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Anybody else dislike the fact that Bush quoted the bible in his speach? I thought we seperated church and state a few years back.

[ 09-12-2001: Message edited by: White Rabbit ]

Here is a transcript of his speach for all of you who missed it:

<BUSH>
Good evening.

Today, our fellow citizens, our way of life, our very freedom came under attack in a series of deliberate and deadly terrorist acts.

The victims were in airplanes or in their offices -- secretaries, businessmen and women, military and federal workers. Moms and dads. Friends and neighbors.

Thousands of lives were suddenly ended by evil, despicable acts of terror.

The pictures of airplanes flying into buildings, fires burning, huge structures collapsing, have filled us with disbelief, terrible sadness and a quiet, unyielding anger.

These acts of mass murder were intended to frighten our nation into chaos and retreat. But they have failed. Our country is strong. A great people has been moved to defend a great nation.

Terrorist attacks can shake the foundations of our biggest buildings, but they cannot touch the foundation of America. These acts shatter steel, but they cannot dent the steel of American resolve.

America was targeted for attack because we're the brightest beacon for freedom and opportunity in the world. And no one will keep that light from shining.

Today, our nation saw evil, the very worst of human nature, and we responded with the best of America, with the daring of our rescue workers, with the caring for strangers and neighbors who came to give blood and help in any way they could.

Immediately following the first attack, I implemented our government's emergency response plans. Our military is powerful, and it's prepared. Our emergency teams are working in New York City and Washington, D.C., to help with local rescue efforts.

Our first priority is to get help to those who have been injured and to take every precaution to protect our citizens at home and around the world from further attacks.

The functions of our government continue without interruption. Federal agencies in Washington which had to be evacuated today are reopening for essential personnel tonight and will be open for business tomorrow.

Our financial institutions remain strong, and the American economy will be open for business as well.

The search is underway for those who are behind these evil acts. I've directed the full resources for our intelligence and law enforcement communities to find those responsible and bring them to justice. We will make no distinction between the terrorists who committed these acts and those who harbor them.

I appreciate so very much the members of Congress who have joined me in strongly condemning these attacks. And on behalf of the American people, I thank the many world leaders who have called to offer their condolences and assistance.

America and our friends and allies join with all those who want peace and security in the world and we stand together to win the war against terrorism.

Tonight I ask for your prayers for all those who grieve, for the children whose worlds have been shattered, for all whose sense of safety and security has been threatened. And I pray they will be comforted by a power greater than any of us spoken through the ages in Psalm 23: "Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for You are with me."

This is a day when all Americans from every walk of life unite in our resolve for justice and peace. America has stood down enemies before, and we will do so this time.

None of us will ever forget this day, yet we go forward to defend freedom and all that is good and just in our world.

Thank you. Good night and God bless America.
</BUSH>

[ 09-12-2001: Message edited by: White Rabbit ]

Well, it's religion that started most of the wars in the word nowadays. And it is at the start of this mess.
But him using this quote in het speach doesn't bother me at all.
(not that I like Bush what so ever()

Yes but what religion (if any) do you practice? I'm willing to bet that you believe in a Christian (or Catholic) god. Whereas I don't. That stated you can probably tell I don't like him much either.

the people turn to faith to console them in time of darkness, white rabbit. i don't think anyone at the momment really cares about your dislike for other faiths. the quote was appropriate for the time.

you should be ashamed of your self to bring your distain of other faiths in the face of darkness.

Oh give me a break jenny, first off I never said I "distain" anything nor did I insult any religion. I simply stated that I thought the quote was innapropriate. Stop looking for a fight, and please stop looking for a fight in my threads or else Buck will shut them down. This thread is meant for a serious discusion not wild accusations and pointless arguments.

are you two married?

I agree with Rabbit, I dont like Bush eather and I dont like religion (but it is not because of religion i dont like bush)
I have a lot to say about religion but that will be most unappropiat to dicuss here.

[url="http://www.gamebanshee.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=9&t=001150"]Religion[/url]

[ 09-12-2001: Message edited by: Garcia ]

Just read this on BBC.

The Taleban authorities in Afghanistan have reportedly offered to consider extraditing the chief suspect, Osama Bin Laden, once they have studied the evidence against him.

[url="http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/americas/newsid_1539000/1539070.stm"]BBC[/url]

never mind.

[ 09-12-2001: Message edited by: Rob-hin ]

@white rabbit

What offends you about the inclusion of that psalm? I am not convinced that by the Pres' use of that quote we are comingling church and state. He seems very consistent with references to his beliefs. Do you feel that as Pres, he should abandon his beliefs? Or just not say them? While I do not necessarily agree with what he does, or his policies, I cannot see where his speech was inappropriate. Would it be different if he referenced something that you believe/agree with?

