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I just wanted to share some gaming experiences.

It occurred to me, that while I’ve been playing this series for years, I always ended up with the same party, same class, alignment, and so forth. Somehow I always ended up with something like a regular human Fighter, with chaotic good leanings. And playing through the game together with Imoen, Minsc, Dynaheir, Jaheira and Khalid. You know, the usual suspects.

So, I really wanted something new this time around. In the beginning when I started playing this game (years ago), I usually chose either a Druid or a Paladin. It was not their actual gameplay characteristics I was interested in, but rather their concept, I think. However, when I got more interested in roleplaying these games, I found that they were rather “locked” in a way. For example, concerning alignment, where they can only choose True Neutral and Lawful Good, respectively.

Then I started playing regular Fighters – perchance even a Fighter/Cleric! Somehow almost always a Chaotic Good one.

So, this time I chose a class, which I have always disregarded in the past…the Bard! This could not be farther from what I originally would have chosen! So far (I’m in chapter 4; only having a few “wilderness areas” left, before attempting Cloakwood forest), it’s been quite a challenge. It’s not as straightforward as, say, the fighter. Just figuring quite what he can, and cannot, do, has been interesting in itself. That’s why I have also stayed away from NPC’s like Garrick and Eldoth in the past, I think.

Concerning alignment, a Bard must be of Chaotic alignment. Not wanted to choose either Chaotic Good or True Neutral (yet again) – and not wanting to be evil – I chose Chaotic Neutral. I find this a rather difficult alignment to roleplay. I’ve read that this a particular direction for madmen and lunatics! That’s not what I had in mind when I made the character! The NPC’s in the game that are of this alignment is Safana, Quayle and Garrick – though I find it hard to see what’s chaotic neutral about them.

I guess that you could, for example, choose dialogue options that seem rather chaotic. I cannot remember the exact line, but there’s an option you can pick when talking to the Flaming Fist Mercenary in the area where you can help save Samuel (or turn him in). Perhaps it’s also a character, that having one conviction one moment, changes in the next one. For example, having agreed to help Lena get Samuel to the Temple, then turn in him. Because it seems right in that very moment. Could this be considered Chaotic Neutral? It could be described as evil also, I guess.

My characters stats are as follows – mind you, I made a roleplaying character, not a powergaming one. With the different Tomes and Manuals lying around, he’ll look like this:

Strength 15
Dexterity 17
Constitution 16
Intelligence 17
Wisdom 16
Charisma 16
Some of his equipment is a Chain Mail +2, Gauntlets of Dexterity, Light Crossbow of Light, Long Sword +1, Boots of Avoidance, Girdle of Piercing, and Algernon’s Cloak. So his Dex is 18, and so is his charisma.

Due to his alignment and equipment he is almost always the first one to charge the enemy. I usually strength buff and Mirror Image before going into melee. I used to use the mage spell Shield before battle as well, but the Chain Mail +2 actually gives a lower armor class – when having reequipped it after doing spells, that is. I hear there are some similarities between the Bard and the Fighter/Mage class concerning gameplay?

He almost never gets hit by missile weapons – though when he does get hit, he really gets hit! Mind you, that he usually stands in the back firing his crossbow, playing the harp or casting spells. But sometimes he decides that his place is in the frontline with the tanks! He’s got over 200 kills by now, only slightly behind Minsc and Khalid. Which I guess is pretty decent for a Bard.

As for my party, I am intending to finish with the storyline party. But also to ensure continuity with some of the other NPC’s I decided to bring other people along as well; at least for some parts of the journey. For instance, I brought Xzar and Montaron with me to solve the mystery of Nashkel Mines. Then I brought Edwin and Minsc along with me to the Gnoll Stronghold to save Dynaheir; and dump Edwin.

