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Ran through the game for a second time the past couple of weeks, and it's much more fun the second time through!! But I haven't gone to meet Poquelin yet. Why? Because I stopped to write out my final stats and left myself plenty of time to run around closing loose ends and finding missing bits and pieces.

So... my first hint is... after you have all six badges and have defeated the Idol, don't go upstairs, go back to Kuldahar, save and quit, then browse on-line for everything you might have missed. By doing this I have been able to pick pocket both Fiddlebender and Orrick in Kuldahar for 4 additional magic items, 2 of which I've sold and two I've added to my weakest character.

And so... my second hint is... do not sell anything to either Nym or the Dirty trader in Wyrm's Tooth. They do not give best price on anything. In fact, once you've got to the friendly ghost level of the Severed Hand, don't use any other dealer than the one there to sell to. The cost to you could be 100,000 at the very least. I was lazy and couldn't be bothered to keep going from Dorn's Deep all the way to the top of the tower and I suspect I lost about this amount of money selling my weapons to the Blacksmith in Kuldahar. Also, prior to the Severed Hand dealer, Orrick (the mage in the tower in Kuldahar) is the ONLY place to give a decent price for clothing (excluding armour), rings, amulets and magic spells, take potions to fiddlebender and only armour and weaponry to the blacksmith. Don't sell anything to the curiosity shop except books, scrolls and keys and don't sell anything to the temple full stop.

So, my final, pre-Poquelin team looked like this (gold value also calculated):

Game time: 443 days and 9 hours.
No significant deaths so no team replacement or amendments (see cleric hints after the stats for details)

Character 1:
Mr. H. Fighter - Human, Lawful Good, Male
AC -12, HP 90, Level 11, exp 942,756
Thaco 8 (1), Attacks 3, Lore 11, Large Swords +++ Short Swords ++
Strength 16, Dexterity 16, Constitution 16, Intelligence 13, Wisdom 13
Save vs. Death 3, vs. Wand 7, vs. petrify 6, vs. Breath 5, vs. Spells 8
Best Kill - Iron Golem, No. of Kills 490, Kills 27% of party

Mithral Field Plate Armour +2, Patriot Helm, Mystery of the Dead (shield), Cloak of Protection +2, Black Wolf Talisman, Gauntlets of Weapon Skill, Ring of the Warrior, The Elfbone Ring of Kiran, Long Sword of Action +4.

Potion of Clarity x3, Antidote x1, Mummy's Tea x1, Oil of Speed x3, Potion of Freedom x1, Black Opal x4, Pearl x4, Garnet gem x1, Shandon Gem x2, Blur Deck, Jester's Bag of Holding.

Total Value of Items Held - 56,328gp

Character 2:
Mrs. D. Fighter - Dwarf, Neutral Good, Female
AC -6, HP 77, Level 11, exp 981,068
Thaco 10 (5), Attacks 2, Lore 18, Axes +++ Hammers ++
Strength 16, Dexterity 12, Constitution 16, Intelligence 17, Wisdom 12
Save vs. Death 1, vs. Wand 3, vs. petrify 6, vs. Breath 6, vs. Spells 4
Best Kill - Joril's Bodyguard, No. of Kills 447, Kills 25% of party

Mithral Field Plate Armour +2, Dead Man's Face (Helmet), The Bitch Queen's Envoy (shield), Bloodstone Amulet, Bracers of Defence AC6, Ring protection +2, Fire Opal Ring, Throwing Axe +2 (Returning), War Hammer (+4).

Oil of the Serpent's Scales x2, Antidote x1, Mummy's Tea x1, Black Opal x4, Pearl x4, Garnet gem x1, Waterstar Gem x2, Conlon's Hammer, Blur Deck, Pale Justice, Arrows +2 x80, Arrows x8, Bullets of Fire +2 x3 (was carrying those last missiles for someone else).

Total Value of Items Held - 54,669gp

Character 3:
Mr. E. Ranger - Elf, Lawful Good, Male
AC 0, HP 86, Level 11, exp 980,189
Thaco 10 (1), Attacks 3, Lore 11, Bows ++ Crossbows ++ Spears ++
Strength 13, Dexterity 15, Constitution 16, Intelligence 10, Wisdom 14
Save vs. Death 7, vs. Wand 9, vs. petrify 8, vs. Breath 8, vs. Spells 8
Best Kill - Iron Golem, No. of Kills 628, Kills 35% of party

Black Swan Armour, Helmet, Symbol of Solonar Thelandria (Amulet), Boots of Speed, Ring of Lesser Resistance, Kaylessa's Ring, Long Bow of Markmanship, Repeating Light Crossbow.