You stated in an earlier post that you wanted this thread as a serious discussion, so please let us know on what levels you find this offensive/inappropriate.

he has to be a believer to be a pres. since the majority believes in god and he has to repricend the contry he has to be christian too. if he believes or pretending I donno.

Just read this on BBC.
The Taleban authorities in Afghanistan have reportedly offered to consider extraditing the chief suspect, Osama Bin Laden, once they have studied the evidence against him.

That's great and all if it is truly the case but how long will that take. Enough time to anger all of his followers so they will vow revenge when he is taken away. Enough time to appoint the next bin Laden and provide access to his resources.

If in fact they can draw conclusive evidence he is indeed the mind and money behind this atrocity, extraditing him will barely begin to solve the problem. Whichever group is behind this needs to be hit hard and terrorism as a whole needs to be hit hard.


As far as Bush's speeches go, they were concise and to the point. Quoting the bible and it's political correctedness, mostly a non issue. He's only incorporating his own beliefs and the beliefs of a large percentage of the united states into his words. A common ground for the masses. Something most everyone can hold onto. You really shouldn't let something like that bother you right now, the whole planet has been threatened.

It's fine to quote the bible (this is coming from an atheist). Why? Because it's common knowledge. If Bush quoted something from Ishmael, would you have known what he was talking about?

How about the oldest book in existance today, the Epic of Gilgamesh?

The bible is something that the majority of Americans have learned from, and something that everyone knows about. It's a common ground; at a time like this you stick to common grounds to unite the country.

Originally posted by White Rabbit:
<STRONG>Anybody else dislike the fact that Bush quoted the bible in his speach? I thought we seperated church and state a few years back.</STRONG>

A few years back? Try at the beginning of our country. However, you obviously, like much of our country, don't understand what seperation of church and state is.

What that means is that the government will not control the church(i.e., tell us we can only believe this or only believe that and only worship in this way or only worship in that way) and the church will not control the government.

Just remember, this country was founded upon the Word of God. If you want to know more about the details of these things, PM me.

The 23rd Psalm is a fairly innocuous biblical source from which to quote. It speaks words of comfort that are familiar to a large number of Americans, no matter their religion. Far be it from me to support this particular president, but his use of an Old Testament verse is neither controversial nor an indication that the church and state are not as separate as they should be. This verse can speak to anyone’s faith, whether they believe in the deity of the Judeo-Christian tradition or something else (wood nymphs, Coyote, Mystra, etc.). Even so, it should not be taken as an insult. Its just a bit of poetry. Would you have felt the same if he had quoted D.H. Lawrence or Maya Angelou?

BTW, White Rabbit, you did not say the word 'disdain', but you appeared to express contempt and disdain.

Just a reminder everyone...Topics about religion tend to get rancorous. This is already a very turbulent time for people and emotions are high..Just make sure everyone stays respectful of other peoples views.
Please think before you post.
This isn't directed at any post or poster in particular, just a call for reason.

Originally posted by White Rabbit:
<STRONG>Oh give me a break jenny, first off I never said I "distain" anything nor did I insult any religion. I simply stated that I thought the quote was innapropriate. Stop looking for a fight, and please stop looking for a fight in my threads or else Buck will shut them down. This thread is meant for a serious discusion not wild accusations and pointless arguments.</STRONG>

WR, she wasn't trying to pick a fight, why don't you read what she is posting. Quit being so touchy.

Besides people died, what was he suppose to say?? I lost a cousin, yesterday. So IMO, I think your thread and post, is a slap in the face, to those who died. If you have a problem with what I say. You can PM me or Email, and don't worry, I won't run and hide either.

[ 09-12-2001: Message edited by: Darkpoet ]

Originally posted by White Rabbit:
<STRONG>Oh give me a break jenny, first off I never said I "distain" anything nor did I insult any religion. I simply stated that I thought the quote was innapropriate. Stop looking for a fight, and please stop looking for a fight in my threads or else Buck will shut them down. This thread is meant for a serious discusion not wild accusations and pointless arguments.</STRONG>

Everybody knows i'm an athiest denouncing religion, but after what has happened i do thank god for protecting my father and so many people. In time of tragedy faith is all that is left.

I think everyone has to remember the "free exercise" bit. Congress is not to encourage the establishment of any religion, nor is it to prohibit the free exercise thereof. Bush's quoting the Bible was an example of free exercise. He was not attempting to establish a state religion.

If we can't publicly refer to God in times like this, we are in sad shape indeed.

@loner- too true, too true