Please guide me into the world of metal

Fiberfar · Post by **Fiberfar** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 12:24 pm

Moonbiter wrote:@Malta Soron:

You really need to get into Gamma Ray, the band of former Helloween guitarist, songwriter and singer Kai Hansen. You're gonna love it. Check out the albums "Somewhere Out In Space" and "Powerplant" for starters.

I agree. I also found Majestic to be very good.

Oh and I wonder if I mentioned Savatage? If you're interested, get hold off Gutter Ballet and Edge of Thorns.

Gilliatt · Post by **Gilliatt** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 7:33 pm

Yes, these are 3 good Gamma Ray albums. I know you already have Somewhere out in Space, maybe you also have the other two. They also have a double album Greatest Hits.

I was also holding Savatage for later. I love that band, but I do not consider them essential to begin with. When you'll want to buy new albums, I also recommend Gutter Ballet and Edge of Thorns (The singer on Edge of Thorns, Zak Stevens is one of my favorite singers). Hall of the Mountain King is a good album also.

Fiberfar · Post by **Fiberfar** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 10:51 am

Gilliatt wrote: I was also holding Savatage for later. I love that band, but I do not consider them essential to begin with. When you'll want to buy new albums, I also recommend Gutter Ballet and Edge of Thorns (The singer on Edge of Thorns, Zak Stevens is one of my favorite singers). Hall of the Mountain King is a good album also.

Hall of the Mountain King is indeed a good album, but I don't think Jon Oliva's voice fits every listener. Zak's voice has a more smooth approach than Jon's voice has. Of the two, I like Jon better.

If you figure that you like Savatage and Jon Oliva's voice, get hold of Jon Oliva's Pain as well.

Gilliatt · Post by **Gilliatt** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 4:56 pm

Fiberfar wrote:Zak's voice has a more smooth approach than Jon's voice has. Of the two, I like Jon better.

I can understand that. While Stevens is much more gifted, Oliva compensates with much more passion and emotion. Zak Stevens is one of my favorite singers when he sings with passion, but I have no problem admitting that he can also be boring as hell. I don't know who writes the melodies in Savatage, but I guess the singers play a great part in it because the melodies were generally better when Oliva was singing.

BTW, I quit buying Savatage albums after Dead Winter Dead because Handful of Rain and Dead Winter Dead disappointed me a lot. Do you (or anyone else) have Wake of Magellan and Poets and Madmen? Are they worth it? How is Oliva's voice on Poets and Madmen? In the few songs he sang on Dead Winter Dead it looked like he had no more voice and was finished.

Edit: I just realize how funny or injust it is that we are talking about Savatage singers and have not even said a word about Criss Oliva (R.I.P.). What a guitarist he was!

Krank The Tank · Post by **Krank The Tank** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 9:34 pm

Gilliatt wrote:So far, the only ones I have seen that can reproduce live what they do in the studio are Gene Hoglan (ex-Death)

I thought his name was Gen, not Gene? Or maybe it's just pronounced Gen...

Anyhow, yes, Gene Hoglan certainly can reporudce what he does in the studio. If you've ever watched him live with Strapping Young Lad (Devy rules, btw) then you'd know. Lots of really fast drumming on those tracks.

I do recommend SYL if you like fast songs, as long as you can withstand some parts of the tracks where they descend into white noise for a few seconds from the multiple layers of guitar that the Dev so often likes to use. I can recommend SYL (the album by the band, this isn't their debut though) and The New Black (the newest, and final album). SYL is a lot heavier with more screaming and such, whereas The New Black is more melodic (not to say it's not heavy and fast, though) with more singing, but both albums are good.

And if you like prog metal, Synchestra by Devin Townsend (that's the same frontman from SYL) is a good album. Pretty cheerful on most tracks, except probably Vampira and Pixillate, which are darker simply so there can be a little more variety. The songs sound fairly similar in most cases, but that's more on the actual style than the tune and melody itself.

(if you haven't guessed, I have no clue about any of the technical aspects of anything, just know what sounds good lol)

Gilliatt · Post by **Gilliatt** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 10:00 pm

Even though I am still a rookie and it is not really my place to do so, I welcome you to the forum, Krank the Tank, fellow countryman.

I have 3 albums with Hoglan (2 Death and 1 Dark Angel) and his name is written Gene Hoglan on the 3.

Personally, I am not a big SYL fan. I have seen them live once, and the sound was so loud, I heard absolutely nothing else than an undinstinctive noise. But I have a friend who is a big fan, so I can understand that you like it and won't disapprove your recommendation. (As I said before, we cannot all love the same things.)

Thanks and congratulations for taking the time to read all the replies before you sent yours!