Potion of Healing x4, Antidote x1, Mummy's Tea x1, Black Opal x4, Pearl x4, Aquamarine gem x1, Star diopside Gem x2, Arrows +2 x253, Translocation Arrows x6, Bolt of Lightning x40, Arrows of Fire x8, Hammer Arrows +1 x20, Acid Arrows x40, Inferno Arrows x10, Arrows of the Hand x29, Arrows of Piercing x40.

Total Value of Items Held - 63,812gp

Character 4:
Mrs. H. Thief - Halfling, Neutral Good, Female
AC 0, HP 47, Level 14, exp 976,269
Thaco 14 (10), Attacks 1, Lore 42, Missile Weapons +, Daggers + Short Swords +
Strength 13, Dexterity 19, Constitution 14, Intelligence 12, Wisdom 12
Save vs. Death 6, vs. Wand 4, vs. petrify 9, vs. Breath 13, vs. Spells 5
Best Kill - The Idol, No. of Kills 141, Kills 7% of party

Studded Leather Armour +2: Shadowed, Buckler, Pearl Necklace, Bracers of Defence AC8, Ring of Shadows, Eidan's Legacy Ring, Short Sword of Health +4, Edley's Sling.

Oil of Firey Burning x2, Antidote x1, Mummy's Tea x1, Potion of Firebreath x3, Potion of Explosions x1, Emerald x2, Black Opal x4, Pearl x4, Star Diopside gem x3, Shandon Gem x1, Waterstar Gem x1, Chrysoberyl Gem x1, Dart of Stunning x13, Bullets of Fire +2 x80, Bullet +2 x200.

Total Value of Items Held - 39,821gp

Character 5:
Mr. H. E. Cleric - Half Elf, Neutral Good, Male
AC -6, HP 72, Level 12, exp 980,054
Thaco 14 (12), Attacks 1, Lore 22, Clubs + Flails + Hammers + Quater Staves +
Strength 13, Dexterity 8, Constitution 15, Intelligence 12, Wisdom 18
Save vs. Death 6, vs. Wand 10, vs. petrify 9, vs. Breath 12, vs. Spells 11
Best Kill - Yxunomei, No. of Kills 39, Kills 2% of party

Bathed In Blood, Blessed Helm of Lathander, The Argent shield, Pearl Necklace, Bracers, Ring of Sanctuary, Ring of Holiness, Sanctified War Hammer +2.

Potion of Invisibility x5, Antidote x1, Mummy's Tea x1, Black Opal x4, Pearl x4, Aquamarine gem x1, Star Diopside Gem x2, Entangle, Prayer, Slow Poison, Flame Strike x2, Chant, Protection from Fire, Protection from Acid, Cure Serious Wounds, Find Traps.

Total Value of Items Held - 59,473gp

Character 6:
Mrs. H. Cleric - Human, Neutral Good, Female
AC -5, HP 53, Level 12, exp 956,532
Thaco 14 (10), Attacks 1, Lore 19, Flails + Hammers + Maces + Quarter Staves +
Strength 14, Dexterity 12, Constitution 14, Intelligence 12, Wisdom 17
Save vs. Death 6, vs. Wand 10, vs. petrify 9, vs. Breath 12, vs. Spells 11
Best Kill - Malavon, No. of Kills 41, Kills 2% of party

Full Plate Mail +1, Sune's Laurel of Favour, Large Shield of Strength +1, Gold Necklace, Bracers of Defence AC8, Gold Ring, Gold Ring, Morning Star +4: Defender.

Antidote x1, Mummy's Tea x1, Black Opal x5, Pearl x3, Aquamarine gem x1, Star diopside Gem x2, Wand of the Heavens, Remove Paralysis, Remove Curse, Protection from Lightning, Insect Plague, Champion's Strength, Spike Stones, Hold Person, Remove Fear, Silence 15' Radius x2, Protection from Fire.

Total Value of Items Held - 38,824gp

Total cash of Team 317,163gp

Total value of Team 630,090gp

This worked as a dream team for so many reasons, but my main hints for playing this team are as follows:

The AI of the game is set so the bad guys often go for the weakest character and kill of someone just to slow you down and annoy you. By having two Clerics in the team it confuses the AI as no matter which one it attacks, the other can be there to repair the damage. A great example was in the Archer's Tower in Wyrm's Tooth, where almost any team is guaranteed at least one death - normally the Wizard/Cleric. I had two, so when it killed one, the other just resurrected him, who then in-turn resurrected my dead fighter. So much walking and money saved here, just went straight upstairs and slept it off.

