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as i verge on getting drunk at 8 at night, i wondered about this question...anyone have a take on it?
a six pack a day, a case a day?
beer for breakfast?
drinking lemon extract?

[ 10-30-2001: Message edited by: nael ]

i think that as long as you can control your intake, and drink responsibly, you are not an alchoholic.

Anyone who feels an intense need to drink is an alcoholic.

Originally posted by Aegis:
<STRONG>Anyone who feels an intense need to drink is an alcoholic.</STRONG>

well, almost everyone i know feels that need once in awhile...bad day at work, bad break up, death, celebrations, birthdays, etc.
but if you allow one form of "intense need" does the theory fall to a slippery slope? thus allowing any feeling of need to either be acceptable socially or to be condemned as a disease.

Uh, well, you did admit to driving drunk in one of your posts ...

Originally posted by Lazarus:
<STRONG>Uh, well, you did admit to driving drunk in one of your posts ... </STRONG>

That doesn't make one an alcoholic, merely an idiot

IMO it is a combination of what Zelgadis and Aegis said... It's a need that you can't control.

[ 10-30-2001: Message edited by: Georgi ]

Originally posted by nael:
<STRONG>as i verge on getting drunk at 8 at night, i wondered about this question...anyone have a take on it?
a six pack a day, a case a day?
beer for breakfast?
drinking lemon extract?

</STRONG>

I have been at the point of drinking at breakfast. I have spent the night in a ditch...in vomit. Once you reach the point where drinking is everything...you will end up with nothing.


I don't drink any more. I made the decision not to. The only way you can stop is by deciding on your own.

Originally posted by Lazarus:
<STRONG>Uh, well, you did admit to driving drunk in one of your posts ... </STRONG>

i fail to see your point.
but aside from that...when i was a minor and i "drove drunk", it was defined by law as having ANY trace of alcohol in my blood...that hardly means i was drunk or that i was an alcoholic.

and as a side note...over 80% of all accidents involving drunk drivers, it is actually the other driver's fault, not the intoxicated one.

Some information on "Alcohol Use Disorder" as it is called in medical and psychiatric circles:

"A person who is alcohol dependent has increased tolerance to alcohol or symptoms of withdrawal after discontinuing alcohol ingestion. People who are dependent upon alcohol may spend significant amounts of time drinking alcohol even though they are fully aware of the destructive aspects of the drug.

A person abusing alcohol begins to disregard his/her responsibilities in school, at work, or socially because of alcohol use. Also, the alcohol abuser may engage in dangerous activities while intoxicated.

Alcohol intoxication often causes a person to experience emotional changes such as moodiness or irritability. The person may also experience such physical changes as slurred speech and poor coordination. Excessive alcohol use may lead to memory loss called "blackouts".

Alcohol withdrawal follows the discontinuation of the heavy use of alcohol. The person in alcohol withdrawal may have such symptoms as rapid pulse, sweating, nausea, vomiting, hallucinations, and seizures."

Originally posted by Georgi:
<STRONG>That doesn't make one an alcoholic, merely an idiot

IMO it is a combination of what Zelgadis and Aegis said... It's a need that you can't control.

</STRONG>

i agree with you more or less with both. but a need by definition is something you can't control

Originally posted by thantor3:
<STRONG> People who are dependent upon alcohol may spend significant amounts of time drinking alcohol even though they are fully aware of the destructive aspects of the drug.

Also, the alcohol abuser may engage in dangerous activities while intoxicated.

Alcohol intoxication often causes a person to experience emotional changes such as moodiness or irritability. The person may also experience such physical changes as slurred speech and poor coordination. Excessive alcohol use may lead to memory loss called "blackouts".

Alcohol withdrawal follows the discontinuation of the heavy use of alcohol. The person in alcohol withdrawal may have such symptoms as rapid pulse, sweating, nausea, vomiting, hallucinations, and seizures."</STRONG>

all of the above is true for just abotu anyone who drinks. it hardly makes someone an alcoholic.

however, the part where you said it effects their work, studies, etc. i liked that part of the definition.

Originally posted by nael:
<STRONG>i agree with you more or less with both. but a need by definition is something you can't control</STRONG>

I disagree. If you have developed a psychological dependency on alcohol, it is possible to regain control... it's just not easy to do.

Originally posted by nael:
<STRONG>all of the above is true for just abotu anyone who drinks. it hardly makes someone an alcoholic.</STRONG>

Originally posted by Thantor3:
<STRONG>rapid pulse, sweating, nausea, vomiting, hallucinations, and seizures</STRONG>

This doesn't happen to the average person if they stop drinking.

Originally posted by Georgi:
<STRONG>This doesn't happen to the average person if they stop drinking.</STRONG>

alright, very true...but it can happen the night of the drinking

Originally posted by nael:
<STRONG>alright, very true...but it can happen the night of the drinking </STRONG>

Indeed... which in itself is hardly healthy...

hey, i never said anything about healthy.
but one good (healthy, i should say) thing about alcohol...prevents kidney stones. and is actually fairly important to the health of any athletes who use creatine since it has a tendency to stick around in the kidneys seeing as it is not water soluble.

Originally posted by nael:
<STRONG>hey, i never said anything about healthy.</STRONG>

Well surely that is the whole thing about alcoholism... whether your drinking habit is healthy or not... As you said, drinking alcohol doesn't make one an alcoholic

Someone down the hall from me had 33 beers in 12 hours. 25 beers and weed in even less time another night. Yet I wouldn't classify him as an alcoholic. He gets his work done; he goes to his classes.

My roomate has at most had 15 beers a night. His worst was a bottle of absolute - but I have no idea how much time that was over (could have been a whole day). He drinks less, but I would call him the alcoholic. Why? He does not get his work done; he skips many classes.

The guy down the hall doesn't let it affect his life; my roomate does.

Cut and paste from DSM IV, the diagnostic manual used in medicine, psychiatry and psychology:

A. Alcohol abuse: A destructive pattern of alcohol use, leading to significant social, occupational, or medical impairment.

B. Must have three (or more) of the following, occurring when the alcohol use was at its worst:

1. Alcohol tolerance: Either need for markedly increased amounts of alcohol to achieve intoxication, or markedly diminished effect with continued use of the same amount of alcohol.

2. Alcohol withdrawal symptoms: Either (a) or (b).
(a) Two (or more) of the following, developing within several hours to a few days of reduction in heavy or prolonged alcohol use:

sweating or rapid pulse
increased hand tremor
insomnia
nausea or vomiting
physical agitation
anxiety
transient visual, tactile, or auditory hallucinations or illusions
grand mal seizures

(b) Alcohol is taken to relieve or avoid withdrawal symptoms.
Alcohol was often taken in larger amounts or over a longer period than was intended

3. Persistent desire or unsuccessful efforts to cut down or control alcohol use

4. Great deal of time spent in using alcohol, or recovering from hangovers

5. Important social, occupational, or recreational activities given up or reduced because of alcohol use.

6. Continued alcohol use is continued despite knowledge of having a persistent or recurrent physical or psychological problem that is likely to have been worsened by alcohol (e.g., continued drinking despite knowing that an ulcer was made worse by drinking alcohol)

I'm not in substance abuse business, but IIRC a person is diagnosed as having alcohol dependancy if 3 of the B-criteria are fulfulled, and alcohol abuse if both the A-criterion and 3 B-criteria are fulfilled.

@CE - ok, i like that definition, very thorough.