Malta Soron · Post by **Malta Soron** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 2:31 am

Thanks for the tips

A friend pointed me towards Agent Steel; I really like their early albums

Fiberfar · Post by **Fiberfar** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 9:37 am

Gilliatt wrote:I can understand that. While Stevens is much more gifted, Oliva compensates with much more passion and emotion. Zak Stevens is one of my favorite singers when he sings with passion, but I have no problem admitting that he can also be boring as hell. I don't know who writes the melodies in Savatage, but I guess the singers play a great part in it because the melodies were generally better when Oliva was singing.

BTW, I quit buying Savatage albums after Dead Winter Dead because Handful of Rain and Dead Winter Dead disappointed me a lot. Do you (or anyone else) have Wake of Magellan and Poets and Madmen? Are they worth it? How is Oliva's voice on Poets and Madmen? In the few songs he sang on Dead Winter Dead it looked like he had no more voice and was finished.

Edit: I just realize how funny or injust it is that we are talking about Savatage singers and have not even said a word about Criss Oliva (R.I.P.). What a guitarist he was!

I know that Criss and Jon where the one writing the lyrics along with their bass player. Zak also wrote a few songs if I'm not wrong. I'm going to have a look at Poets and Madmen, since the last Jon Oliva's Pain album, Maniacal Renderings was a very good album. If it sounds anything like that, I'll definitively buy it. I'll let you know how it sounds.

Yeah... I thought about that too. We forgot about Criss. He's up to date one of the best guitarist I've heard. So much passion and emotion. It's sad that he had to go so early. R.I.P

Krank The Tank · Post by **Krank The Tank** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 6:25 pm

Gilliatt wrote: Personally, I am not a big SYL fan. I have seen them live once, and the sound was so loud, I heard absolutely nothing else than an undinstinctive noise. But I have a friend who is a big fan, so I can understand that you like it and won't disapprove your recommendation. (As I said before, we cannot all love the same things.)

I have never seen SYL live, but if you were to watch the whole 40 minutes they were on at Download 2006 on the [url="http://www.hevydevy.com"]HDR Website[/url] (I hope that's not advertising

) it sounds crystal clear there. But maybe that's just something to do with that it's not actually live.

SYL is pretty good if you listen to it on speakers or headphones. But they do tend to be pretty loud so it makes sense that you may have just heard white noise.

And thanks for the welcome

Kipi · Post by **Kipi** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 12:11 pm

Moonsorrow could also be very interesting experience to everyone of you...
if it doesn't bother that they sing in finnish...

Their music is rather interesting, as in latest "album" contains only 2 songs, but the total playing time of the album is a bit less than one hour...
So, that means those two tracks are veeeeery long...

Mandalorianx · Post by **Mandalorianx** » Sun Feb 25, 2007 3:53 pm

not sure if any1 have mention this band, Nonpoint....and ther album ''To The Pain''.they are pretty good, but people sometimes think they are just a rock band, but they are far more heavyer then just a rock band....try them

Fiberfar · Post by **Fiberfar** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 11:22 am

I've added two clips in the "member youtube videos" - thread. You should check them out

Malta Soron · Post by **Malta Soron** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 6:12 pm

Fiberfar wrote:I've added two clips in the "member youtube videos" - thread. You should check them out

They're cool

Thanks

Avane · Post by **Avane** » Wed May 16, 2007 11:56 am

Is this metal or techno or crossover?

Hope you don't think this an invasion of your post Malta Soron, but thought this might just be on the edge of what maybe you're looking for, but not sure where it falls in the music category, so putting it up. Might be shot down...

Tago Mago:

Mushroom House

German band with Japanese vocalist. The sound to me is metal, but not sure. Okay if I ask? If not metal tell me what it is? Listened to other bands same era Ammon Duul, liked

Wolf City

alot. That was metal, yes? But most curious about Tago Mago also liked alot their

Monster Movie

It's not techno, it's got much more emotion than that. So if poss definitions? And if right genre MS, then I hope you like it too!

YouTube - Can - Mushroom

Avane · Post by **Avane** » Thu May 17, 2007 3:53 pm

Can/Karoli/Stockhausen/Non-Derivative/Greatful Dead

Moderators if you read on you might suggest start of new post. Let me know . Got good title in mind. Avane

Can Influences with reference to metal [well is it?]

Been having a chat with my recently [few years now] departed friend and confidante; Hunter S Thompson [unfortunately shot himself in the face and tragically died. RIP Hunter We Love You

].
Hope anyone with a moment and who is a 'metal music lover' has had the the chance/opportunity to watch/listen to Can's Tago Mago Mushroom . As posted on Malta Soron's Please Guide Me Into/Onto Metal. Slotted a Can video and like rest of planet, find YouTube best to watch in the small p.m.'s when no one else is watching...not so jumpy then.