Also, the AI likes to spring monsters on the back of your team, with both members at the back of the team being semi-fighters, I never once got stung by an assault from the rear. The Clerics are much slower at hitting opponents than fighters, but can normally hold their ground until a fighter is available, and can aleways just keep healing each other aswell.

The final stats for numbers/percentages killed is also very misleading. The Clerics' best feature was the double summon undead spells, which often doubled the size of my group to that of small army, and, with good pause and control of these summons, one could pass entire levels without so much as a single dropped HP or need for rest as the skeletons acted as the holding force as my ranged attack pummelled them from afar, my fighter/s just acting as a standby incase any made it through.

Hence my archer seems like my biggest killer, but in-fact each opponent from the word go was equally pummelled by both the archer and the thief (who specialised in bullets/slings. The archer just fired quicker and so got more kill-shots. Then, after the find of the throwing axe at the end of Dragon's eye, each kill was normally met with bullets, arrows and a throwing axe (and about 4 skeletons), my secondary fighter becoming a ranged attacker and reserve fighter from here on in. For example, I cleaned out the entire Ice Salamander Zoo in one operation with 4 summonings, some careful pause and play troop movement and lost zero HP to any member of the team. The Frost Giants were harder because they tended to kill the skeletons in one bash, but the AI still made the Giants chase the Skeletons first as they saw them first, allowing for lots of arrows before I needed to drain my Fighter's HP.

I was thereby able to put all of the best thaco and AC armour on just one main fighter and get him to thaco 1 and AC -12. My test at the end showed this guy could take on two Ettins in fair combat and be unlucky to get a scratch, though 5 in row, one-by-one did leave him struggling for aid by the last one.

...Continued in reply #1

Continued from OP

The doubling up of Clerics also provided for some stunning battle combos which enabled the front fighters a very easy passage through those bad guy's who meet you as you enter a room and don't give you time to summon a defensive wall. In the early part of the game, one could therefore cast Curse and Bless at the same time, instantly making the bad guy's quick fodder. This was improved greatly as soon as the Clerics had learnt Prayer and Recitation, which could then be cast simultaneously to render the bad guy's even more sword through butter fodder.

And the value of the true battle worthyness of the Clerics can be seen by thier best kills, Malavon and Yxunomei, the two hardest end of level bad guys. They only need a few spells, and Magic Stones are one to be kept in quantity. The best tactic I can advise for any spell dealing bad guy is not to worry your main team with finger of deaths and the like, but just to surround the guy with Skeletons, he uses all his magic up on them and then runs at your fighter with a dagger if your ranged attack hasn't already left him a pile of robes lying on the floor.

The only bad guy I had more than one reload to defeat was Madame Illmater and her hoard of Fire Giants. What a nightmare. The main problem was that she was so small and they were so big, I couldn't see her, or my own characters in the melee, all I could see was my characters dying at the hands of the madame's lightningly quick and accurate blade. Basically the giants are easy once she's dead, it's trying to spot her and stop her without losing too much HP that is the problem.

Throughout this game, and in most I play, I just forget to use potions. I never really need them, I sell them all except HP and the odd spell protector for a front-line fighter such as Freedom and Clarity. Hence you'll notice that even the ones I find I do use I still have quantity left at the end of the game. Try and live without them and the game will seem much easier in the long run as you base your game of routine and tactics rather than brief spells of easy then spells of hard battles depending on which potions are to hand.

Likewise, I never really use the Cleric spells I find rather than learn. I just keep them for emergency and, most of them, aren't really good for an emergency anyway. Symbol of Pain was great for exposing all the invisible thieves outside Marketh's Palace however...

Finally, you shouldn't really be buying anything from the shops unless it's really really what a character needs, such as the +4 AC shield from Nym. Save all your money to buy your ranged attack force +2 arrows and bullets and Arrow/Bullets of fire/acid, these are great in an emergency or to quickly drain a big bad-guy's HP from a safe distance.

Mages, Druids, Bards, Palladins, fun to play around with but ultimately just pains in the proverbial in terms of dungeon tanking. With my group above it was the 4th group I've made for Icewind Dale, and never before have I had a group so easy, smooth and routinely efficient. The Clerics set the battle scene with either summons or recitations, then the archers let loose and the fighters finish off any remains and the Clerics heal any that need healing, move on to the next bad guy, maybe stop for tea during battle, which was great for example while battling the litch for which you need to find his gem in order to destroy him. Skeletons summoned, job done, he loads up sanctuary and goes on the hunt. The other Cleric is always there if someone needs a patch-up.