I dumped dear Imoen for a short while, while helping Safana clearing out that treasure cove. I got the sense, that Jaheira sometimes aspires to leadership of the group at times (or disagrees with it, at least), so I dumped her and Khalid for Kivan and Kagain (to gain a little maturity, in a way), for chapter 3 and hunting bandit scalps. Now, there is not continuity concern with these; just wanted to try them out. Roleplaying wise, I wanted Kivan to get a bit of his revenge for the loss of his love, and Kagain for his lost caravan and mercenaries. And, can I just say, I only had Kivan for a week or so, but he gained more than half of the kills than my own character at the time! And Kagain, while I do not appreciate his personality that much, he was a formidable tank (especially equipped with the aforementioned Gauntlets of Dexterity). He didn’t kill much, but at one point he was surrounded by three ogres, only giving an annoyed grunt from time to time. The usual party I have seems dull by comparison…

As for other NPC’s, I brought Viconia alongside for a while. She was pretty annoyed it seemed, but I wanted to create a sort of background relationship between her and me before Shadows of Amn. I left her in Beregost…

I’m also picking up Coran and Faldorn for Cloakwood. The first, just because you meet him again, and the latter, again, just to create a backstory for the showdown between her and Jaheira. Certainly not for my enjoyment!

I’m not sure what to do about Ajantis, Tiax and Quayle…

As for my own character, I am planning to play through the entire series with him. Looking at the Bard kits perhaps making him into a Blade – which would fit quite well with his alignment and melee tendencies. My only concern is his rather modest strength, but I guess there are spells and equipment to augment this?

So, this turned out to be a rather long post, but just wanted to share. Have any of you had any similar experiences, where you sort of found new ways of enjoying the game yet again, even after several years of playing?

I'm not sure where you got the idea a bard has to be chaotic, or if that was a typo, a bard has to have a neutral element in her/his alignment. So she/he could be Neutral, Neutral Good, Neutral Evil, Chaotic Neutral or Lawful Neutral.

Oh yeah, sorry

It was a typo...I didn't want to choose True Neutral because of my previous experience with the druid, Neutral Good, because of my earlier aligment choices (they all seemed to be in that goody-good area), and did not want to be evil, that is to say, as you pointed out, Neutral Evil.

Somehow I wrote it down differently and focused on the chaotic part...

I've recently tried a few things I haven't done before, one bieng a run through with what many consider the 'default' party for the first time, Jahheira, Khalid, Minsc, Dynaheir and Imoen. I got about as far as I got the first time with Minsc before he decided to try murdering everyone, again!

The very first game I played I picked up Minsc and he murdered Imoen, this time he didn't actually succeed in killing anyone before we got killed. I didn't have Jaheira and Khalid the first time I played, I couldn't get past the assassin in the Friendly Arm Inn until after finishing Nashkel, and they'd both done a runner.

I did end up this time with all but Minsc of the default party, had Yeslick in the party instead. Needless to say when I arrived in SoA I left the Doppelganger pretending to be Minsc in its cage!

I've never understood why people seem to actually like that murdering psychopath, Minsc's so obviously an evil assassin pretending to be a ranger! Heck he doesn't even have the prime requisites to be a Ranger, how so many people got fooled is amazing! Maybe they all got mesmerized by the rat he carries around with him!

Even more recently I've been playing with a Monk for the first time ever (using Tutu), boy was that tough, until I discovered they can use wands! After that it was a doddle.

Minsc the assassin, galraen?...isn't he too big and loud for that, you think?

Or maybe it's part of the disguise...

Anyway, concerning the rat; I've always been somewhat suspicious of that one...maybe it's just me?...

Sounds interesting with the monk..that makes sense roleplaying-wise as well, I think. Having been raised in Candlekeep, and all, surrounded by monks and scholars.

Tch. It's clear Boo is the one pulling the string for the three games.

Once he has all the essences he shall turn to his true size and ever be a plague upon Faerun!

Maybe Boo's a white mouse in disguise, seeking the answer to life, the universe and everything? Could Minsc really be the Bug Blatter Beast of Trall?