I know in my original posting that I asked you where you thought the 'generic' music origin was rooted [Can Also quick query about Ammon Duul, but really my interest is Can]. But that was probably only a little prod into - ' do you like this music, or not'? Does it match with MS's quest?

You see I find the band Can fascinating:

Where to start: the keyboard player was trained by Stockhausen.
Influences: Acid
Broke new ground: Only music in this period to be heavy bass/drums
First serious non-anglophone band to be taken seriously in USA. As noted in fact : German band and Japanese vocalist.
This non-derivative presentation wherein they, Can, defined their own style can be likened to that same self-contained and mimetic ideology that is contemporaneous with The Grateful Dead.

Guess I would love to have comments from both metal and lovers of all sorts of music. Feel free to bombard!,

Kipi · Post by **Kipi** » Thu May 17, 2007 4:10 pm

Avane, I think the discussion you are trying to have should be in separated thread, as it has only minimal connection to the original point of this thread...

And back to the topic:
Bought new (well, actually not so new as the album was published in 2003) album from band called Amoral. Finnish death metal, and rather good. The album I bought is "Wound Creations". I hearthly recommend especially this album.

Avane · Post by **Avane** » Thu May 17, 2007 4:50 pm

Can

You sure Kipi? MS wanted to be introduced to metal, I was introducing what I considered to be a type of 'metal'. I was asking the 'panel of experts' : that would be you guys; did this fit the genre? Sure I brought in more info about the key board player being trained by Stockhausen, but surely that would be of interest to any metal music afficionado? Hmm?

So back 'en point' is Can metal? Really would like an answer from somone.

Can't say I've ever been into Finnish metal so will look forward to Wound Creations. Thanks for the heads up.

Before I say g'night, how does 'metal' differ from 'death' metal [as Wound Creations] and then the other sub-genre 'black' metal? Thanks Kipi.[Super/mods is this in the right place? If not pls move just want an answer. Thanks] Also tell me where to jump to pls. A.

Fiberfar · Post by **Fiberfar** » Thu May 17, 2007 5:32 pm

Hm... I've gotten hold of some more CD's since last I posted here.

- The new W.A.S.P-album, Dominator. I love it, but some people claim it's too weak. Blackie Lawless still got those energic vocals.

Kipi · Post by **Kipi** » Thu May 17, 2007 5:47 pm

Avane wrote:You sure Kipi? MS wanted to be introduced to metal, I was introducing what I considered to be a type of 'metal'. I was asking the 'panel of experts' : that would be you guys; did this fit the genre? Sure I brought in more info about the key board player being trained by Stockhausen, but surely that would be of interest to any metal music afficionado? Hmm?

I think I misunderstood your post, becuase as I reread it, it seems to be more on topic than what I thought it were. So my apologizes on that

Before I say g'night, how does 'metal' differ from 'death' metal [as Wound Creations] and then the other sub-genre 'black' metal? Thanks Kipi.[Super/mods is this in the right place? If not pls move just want an answer. Thanks] Also tell me where to jump to pls. A.

I'm going to quote WIkipedia here, as those styles are better explained there than I would be able to do...

Death Metal wrote: Death metal may include chromatic chord progressions and a varied song structure without a standard verse-chorus arrangement; compositions instead tend to emphasize an ongoing development of themes and motifs. The genre is often identified with downtuned rhythm guitars, fast percussion, and dynamic intensity. Blast beats and exceedingly fast drum patterns are frequently used to add to the ferocity of the genre. The vocals are often grunts, snarls, and low gurgles colloquially called death grunts or death growls. Death grunts require use of the throat and guts, unlike traditional singing techniques which discourage this technique

Black Metal wrote: Black metal is an extreme heavy metal subgenre. It is typically characterized by the use of heavily-distorted guitars, harsh vocals, fast-paced rhythms, and unconventional song structures.

Heavy Metal wrote: Heavy metal is traditionally characterized by loud distorted guitars, emphatic rhythms, dense bass-and-drum sound, and vigorous vocals. Metal subgenres variously emphasize, alter, or omit one or more of these tropes.

So, basically Death and Black metals are more aggressive forms of metal than heavy metal.

@Fibey
Yeah, I have heard that album as well. I must admit that I liked the earlier production better, though Dominator ain't that bad. Listenable, I would say.

Oh, and forgot one album from previous post: The Final Chapter from band called Hypocrisy. Very good death metal album from Sweden. Peter Tägtgren proves his skills again as a singer.

Fiberfar · Post by **Fiberfar** » Thu May 17, 2007 6:35 pm

I got hold of Norwegian Metal band Griffin's fifth release last month, and it's very straight forward heavy metal. The Ultimate Demise has a change of vocals, which suits the less melodic style they use now. It got moderate critics, but I think it's worth a go if you've listened to the two previous releases.