Just another review of this great game. Maybe you haven't seen this style of gameplay before, maybe you have, hope it's helped!

I don't agree with some essential things there.
Your party's stats range from decent if you stretch the word over mediocre to weak. FTR with 17 INT and only 16 in physical stats, Cleric with 15 CON, 8 DEX, and so on.
Mages, Bards and Druids are probably amongst the most powerful teammembers for IWD, due to their great offensive spells and the songs. I know several IWD players here will agree with me on this.
Paladins can be just as effective as Fighters, especially with HoW installed. If you can, play that as well.

Indeed!

Ah, my stats, yes. The strength, dexterity, etc. This is an aspect of the game which throws a lot of people, such as myself, who never played D&D type game before the advent of computers. These games always ask you to guess what will be the best stats for your character without ever telling you the benefit and purpose of each. They just say fighters should be strong, wizards intelligent and clerics wise etc etc. Like most people I get to the end of the game then look on-line for solutions and find a load of people explaining the exact stats each character should start with. In Icewind dale, the opportunity to change your stats is virtually non-existent, and a lot of people will be spreading their stats thinking that the game will give them opportunities to up the weak areas later. The common annoying thing with Icewind Dale is that there's a belt which gives your character 19 strength, but only if they have 18 strength anyway, which is already plenty enough to play the game with.

I was used to the Role-Play format pre-computer play as I used to play Fighting Fantasy, a simpler version of D&D more for younger children. In this one only had Strength and Stamina to consider - Strength gave you your defence and attack rating and stamina your hit points, strength rolled on 2 six sided dice and stamina rolled on 3 six sided dice. Obviously, most kids just gave themselves 12 strength and 18 stamina !! :laugh:

Similarly, here, once you know what you're doing, you just max out the relevant fields and leave the rest to languish. You'll notice I didn't even bother writing in my characters charisma stats. In this game charisma doesn't improve buying and selling and is only really there for the Bard character. Like the kids with fighting fantasy, those in the know just 'cheat' and max everything out. And the computer games permit and encourage this. A serious player would always traditionally have just accepted what their dice rolls gave them, even if it was Strength 3 and charisma 18 for a fighter.

But I digress, we have the freedom to max out so one would be a fool not to. I chose to be a bit of a fool and deliberately downplay my stats to see if it made any difference to the completability and general game ease. And since I had two fighters and two clerics, this was a great opportunity. My idea was to find out if an intelligent fighter was less prone to confusion and command attacks than a dumb fighter. Generally, I found my Dwarf fighter held up better than anyone else in the party against Greater Mummies, Blue Myconids and mages and the irritating Umber Hulks. Looking on-line however, this may just be due to my fighter being a Dwarf. I couldn't find any info on-line about intelligence stats helping to protect against mental attacks.

The discovery I made with this team that made it so exciting for me was the fact that the stats really didn't matter much as the team relied so heavily on battle tactics and routines rather than one-on-one combats, maxed out potion fuelled frenzies and run and strike type hoo-haa's. It was like playing in non-cheat mode and taking a rag-tag of kind-of-realistic stat'ed characters and still doing as good a job as a team of max'ers.

I must admit you are correct about the lack of area effect spells available to a team without a mage or druid. The clerics don't get any of these until the highest level. Many a time during a battle I would see my clerics standing idle and try to find a spell they could cast to splat a group of Whyts or orcs, but to no avail, nothing there. But then this didn't really matter because thier main area effect spells of bless, chant, prayer and recitation made the bad guys so useless that even the Drow's couldn't hit my docile archer, let alone my weaker but more intelligent fighter.

When I did use a mage it was fun, I have to admit, but it was such a pain waiting for him to get to a decent enough level to be effective, all those pay-outs for resurrection etc, and all those blind panics everytime even a Goblin went near him. But once they get to self sustainable level they are fun indeed for a few dazzling shows. The Druid I played seemed dull and often ineffectual, with often dumb spells, but some cool ones aswell. What irritated me most about both the Druid and Mage was that their spells often just didn't work when they were really needed and just made killing the small fry more of an entertainment than an operation.

