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Nalia/ Imoen in the late stages of the game(*spoilers*)

Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 8:07 pm
by Bigby's Nose
What missile weapon do you find is the best for these girls in the after-Underdark stages? I know that the Tuiguan Bow +1, the Crimson Dart +3, Gesen's Bow, the Darkfire Bow +4/+5 are the best candidates if you don't include Melf's Minute Meteors, Energy Blades, or the +5 darts from the Cloak of the Stars (or whatever it's called). The problem is that all of them have major drawbacks.

Tuiguan Bow: bonus to THACO is relatively low.
Crimson Dart: damage to target can be low despite extra attack.
Gesen's Bow: many of the toughest monsters are immune to electricity.
Darkfire: only 2 attacks.

I'm starting to think that loading up their level 3 spell slots with Melf's is maybe a good strategy. After all, Skull Trap and Fireball get less useful in the later stages of the game due to the monsters' higher saving throws and higher hit points, and a lot more monsters seem to make their saves against Slow as well. And why use Lightning Bolt when you've got Chain Lightning? That leaves Dispel/Remove Magic, Haste, and Invisibility 10' ft. rad. as the only really useful level 3 spells (but even Haste gets less useful due to Boots of Speed, Whirlwind Attack, Improved Haste, etc.). The problem with Melf's, of course, is that a lot of monsters are resistant to fire. Also, Imoen is a weakling without Strength (or something like it) and can hardly carry Melf's and her equipment at the same time.

Maybe there simply isn't a perfect choice?

I'd appreciate any advice/thoughts. Thanks!

Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 8:35 am
by Coot
None of the weapons and spells are perfect and that's not by accident I guess; it's to keep the game somewhat balanced and challenging.

Imoen is carrying a few different bows with her in my game and she can she use different bows and/or ammo for different situations. The same with spells.

Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:51 am
by Bigby's Nose
Thanks, Coot - I think you're right. Basically, Im and Nali are just relatively weak archers and you can't really change that. I think the best you can do is to use different weapons for different situations, give them the Bracers of Archery if you want, and use Haste/Tensor's if it's worth the trouble. BTW I forgot about the Firetooth +3 throwing dagger, which is probably the least problematic of all of their choices. It does 2d4+3 piercing , additional 1-2 fire damage, and they get 2 attacks/rnd with it. Gesen's only does 2 piercing +the electrical damage and the other bows do 1-6 piercing.

Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 5:44 pm
by Crenshinibon
Try using them as melee fighters (once you can) with all of their protections up, including Shapechange (Greater Wolfwere) and Tensor's Transformation, as well as Improved Haste.

Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 6:24 pm
by Bigby's Nose
Crenshinibon, yeah, I've actually used Nalia to tank the demi-lich in Watcher's Keep in the past. With Tensor's, Spell Immunity:Abjuration, Angurvadal +4, the Short Sword of Mask +4 (I gave her long sword and 2-weapon proficiencies), Stoneskin, and the strength buff from Angurvadal she was able to kill the demi-lich all by herself. She didn't even need any type of Haste. It was somewhat amusing to watch Nalia, of all people, intensely flailing and hacking away at it, head down, cape flapping in the wind like Superman. But this is probably no surprise to you because you've got an excellent knowledge of this game.

Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 7:19 pm
by Bigby's Nose
Oh, specifically about the wolfwere change + buffs : I've tried this and it is a hell of a good time. Bodies, bodies, and more bodies! Carnage, destruction, and mayhem! Very nice. :D

Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 8:28 pm
by Nightmare
I always had them equipped with Thraseron's (sp?) Bow, which you get from Trademeet. Its +3, requires no ammunition, and its arrows go regular speed, as opposed to Gesen's SLOW arrows. Personal preference, though.

Melf's Meteors are always your best bet, at least for missile weapons, at the later stages of the game.

But, when you can make them do insane things with spells (as many listed above), missile weapons can be somewhat pointless.

Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:22 pm
by Bigby's Nose
Yes, I forgot Tansheron's Bow. So many items in this game. When you say that Tansheron's arrows are faster are you referring to weapon speed?
But, when you can make them do insane things with spells (as many listed above), missile weapons can be somewhat pointless.
It's always good to have as wide a variety of tactics as possible. For example, you can't use the Greater Wolfwere all the time because its claws are only +1 weapons.

Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 11:27 am
by Crenshinibon
True, but you can still absorb insane amounts of damage, thus focusing the fire on a single character as the rest of your group pummels your enemies.

I'm not sure what the golem's fists are considered as, but that's massive damage output right there. Especially when coupled with a backstab.

Also, for the spell suggestion, I personally always use Skull Trap, Melf's Minute Meteors or Flame Arrow and usually use them until the very end of the game.

Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:30 pm
by Bigby's Nose
The iron golem also has a +1 attack. Thanks, Cren, these are all good ideas.