I'll keep an eye on him, you can be sure

Just an update:

I just finished chapter 4, with myself, Imoen, Jaheira, Khalid, Faldorn and Coran. Now I'm back to the default party, which will complete the game (+ expansion) in that constellation.

And can I just say...I've heard and read a lot about Coran, so naturally I had high expectations...and they were all met! Not wanting to provoke a Kivan versus Coran debate, but they were both very valuable assets to the group. I think Kivan probably got more kills in the time I had him (a week or so in chapter 3), and had more melee capabilities, but Coran was just a force of nature in ranged combat, not to mention his stealth/backstab combo!

It makes me wonder though...why the game developers chose the (now) default party; that these were the ones they assumed the gamer would choose to play through with? I do not know if they were the popular choice, though...

At least, on paper, a more powerful party - setting roleplaying issues aside - would be, say, Kivan and Coran as ranged fighters, Edwin as mage, Kagain as tank, Viconia as cleric? And the player character would perhaps be a sort of multiclass character - including thief with strengths in abilities that Coran do not possess?

Ah, time to start another new game, I guess...I'm delighted to have my enthusiasm for this series renewed...

Anara wrote:I'll keep an eye on him, you can be sure

Just an update:

I just finished chapter 4, with myself, Imoen, Jaheira, Khalid, Faldorn and Coran. Now I'm back to the default party, which will complete the game (+ expansion) in that constellation.

And can I just say...I've heard and read a lot about Coran, so naturally I had high expectations...and they were all met! Not wanting to provoke a Kivan versus Coran debate, but they were both very valuable assets to the group. I think Kivan probably got more kills in the time I had him (a week or so in chapter 3), and had more melee capabilities, but Coran was just a force of nature in ranged combat, not to mention his stealth/backstab combo!

It makes me wonder though...why the game developers chose the (now) default party; that these were the ones they assumed the gamer would choose to play through with? I do not know if they were the popular choice, though...

At least, on paper, a more powerful party - setting roleplaying issues aside - would be, say, Kivan and Coran as ranged fighters, Edwin as mage, Kagain as tank, Viconia as cleric? And the player character would perhaps be a sort of multiclass character - including thief with strengths in abilities that Coran do not possess?

Ah, time to start another new game, I guess...I'm delighted to have my enthusiasm for this series renewed...

One of my most powerfull parties in BG was centererd around Kivan and Coran.

Cleric/Illusionist (Protagonist spell chucker)
Kivan (Archer)
Coran (Archer, locks)
Minsk (tank, guantlets of dex, Defender +5)
Imoen (Conjurer, traps, backup archer)
Brawen (Extra healer,backup tank with guantlets of ogre power, slinger)

I was Chaotic Good so thats why I had Minsc Instead of Kaigan and Brawen instead of Viconia. If I had everyone except Minsc use missle weapons and spells most enemies would be dead by the time Minsc got to them. Kiven and Coran together are actually so good that you really don't need a formal tank. A buffed cleric or mage would last long enough for those two to mow down the enimies.

Sounds good!

Good choice with the gauntlets of dexterity. I found that one of the problems I had, was that I kept on giving my protagonist character all the good stuff. So I decided to give one of my "tanks" the gauntlets of dexterity, since they kept getting hit all the time.

I think Jaheira has it now, since she - if I recall correctly - has the lowest dex out of her, Khalid and Minsc.

I still miss Kivan, Coran and Kagain, though...

My own character didn't really need those gauntlets anyway - for range protection (against missiles) he has girdle of piercing and Boots of Avoidance. And when he's going melee, he's usually buffed up on spells.

As for an update, I'm going to the expansion areas now, before finishing the game in chapter 7. I really should be spending more time with my studies...

I'm rather surprised that you mentioned having trouble with a bard.

In the first game, I am convinced that it's the strongest class as you have everything you need from all other classes.