OK, I admit, in Icewind Dale I haven't even bothered trying the Paladin and Bard yet. But then maybe I haven't heard anything to convince me to yet, either in the game or on-line. I did try HoW, but found it quite boring and can't even remember if I completed it. If that's the one with the Dragon in the jungle then that fight was fun, but not a lot else. (You get the dragon to follow you to where the strange friendly tribesman stand in a circle - they then surround the Dragon while you attack it! Took me a fair few loads to get that one! Lonely Wood was crazy and right up my street, the closest Icewind Dale has got to Neverwinter Nights in my opinion. To be honest, I quickly moved onto Icewind Dale ll, but this again was not so much fun as the original.

HoW hasn't got any dragons in a jungle, as far as I remember. What it does do, however, is giving Druids, Clerics and Mages better spells (and the classes that use their lists as well) and give the Bard some kick ass songs.
BTW, near the back of the IWD manual is a list with table a that explains what each stat does.

Charisma DOES effect buying prices.

If this were an "ideal" team, you'd have picked better stats.

If this were an "ideal" team, you'd have picked better characters as well.

You claim to have played D&D in the past, but then wonder if INT will affect a Fighter's resistance to spells?? WIS helps here, INT has nothing to do with it (BTW, that rule was not implemented into the game).

An "ideal" IWD team needs a multiclassed Thief (because a single classed one isn't very useful). An "ideal" IWD team has any character entering combat be either multi- or dual- classed as a Fighter or a Ranger. An "ideal" IWD team has a Paladin in it, since he's the only one who can use the Holy Avenger sword. An "ideal" IWD team has maxed out STR, DEX and CON stats for everybody (except for anybody who isn't multi- or dual- classed with a warrior class, they can have a 16 CON).

If you had fun with your party, then the game's mission was accomplished. Anything above this last line has to do with powergaming, which IMHO, is what is "ideal" in a hack n slash game like IWD.

You claim to have played D&D in the past

Nope.


Anyway...

Yes, powergaming is different from general gameplay. And most people who play the game of the shelf in the shop are not experts, so when they come on-line they just need to know what helps them get through the game. Not what enables them to do it as quick as possible, but which makes it as less 'complex' as possible. Icewind Dale is not entirely hack and slash, there's a great story here, and as others have noted, one which actually makes you fell for the characters. Hack and Slash is a big element, but max'ed out stats are not at all important for regular gameplay. As I said, my team managed to pass entire levels withot a single dropped HP. How can you get more "ideal" for a casual player?

What I don't get is why the game gives one the opportunity to amend stats at the beginning. If each character has pre-defined maxed out stats as a reguirementr, why doesn't it just give you those max's to begin with? Why all the need to hunt around on-line for the actual meaning of Dexterity?

And Charisma didn't effect any of the prices I was given in Icewind Dale when I toured all the dealers at the end to find out who was giving the best prices, it was flat rate for all of them from Charisma 3 to Charisma 10. The dealer at the Severed Hand offers three quarters of Kuldahar selling price for pretty much most things I analysed. Even with Charisma 18 I doubt it could be much more. I'll try again at some point with a Charisma 18 to double check.

You only notice the price difference from CHA 16 and onward.
Like I said before: you don't have to go online to find the meaning of DEX. Just read the manual. It comes with your game for a reason.

No manual with my game, 3 in 1 box set. If it's in some kind of Read-Me file, then it's no wonder most people miss it.

Anyway, why does the game give you the option to weaken your stats at the beginning?

It probably is in a pdf on the game cd.
The tweaking of the stats is there for ease-of-use. I wouldn't even touch a game that would force me to play with rolled stats which I can't alter in any way.

I know. Why not just start out with pre-defined max'ed out stats? What's the reason for the tweaking? What do you tweak? Other than to make a fighter 18 STR and 18 Dex?

The dice rolling was the way to get your stats in D&D Second Edition.
Some people obviously don't care about stats.
There are also varying degrees of tweaking: not every character needs everything maxed.
I give all my characters 18 DEX, 18 CON (16 if non-warriors). In addition, those that will see melee-combat get 18/51+ STR, Clerics & Druids get 18 WIS, Wizards and Bards 18 INT, and Bards and Paladins get 18 CHA. For Bards I try to lower WIS not too much.

Some more hints

I've just spent a couple of days running my team through the Dorn's Deep level with the Myconids and Ettins. These monsters regenerate in my version, so every time you leave the area and come back, they are all there again in exactly the same place.

