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Okay, so I murdered Whilhelm the Worm in his house in an effort to join DB. He was not asleep but he didn't escape or anything. I attacked him before he attacked me. He is now very much dead. I didn't get a message saying "dark forces have observed your deed" or whatever and therefore Lucien hasn't visited me. I checked my character's stats and it's says that i have no murders. What did I do wrong?

I maxed his disposition before killing him; could this have been the issue?

Thanks in advance...

that guy is the first fence you get for the theives' guild.

he was an important character maybe that's why. i suggest just go and kill a random non-important character and you'll be good to go :]

and u gotta sleep b4 lucien visits you if u didn't know.

Strange

You would have thought that people like Thieves Guild Fences would have been possibly marked as essential, although saying that people belonging to the Thieves Guild could be classed as bad or evil so maybe you were doing the empire a favor, which is possibly why it did not account as a murder under the circumstances you were expecting.

Wilhelm the worm is not a fence at all. The first fence is Ongar the World-Weary. I don't know if Wilhelm is essential or not but he has nothing to do with the thieves guild Im sure.

I killed him in one blow...

...I've heard that killing someone with one blow will not count as murder. I'm pretty sure he was dead as soon as i hit him with my poisoned sword. Maybe this is what happened?

oops i'm so sorry yeah you're right anrok

I've never had this problem before though the only people I've ever killed to trigger Lucien have been The Gray Prince (this is the usual one) or one of the imperial legion who tried to arrest me when he caught me breaking into Agarmir's house

The Gray prince is killed in the arena,how can killing the gray prince be counted as murder?

Darth_Ruin wrote:Because if you do the optional quest that the Gray Prince can give you before asking him for a match, when you fight, he just stands there so its like killing him in cold blood.

Is it an optional quest? I thought you had to do it before he'd agree to a match?
I don't know, I've always done the quest cos it's worth it just for the training he gives you as a reward.

GrimHarvest wrote:Is it an optional quest? I thought you had to do it before he'd agree to a match?
I don't know, I've always done the quest cos it's worth it just for the training he gives you as a reward.

If you don't do the quest, he doesn't learn about his past, so he doesn't get depressed, and you have to kill him in a fair fight (which doesn't count as a murder).

And I don't want to start an argument about Jack Kevorkian, but if you do do the quest and the Grey Prince decides to commit suicide by not defending himself in the arena, I don't think it's fair for the game to count it as a murder if you assist him, because you can't leave the arena until you kill him. It might be different if you had the option to refuse killing him, but you don't. At any rate, killing him when he doesn't defend himself is one way to get invited to the Dark Brotherhood without the risk of getting a bounty on your head.

Belthan wrote:If you don't do the quest, he doesn't learn about his past, so he doesn't get depressed, and you have to kill him in a fair fight (which doesn't count as a murder)

Well I go to 'foot of our stairs, I didn't know that about him! I've only ever fought him wanting to die, Is he particularly tough to beat?

Belthan wrote: If the Grey Prince decides to commit suicide by not defending himself in the arena, I don't think it's fair for the game to count it as a murder if you assist him, because you can't leave the arena until you kill him

I don't think its fair either both for the Kevorkian reason and because if he counts as murder then so should the other combatants you fought before him.
.

Do you guys just attack him without.....

.....first talking to him? I always exhaust all of my conversation topics, so I talk to him first. He will beg with you, plead with you, more than once, to hit him and kill him. While you do so, he "cheers" you on, until he's dead! (As there's no Emperor or Empress, or even a Governor, up in the stands to look to for either a thumb up or a thumb sideways, or down, the game compensates by not making it an option for you to grant "mercy".) He may consider it a "mercy killing", but apparently Sithis considers it cowardice, or so I'm guessing now, hence why it counts in the "murder" column, instead of in the "people killed" column, or is it "creatures killed"? Both?

But anyway, I've always done the "Origin of the Grey Prince" quest, so I don't know what it is like to play without having done that.

There are mods out there that affect his attitude even if you've done the quest, so that he does fight you, for those who don't like him wimping out because he can't cope with his origin. It makes him angry about his past and he's ready to take it out on you! But I don't have it, as I'm happy with it as is.

Oh, and I think because the Arena Mouth is talking and the crowd is cheering, there isn't room for the message about Sithis's seeing you, because come to think of it, I've never noticed it after all of this time.

I used to think killing the old fisherman with the key to his retirement savings, was intended for thieves and assassins as an obvious bait. But I don't like being baited! So whenever Lucian Lachance disturbs my character's sleep, I don't know how he got triggered, as I try not to trigger him nowadays.

As for the Arena combatants, it isn't "murder" if it is a fair fight it is just killing. The kill is a murder if it isn't fair. In the Arena, death is expected. Who'd attend an Arena or fight in it, if the guards were waiting to arrest you for murder? You get away with it with the Grey Prince, because they can't hear him pleading with you to kill him, for the roar of the crowd. To the spectators it looks like just another fight to the death, so it is treated as such. Seems fair enough to me. No, J.K. never ever occurs to me. I'm tired of hearing his name in the news. I only think of him when others bring him up.

LeoStarDragon1 wrote:Do you guys just attack him without first talking to him?

Oh yeah. Not because my chars eschew dialog, but because long experience in the arena teaches them to come out swinging (or shooting, or casting, or some combination of the above) as soon as the gate drops, or else the other combatant is going to eat their lunch. The first time I did the mission, I was anticipating a battle of epic proportions, so I was accordingly buffed and equipped, and he was dead before I even noticed he hadn't been resisting. I actually let slip the old cliche: "that was easy... too easy". If you don't feel guilty enough after killing him, talk to the gladiator who's always practicing in the bloodworks. (minor spoiler:

Spoiler

That guy was always quite friendly in the past, but after you kill the Grey Prince he's dripping with contempt)

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Subject Continues!

[quote="Belthan"]Oh yeah. Not because my chars eschew dialog, but because long experience in the arena teaches them to come out swinging (or shooting, or casting, or some combination of the above) as soon as the gate drops, or else the other combatant is going to eat their lunch. The first time I did the mission, I was anticipating a battle of epic proportions, so I was accordingly buffed and equipped, and he was dead before I even noticed he hadn't been resisting. I actually let slip the old cliche: "that was easy... too easy". If you don't feel guilty enough after killing him, talk to the gladiator who's always practicing in the bloodworks.[quote="Belthan"]


Hello, Belthan!

Spoiler

He's the one I use, "SetActorFull Name" for and I call him, "Smurfy". He's just Smurfy with you until he becomes a walking guilt trip. I expect him to eventually challenge my Grand Champion Dragonheart, but it never happens. Instead I get to spend quantity time with the Adoring Fan whom I name, "Ernie" often, after the Keebler Elf. (By the way, "Companion Share & Recruit" sort of works with them, in that you can recruit them and re-equip them. But Smurfy keeps returning to the Arena to practice, and Ernie keeps losing his new gear and defaults to his original gear, after a Fast Travel.)