1. (Mage) You can cast spells to buff yourself, meaning that you need no armor as you get the Armor Spells, Mirror Image and Protection From Normal Missles for defense. For offense you get more attacks per round than your fighter, with the help of Haste.

2. (Fighter) You can wear up to chainmail (not that you need it) and can use all weapons as well as gain proficiency with them.

3. (Thief) You have high lore, sparing you the need to pay to get items identified and wasting a spell slot for the spell. Also, you can PICK POCKETS! Meaning that you can shoplift, getting tons of stuff for free, such as potions, ammunition, spells and so forth!

4. You can heal yourself with Vampric Touch.

5. You can backstab and while you can't hide in shadows, you can cast Invisibility and Improved Invisibility, as well as use potions.

6. You can use WANDS! The single most powerful thing you can do over all other classes but mage! With them you gain access to: (Notably) Fireball, Lightning (improved lightning in my opinion), Fear, Stun (VERY important this one as they can't defend themselves and it lasts for a hefty duration too!) and last but certainly not least, Monster Summoning for your own personal bodyguards. Use them like you use spells and when they're almost gone, sell them to a shopkeeper to recharge them, which brings me to my next point...

7. You are forced to have high charisma. Why is this good? because I hardly put any points here anyway, but aside from that, you get huge discounts with a charisma of 24 or 25 and 20 reputation.

With Blade in the last two games, it gets even better in terms of your abilities, plus new wands are available.

You're not the most powerful there, but in terms of single classes, you're right below Sorcerers and Mages.

Well, one of the problems I had was that I actually did not know exactly what he could and could not do. I knew about the proficiency points of course, and that he can't cast spells while wearing armor. But since I stayed away from this particular class - and also the Bard NPC's - I didn't know much more than that.

I didn't know you could backstab though...why didn't I see that?

As for economy, I'm amazed at how much gold I've saved by not having to go to temples for the identification of items. I do not have an exact number, but I'm sure it's alot

I never used him for stealing though...well, okay, shoplifting at least . I have pickpocketed certain individuals, such as Ramazith and Algernon. Oh yeah, and Oublek, in Nashkel. I just did that because he wouldn't accept those emeralds I picked up from Prism... ...just because I told him before that I was Greywolf... ...he only had a silver ring, but it was a principal matter, for me.

I am, however, getting much better at this class, I have to say. He is, as you say, a remarkable self-sufficient class...I just had to figure out how best to exploit him in a full-sized group. As of now, as I mentioned above, I'm using him in different ways; sometimes ranged damage (with either bow, crossbow or spells, perhaps going melee being buffed up on spells, or playing the harp once in a while...

But apart from the joinable NPC's - Eldoth and Garrick - there are other bards you meet throughout the game, yes? There is Poe, right, on the Firewine Bridge. And a couple in Baldur's Gate - one wanting a copy of the Unicorn Run, and the other one wanting a story - since he does not want to get his hands - or harp - dirty himself.

I'm already excited at the prospect of trying out the Blade kit in Shadows of Amn. I'll probably post over there in the Baldur's Gate II forums, when I have questions concerning what issues to be aware of when playing a Blade throughout Shadows of Amn and Throne of Bhaal.

Thank you for the reply!

Cren, what mod gives Bards the ability to backstab?

As you know, I generally play without mods. Their ability to backstab is part of the original game and they can only do so in the original Baldur's Gate and not the second one.

So, if you're running TuTu, chances are that you can't do it.

Oh, I forgot to add Knock to my list, which simulates a 100% Open Locks ability.

That's why I asked Crenshinibomn, I hadn't realised Bioware had screwed up and given Bards that ability in BG, glad they sorted it out in SoA, they're cheesy enough as it is thanks to (Ab)Use Any Item.

It's been years since I played vanilla BG, have played Tutu ever since it became available without needing a programing degree! I don't think I ever played a Bard in the original game.