While trying out the strength and skill of my team by using this as a good training exercise area, I have also been able to discover the following points:

1. Ettins have 70 HP and Myconids 40 HP.
2. A Lore of 11 is enough to identify Mummy's Tea potion, Lore of 22 is enough to identify Arrows and Bolts +1 and Lore of 42 was able to identify a Short Bow +1 and Arrows of Fire. No team member was able to identify a Potion of Invulnerability.
3. Summoned (by Cleric spell) Skeletons can carry the following weapons:
Short Bow +1 (very lucky)
Arrows of Fire (Very lucky
Arrows +1 (Quite often)
Composite Long Bows (Very lucky)
Long Bows (Fairly lucky)
Short Bows (common)
High Quality Long Swords (Quite often)
High Quality Maces (Quite often)
Two Handed Swords, Bastard Swords and losts of low value equipment (usual)

This is a great way to improve your arrow stock if you are low or to generate some quick cash if needed. Just make sure the Skeleton Archers don't get to fire off any arrows before they get destroyed by the monster.

4. Jester's bag of holding has provided the following items:
Cure Critical Wounds
Flame Strike
Grease
Skydrop Gems x2
Aquamarine Gem
The yellowy oval Gem
Blue Potion of Health
Red Potion of Health x2 (don't know if these work or not)
Elixir of Health x4 Potion of Invulnerability
20x Bolt +1
Dagger
and
A Dead Cat
+ possibly some other stuff from earlier in the game I've forgotten about.

5. I've also discovered that the Ettins do not like the Myconids. If you can't be bothered to wade through them all, a neat one off fun trick to play is to Shadow your thief (if they have VERY effective shadow skill) and send them off with a summoned Skeleton. The Ettin or Ettins will follow the Skeleton while you lead the way into one of the Myconid patches. Once there, let the Ettin kill the Skeleton then watch as the Ettin pounds every Myconid in view. Oddly, the Myconids do not fight back but just sit there and get pounded. The Ettins then remain in that place. It's very easy then to clear a path between exit and bridge with zero fighting. One warning however is that next time you come into the cave I think it alters the quantity and placement of all the Myconids and Ettins, not totally sure, most are back in place, but I was met with 7 Myconids the following time instead of the usual 5.

6. From my trials (where I let one party member see how far they get in this level without help), The 'weak' fighter Dwarf with the Returning Throwing Axe and a War Hammer +4 came out best with 5 Myconids and 4 Ettins, with the powerful fighter and Cleric only managing 5 Myconids and 3 Ettins each. Both the Thief and Ranger couldn't get past the Myconids without being Berserked, Paralysed or otherwise immobilised. The Thief can kill an Ettin with 2 good backstabs, but the Ettins seem to have lightning reactions and almost always get the Thief with a big blow as soon as the backstab has been effected. The Ettins seem to have some special lash-out-skill for every time they are damaged.

I'll add more if I find out more!

For those tests in your point 6 to have any meaning, you'd have to run them several times and write down the results. Since almost every action is determined by a roll of a d20, there's quite some variation.

Did it loads of times. I was going to try and work out the math for the Ettin and Blue Myconid AC's and Thac0, but my head hurt, lol.

The reason the Dwarf fighter did best was because of the Returning Axe. If either the main fighter or Cleric had any ranged weapons, then they may have improved. The axe was able to get about four shots in before the Ettin caught up.

The fighter tended to get hit about 1 in 8 times for 9-21 damage. It took about six swipes for him to kill the Ettin excluding Critical Misses and Critical Hits at 9-18 damage. The Myconids could only hit him with Critical Hits, which they tended to be quite lucky with @ -18 to -22. So one hit from five Myconids and two hits from 3 Ettins on average left him with abt 35 HP, from which he decided to quit for safety's sake.

The Cleric was fine against the Myconids as the Skeletons and Mummy's held their own until the Cleric had dispatched them. The Cleric was hit very regularly and easily by the Ettin for big damage, so the thee Ettins were taken with one surrounding party of Skeletons/Zombies adding 10-20 damage if lucky plus the Cleric hurling Magic Stones and Flame Strikes, then running when all spells had expired.

The weaker dwarf got struck by the Ettin about 1 in 4 times, making the match about even as the Dwarf had not enough HP to consider another by the end of the fight. So by reducing the Ettin's HP with the Throwing Axe first, the 1 in 4's only counted for 1 hit per Ettin. As the Dwarf tended to not suffer any Criticals against the Blue Myconids, due to the first few strikes being ranged, the Dwarf was able to go that extra Ettin.


