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Thanks for the Heads-Up!

Here is a non RAR file:

Neverwinter Nights 2 - Storm of Zehir- Buy and download it on Atari Store (PC game)

Scroll down to the User Manual tab and PDF file.

It doesn't look like the cross-class feats were applied (..that give a continuation of special abilities like sneak attack.)

In fact the only "major" feat I see on the list is Steadfast Determination.

The "Teamworks" benefits look like fun.

The Swashbuckler got "ham-stringed" though.. Insightful Strike was supposed to be an "attack" enhancement, NOT a damage enhancement (..and a pitiful one at that).

Overall I'm not liking what I'm seeing.

HELLO.. that 2nd level Cleric/Favored Soul spell "Living Undeath" is going to trigger a LOT of controversy and tick off a lot of DM's in the process. Sneak Attack characters have been "hosed" in the past, and this pretty much puts a "nail in the coffin" for them.

Sneak Attack in-effective - CHECK!
Traps in-effective - CHECK!
BAB mediocre - CHECK!
Scripted Battles for little or no chance of sneak attacks or trap setting - CHECK, CHECK, CHECK.

Still Swash 3-12 Weapon Master 7 Bard 1-10 RDD 10 will be nice multiplying all the damage mods on crits (with high AB to boot)

For campaign you could start as a yuan ti with Swash 3 Bard 2 (no exp pen) then go RDD 10 then maybe finish off WM by the end of the game hehe.

Claudius wrote:Still Swash 3-12 Weapon Master 7 Bard 1-10 RDD 10 will be nice multiplying all the damage mods on crits (with high AB to boot)

For campaign you could start as a yuan ti with Swash 3 Bard 2 (no exp pen) then go RDD 10 then maybe finish off WM by the end of the game hehe.

Yeah, but who is going to spend points on intelligence? 13-14 will be the limit (for the Weapon Master's pre-req.s). Maybe add-on what ..6-8 more points of intelligence with an item at the highest levels? At best that's an additional 6 points of additional damage per attack (provided your opponent doesn't have immunity to sneak attacks). A fighter can get +2 to+6 damage from 1-3 feats without using an intelligence boosting item, and without restriction to sneak attacks.

The more I think about how FUBAR'ed the Swashbuckler and Dualist classes are, the more inept I think the developers are. I can of course understand that they wouldn't want someone hitting the 3rd level for the Swashbuckler *just* to gain an attack bonus (rather than a damage bonus as implemented), but the idiots could have easily provided Insightful Strike like this:

Intelligence bonus to attack - class level 3, maximum +1. Additional maximum of + 1 every 3 class levels (i.e. Swashbuckler class level 6 +2 max., class level 9 +3 max.).

yeah +x AB is better than +x damage for sure. I'm telling you its still a nice class in some builds. Maybe not the build I mention though I am sure that one wouldn't be that bad. Another thought is that intelligence is good for skills and the damage multiplies on a crit. For my build I might just take the +8 RDD strength and add it on the Yuan ti base (haven't read about yuan ti but that might be 14) I'm saying the break point for when str costs 2 pts. Then start with max dex and pump dex. You'd have good AC/AB and would still have crits/damage with 10 Bard levels you'd have some useful spells but you'd lose an attack. Or you could go more swash.

What is the PnP rule on swash anyway?

Yeah, it isn't a bad class..

But it doesn't have any compelling reason to choose it over other classes EXCEPT for the intelligence damage bonus - and even then only when you don't expect to get into epic levels (where Combat Insight would be preferred).

1. it has a high bab
2. you can get the damage bonus with only 3 levels.

Basically it removes both the Dualist and Invisible Blade classes from most Wizard multi-class configurations. Spend fewer levels; spend fewer feats and potential attribute requirements; get a greater potential for damage modification. The cost is a potential multi-class problem with exp. points, but a racial Wizard favored class negates this.

In other words its existence will almost exclusively be:

Wizard 7/Swashbuckler 3/Eldritch Knight 10 Race: Sun Elf or Drow.

Insightful combat *may* also double up with Combat Insight.. that would be cool, but I doubt it.

If it stacks with the damage bonus from either the Invisible Blade or the Dualist - then I could also see potential there.. but only for 3 levels again.

I don't remember what the p'n'p version is. (..I was going by what I thought I remembered from viewing the bioware board discussion on this class as p'n'p vs. as expected in-game.)

I think it will stack with combat insight. And the swash abilitity is actually better anyhow because it stacks with strength. Which is nice if you are lugging around a big mess of stuff in a budget bag of holding. Ten strength is great for minmaxing but it is brutal in terms of playability. Also combat insight costs an epic feat while the Swash is just a class feature!

Also opens the door to dexer clerics with insane AB, skills, and ok damage per hit.

I think the deal with rogues is they keep rogues in the game to appeal to rogue lovers. But then they make it so all they do is pick a lock (knock/bash anyone). They need to grant precise strike as a level 1 rogue ability and upgrade that to Double Precise Strike in epics. I will admit that HIPS is still insane even without sneak damage.

Claudius wrote:I think it will stack with combat insight. And the swash abilitity is actually better anyhow because it stacks with strength. Which is nice if you are lugging around a big mess of stuff in a budget bag of holding. Ten strength is great for minmaxing but it is brutal in terms of playability. Also combat insight costs an epic feat while the Swash is just a class feature!

Also opens the door to dexer clerics with insane AB, skills, and ok damage per hit.

I think the deal with rogues is they keep rogues in the game to appeal to rogue lovers. But then they make it so all they do is pick a lock (knock/bash anyone). They need to grant precise strike as a level 1 rogue ability and upgrade that to Double Precise Strike in epics. I will admit that HIPS is still insane even without sneak damage.

Fix sneak attack - that's an excellent idea. They should also double the damage of traps generally. For sneak attacks even a 3rd of the damage (on critically immune opponents) would be acceptable IMO. I'd also like to see a restriction for rogue classes on sneak attacks that make them more or less damaging depending on less or more armor.

HIPS is nice, but in addition to a "5 second cool down" I'd like to see an additional 10 seconds (while hidden) before another offensive action can be taken. I think that would match feint's weaknesses better (..but differently).

On the "flip side" though I'd like to see potions that can be quaffed a lot faster than they currently are. Remember the assassins in the bridge district of BG2? #3 here:

Baldur's Gate II @ GameBanshee

I'd like to see a viable "drink invisibility potion then sneak attack" maneuver like they had.. for a different type of sneak attack.

.................

True - I'd forgotten that Combat Insight doesn't work *with* strength damage.. BUT I'd question most builds that have much strength damage for the Swashbuckler, it is after all a "weapon finesse" character - likely very high dexterity.

Perhaps a Fighter/Swashbuckler/Invisible Blade/Neverwinter Nine - dual wield kukri, good feint, maximum BAB, weapon specialization & focus, good non-armored AC, ect.. Hmm, sounds good for a Yuan-ti..:mischief: Combat Insight at Epic levels.