magic as an attack anymore. I won't try to deliberatly butcher the party, but I won't kill the NPC's strength's either. Mage Armor, Shield and such are standard protection spell's for magic user's, facing one could leave you nullified from attacking and just as a support character. That may be fine with you though.

well, to have more spells would eliminate a weakness of a sorcerer. However, the goal of the classes is not to have no weaknessess, but to complement each others strenghts. So in this respect, enhancing an already 'greater' strength is a less radical change, but does make a difference between the classes again.

I'll go for the feats and the spell points. I'll come with a feat soon. For that time, consider one of my meta magic feats as chosen as that particular feat.

see ya later, got a meeting with the board now

Sounds good, feel free to grab another feat, add 12 to your S.P. and adjust your H.P. to 46 whenever you find time then. I need to adjust DZ's character as well.

Edit: DZ's character was adjusted as to S.P. (8) and a new feat (Heighten Spell).

I'll be doing the S.P. as a one shot deal. When your level or CHA go up, your S.P. is adjusted, I don't calculate and add the old and new together just FYI.

Since this is a group of mages, I've decided to adjust the game to allow for you to be free-flowing magic users. Some of this will be a repeat of what's scattered throughout the thread before, but for organization purposes....

As such, meta-magic feats work this way.

*3 free uses/day for each feat you have. This means if you have empower, you may use it 3 times a day without costing more S.P. Heighten works different and you can only use it free if you choose between a 1-3 level adjustment. Beyond that, you pay the difference until your 3 uses are gone.

*You don't need to have access to a spell slot that would normally be needed after adjusting a spell. You can empower a 3rd level spell if you can only cast up to 3rd level spells if you wish. You still need to be able to afford the cost.

*In order to use your free uses, as stated above you must still have the available SP cost in your reserve to cost it as you wish to. Empowering your Elemental dart would cost you 7 S.P., if you have a free use left, and 7+ SP, it's free. If you couldn't normally afford to cast it, it fails.

*Stacking meta-magic feats on top of one another means you simply add together the adjustments and fix cost. For example:

[INDENT]A heightened, empowered Elemental Dart, made to be adjusted say 4 levels by DZ's character, then empowered would end up an 8th level spell, costing 15 SP, giving you 4 darts, all at 9th caster level, doing 1d6+9 x 1.5 damage.[/INDENT]

Stacking your free uses is possible, but you may only use one free use of your MM (metamagic) feats on each spell. In the above example, you would nix the cost of the Empower, and have a 6th level cost of 11 S.P. altogether.

*You may use cooperative magic if you so wish to do so. Here is how I'll work that in.

-Base mage determines caster level and what spell is used.
-Supplimental mage's use their actions to add spell points to the pool.
-Each supplimental mage can use 1/2 the cost of the normal cost of said spell by Base Mage to add 1/2 their caster level to Base Mage's caster level.
-Each supplimental mage may instead use the normal cost of the spell to add in half their caster level and one MM feat which would effect in with an adjustment of no more than half their caster level. Or, they may pay normal cost to adjust it by their full caster level instead.
-This counts as a full round action for everyone involved
-Only the Base Mage must know the spell to be cast, and only the one contributing the extra feats must know the feats to be added.
-The mages involved must simply be successful in casting a spell without failure, and within sight of each other. No contact is necessary.

For example: Upon cresting a hill, Jakal's familiar sights a group of orcs camping in the distance. Out of arrow range, and normal spell range, at 800 ft away, they all three party members spend a round to cast this spell, setting off a fireball that the orcs are oblivious to right into the middle of their camp...

-Kaleb casts Fireball (3rd level spell, Caster level 8, 5 S.P.)
-Aladine spends his action to add 5 S.P. to add half his caster level (2) to said spell, and empower to it.
-Jakal spends his action to add 5 S.P. to add half his caster level (3), plus the Silent spell feat to the spell.

You end up with only one spell being cast in the round, a total of 15 S.P. being cast, a 13th level fireball that is silently cast, with empower on it. It has a range of 960 ft, along with damage of 10d6 x 1.5 (average of 45 damage, max of 90 if saves are failed), and it affects a 20 ft radius.

Kaleb is the only one who knows the Fireball spell, while Jakal is the only one who knows the Silent Spell Feat. Yet, together, they can make this work, given the cost and spending a full round to make one spell.

Explanation understood, proposal for class alteration accepted and implemented on Character Sheet post. Now I just need to find the raven stats

That looks great.

I'm somewhat bored and I'm thinking I'll work your character in just in case you feel like doing something until the other's are back up to playing. I don't know when Blake will be better, and DZ will be in Vegas until next week and unable to play so it will be a while for him.

I will set a post up explaining whats going on around you and what not, if you choose to act on it before they come back, thats great. If not, that's fine too.

DZ's new Skeleton Warrior Familiar:

5th lvl Minotaur Skeleton Fighter

H.P. 41

Str. 26 (+8) AC 20, 13, 17(+4 N.A.)
Dex 16 (+3) Attack 14 (1d10+10, 19-20 x2)
Con -- Fort 4
Int 10 Ref 4
Wis 10 Will 1
Cha 6 SR 18
Move: 60 ft/round BAB 5

Skills: Discipline 16, Climb 12, Jump 12

Equip: Heavy Flail (1d10, 19-20 x2), Breastplate

Feats: Weapon Focus: Heavy Flail, Weapon Specialization: Heavy Flail, Power Attack, Cleave, Improved Sunder

Special Abilities/Qualities: Immune to sleep, paralysis, poison, mind-effecting attacks, polymorph, cold, and electricity. Damage Reduction 5/bludgeoning, +2 to Strength, no Constitution score

DZ, feel free to equip him as you choose to when you find equipment. You control him as well. He'll increase in ability every time you gain a level in your spell casting classes.

Note:
There are now links in the first post on this thread to each of your characters, Kaleb's spell book, and the two websites I posted links for. Just in case you feel like looking and don't want to dig for them. I've copied them onto notepads on my desktop, but just in case.

Cool, thanks magrus.

No problem.

Jaypee isn't joining up. He just doesn't have to time to invest in the game unfortunately.

I'm not going to do the alteration of characters as you have the two skeleton's, your familiars and I've altered the magic system in your favor. If you're smart and work together you should be able to tackle most anything fairly easily. The problem is the timing of things.

Since you made your character to be a support character Oskatat, if you want to change your spell list, feel free to, just run it by me first. If you end up playing on your own because of time zone differences, you end up being more of a solo-type, not a support character. It's all up to you though.

Don't forget that you DO have the ability to use your meta-magic feats, for free, 3/day each feat. Just so long as you the SP left to cast it modified like that in the first place. You won't use the extra ones, but you still need them "there" to use those free feats regardless.

A heightened fireball can do more damage, your 8th level fireball heightened to 11th level with that free feat Blake will fly farther, be harder to resist, and it does 10d6 instead of 8d6 damage. Keep that kind of thing in mind.