(by the way, can someone please do something about the write more than 3 sentences and you log-out problem on the boards?... What's with that? Don't like droners? :laugh:

Heart of Winter

I was right, I didn't complete this game last time I played it. I could only remember up to the point where all the Barbarians kill the Wyrm Barbarians. Looking back I also seemed to think I had to do something with Purvis and and the Wizard at the Tavern, this time I forgot to do even that before going off to Ice Island Glacier. Ho-hum. I think the reason I quit the first time was because the Barbarians wouldn't take me back to Lonely Wood, that is so annoying it's unreal. Playing as expansion only, it's totally pointless finding any treasure on this Glacier, and it's full of treasure! There's not even anyone to identify the stuff, let alone sell it to. The one drawback to my party formation is that no-one can identify anything.

I guess in the full version where you go back to Kuldahar you would at least be able to see the stuff you managed to carry, even if it means fighting the end boss Dragon with full backpacks. 70kg of Mithral Armour? No chance! (yes, my thief just about managed to ID the Mithral. But what of all those +1 shields and spears and Coral and Shark Armour? Let alone all the other bits and pieces. If in situations like that, can't it just drop Gold Pieces and save the baggage re-organisation headaches? What is the point of a pointless drop? Anyway, my thief could identify the all important Flame Bolts, and for obvious reasons, they seemed to be the only weapon which enabled me to slay the Dragon and leave myself more than two people left alive to fight the remaining Frogmen.

Heart of Winter was a fun add on expanson up until Gloomfrost, then it got addicted to throwing boring monsters at you unimaginatively and in ridiculous quantity. The original Icewind Dale used the idea of a big hoard on entering an area, followed by patchworks of different creatures, then another, smaller hoard at the end of the level with slightly stronger boss and henchmen. Heart of Winter, on the final segment, gave you hoards, then hoards, then hoards, then hoards, etc. The ironic thing was that my loan tank fighter could just wander about and kill them all on his own, except for the Golems and Ice Skeletons, then go back to the group and heal up for the next hoard.

My two re-load and re-load battles were with the Polar Bear Spirit and the final Dragon. The Polar Bear Spirit was really strange. Not only did it immobilise 3 of my team every re-load with hopelessness, but also left the remaining two 'Encumbered' due to Strength penalties. I had to figure a way to beat it with just my Dwarf Fighter normally active!?! Really bizzare. As I said, the end Dragon was a big problem until I had figured to use the Flame Bolts. What realy anyed me with the Dragon fight was that my lead Fighter went into battle with 85% Cold Resistance, +5 to AC through Cleric spells (-19AC), all Saves in the minuses, Potion of Clarity, Potion of Speed and Invisibility, and Blur, but still couldn't kill the Frog Priests in time to prevent them dispelling all these effects before he took on the Dragon!!

As with the first run-through I completely missed the Bard quest for the Rose. If you pick the wrong conversation in the first encounter you miss the vital piece of info and then when you talk to him again the option never arises again. Whoops. I still favoured the Long Sword with the extra attack throughout the game, even at 1 less Thac0, also because it gave an extra 1 AC bonus plus resistances. It's kind of pointless having a tank with a Sword which can cast Cure Critical Wounds, if he runs from battle to use it, he's chased by 5 raging beasts about two inches behind. When's it useful? I also keep forgetting the Ranger has spells, lol, I don't think I remembered to cast any with him in this game, and definately forgot to keep adding to his Spellbook.

I must be the only person on earth to have completed both Icewind Dale and it's expansion with only one ring of free action, lol.

My big hint for this game that no-one else seems to pick up on from my searches, my scoop if you will, is, both times I've managed to get the Amulet of the dead Giant Worm in the inaccessible hole in the ground. In fact, it's the onlt time in both games I've found use for the Translocation Arrows. Get the Giant Worm to almost dead, then shoot it with a Translocation Arrow, your archer will appear in the pit. Finish it off and collect the Amulet. Get your fighter to draw out the next (yawn) Ice Golem and shoot that with the Translocation Arrow and you're out! I was just happy to finally find a use for these items. Same with the Inferno Arrows +2- finally found a deserving cause for them in the end Dragon. Acid and Fire Arrows were good for the Trolls, Ice Golems and Giant Worms, but otherwise I found I didn't need any arrows really beyond Gloomfrost. I used 2 of my 160 Entangle Arrows to halt 2 Barbarians... And once again, completely forgot I had a nice selection of Darts.

My really big irritation though was with the Vexing Armour. I had no way to communicate with the outer plane, so I just took the Armour. I experimented with it (saved before putting it on then re-loaded after) and found that I could kill it. The problem was it sent my team Confused. I figured that it would be fun to put it on during the final battle, then have the rest of my team invisible and see if it had a go at the Dragon for me (I had the Resurrection staff to resurrect my dead guy if needed). Unfortunately, I stored it in a chest in the Tavern. Along with lots of my stuff . Well... who's going to carry that about all game on the off chance that this might be the 'End of game lock-in moment'. Still, those 5 Ogres came in handy...

Ideal Team? for Heart of Winter.

The extent to which my tactics were put to the test in Heart of Winter is a matter for controversy. I tried to stay true to the tactic up until the Ice Golem level then abandoned it. The 'Call to Arms' function which comes into play with Heart of Winter is also disruptive. Having a strong line of summoned undead infront of your team throughout your crawl in Heart of Winter works for about 25% of encounters up until the Ice Golems level. It worked well for me against Wailing Virgins, the row of Ghost Shaman, the Giant Worms (as they held them up with amazing ease, those worms could pack a major killing punch, but took their time in delivering it, thankfully), Frost Giants and one last posse against the final dragon. The main reason I stopped the tactic on the Ice Golem level and after was because my fighter was now able to take on all hoards, even up to 10 strong and still have HP left (though 3 or 4 Ice Golems did require back-up), while any accompanying Skeletons just died in 2 seconds, quicker than it takes to summon them...

Spell casting time is something that could be improved. Judging the exact moment to send a Cleric in to the fray to cast 100% Heal spell is quite a fine art, it seems to take Fooooooorrrrr eeeevvvvveeeeeerrrrrr to cast, lol, but then you don't want to waste the spell on a fighter who still has 75% of HP left. I don't know how many times I lost a fighter to the grey death screen as my Cleric just finished the words 'Caaaarrrrriioooooooo' and then watch their yellow circle fall into dust, LOL. It's like, 2 seconds quicker please! I know I saw the Amulet off the Giant Worm said Casting time -2, but I thought this meant 2 slower, not 2 faster. Well... which is it?????? Why aren't there more things that improve casting time?

I'm determined to have another go at this sometime, just to see what this darn Rose looks like and to see how the Demon performs against the Dragon

Talking about Arrows and Magic has just made me realise why this expansion suddenly gets really, really dull from Gloomfrost onwards. It's just one big HP contest. Your party is not met with any ranged attack until the penultimate room. Not penultimate level, just penultimate room. And after the Burial Isle, you are met with no magical resistance either (unless you remember to go back to lonelywood to face the Mage who seeks to imprison the Tavern owner Mage) or otherwise, until the final battle, and those are just back-up fighters.

From Gloomfrost level 1 to the penultimate room your just confronted by big HP monster after big HP monster. It's more a matter of finding out how long your fighter's HP can last out than any kind of team effort. Unless you just have a team of fighters. The penultimate room was different in that it had a bit of variety, but was still mainly just lots and lots of monsters that needed slugging at. It would have been more fun with a quarter of the monsters but each with different abilities. And probably a whole lot harder.

It is true that the thief is fairly useless in this expansion, especially if you don't risk pick pocketing (or generally find it an unpleasant part of the game as I do) with only a few traps to spring, again only in the Burial Isle and in the penultimate room.

Even my second fighter was fairly redundant throughout, occasionally being useful with the throwing axe here and there, but generally just tagging along, as was my Ranger (Archer).

By the Ice Golem level my only really active members were my tank Fighter and the two Clerics who added to his AC and Saves then healed him.

The fun parts were where all got involved, or where one of the other half of the team was permitted to do something. Oh, excitement, a trap to disarm, oh, excitement, an opportunity to use a special arrow, oh, excitement, a chance to use the Berserk Axe +5 and not care if the guy goes berserk, etc etc. (That spare Fighter Dwarf with the Berserk Axe was perfect for hacking away at the Dragon's Soul

The amulet you got from the Rhemorhaz improves casting time, it's the only item in the game which does so.
It's bad for the balance if the casters can cast their powerful spells instantly without fear of getting interrupted.

I'm quite surprised how well your party did without arcane spellcasting power, I hope to hear about how they'll do in "Trials of the Luremaster", the official expansion which you can download for free.

I downloaded Trials of the Luremaster, but it didn't work. I have one of those white icons on my desktop which says "cannot read file either browse for a programme or search on-line to open the file" when you press open. I tried a new expansion only and there's no Halfling in the Whistling Gallows.

Grind.