Unable to use slings?

Magroth · Post by **Magroth** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 12:41 pm

Hello!

I haven't played BG for years, but yesterday I installed it again... I decided I wanted to try to solo as Kensai/mage, something I never did before... I read one of the guides here and made my char pretty much like that one, althought mine had better stats in everything (lucky roll)... Anyways, I got to level 9 and decided to dual-class then as the guide suggested. So far so good, I took one point in Slings but I then noticed I cannot use Any slings in the game. So I simply wonder, why is this? I can specilize in them but not use them? Strange.

rahmen · Post by **rahmen** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 12:59 pm

unfortunetly, kensais cant use missile weapons

Magroth · Post by **Magroth** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 1:39 pm

Yes I know that the class description says so, but I figured that since u could specialize in them and cuz the guide says u should use slings to defeat certain enemies that u could when duel-speccing. Guess not.

Anyone got any suggestions what else to go for? I think I could use darts or staves.

kmonster · Post by **kmonster** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 2:57 pm

For ranged combat the magical throwing daggers do the most damage. Throwing axes are also a possibility. For melee staves are quite good.

You also have a lot of spells for defeaing your enemies.

Magroth · Post by **Magroth** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 7:27 pm

Not in the beginning I don't! I started with 1 magic missile..

But I've done some quests that doesnt involve fighting so I quickly raise in levels

Sensei · Post by **Sensei** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 7:19 pm

for a kensai/mage - the best weapon is of course the longsword - and your second best weapon is the staff - as you are a mage. Unfortunately the kensai cannot use missile weapons but because of certain quirks in the game the kensai is able to use the returning throwing dagger (but you won't get that until you meets the drows - so if you are in the first part of the game you will have a while to go before finding a returning throwing dagger). Besides as a mage you have alternatives to missile weapons - fireball or melf's minute meteors are great for missile alternatives.

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 11:55 pm

For a Kensai/Mage, I *NEVER* use longswords. While I'm leveling up, I'll use scimitars, and as soon as I can, it's almost always the Greater Wolfwere form.

Not that you can use throwing axes as well.

Dradeel · Post by **Dradeel** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 8:13 am

There is one throwing dagger in atkahla that i think is available before the drow. The reward from the gong quest is a boomerang dagger +2. Of course you do need the limited wish spell and I don't know if that is available before underdark. However, if you do have it wish for an adventure like non you have ever experienced. the revard for completed quest is the already mentioned dagger.

Magroth · Post by **Magroth** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 9:07 am

I've never used the limited wish spell, I might do that... About melee weapons... I use katanas, Dak'kon's Zerth Blade and a +1 katana. (DW)... As for my mage time I'll just make due with some random quaterstaff until I get my kensai back.

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 12:01 pm

I recommend that you start buying and hunting for mage equipment before you dual class.

There is a *very* good staff in an easy to get to location, which is a must have for any mage.

Also, to facilitate your time as a mage, you should really use wands and items with abilities. They can be used as substitutes for numerous spells and even if they are costly to recharge, using them is well worth it.

Magroth · Post by **Magroth** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 4:17 pm

Which staff are you refering to? And about the wands, don't they dissappear on use? How do I recharge them? I never really used wands much before... Thanks in advance..

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 9:36 pm

I'm talking about the (spoiler)

Spoiler

Staff of the Magi, which lets you cast Spell Trap, Fireball Lightning (combination of both of the mentioned spells) and turns you invisible when you equip it, as well as put you under the effects of Protection From Evil

.

As for wands, most can hold up to fifty charges. Each time you use it, it goes down a charge and when the number hits zero, you lose the wand. To recharge it, you need to sell it to a store and either buy, or steal it back, and then it will have its' full number of charges. Note that some wands have a maximum of ten charges. There is one wand that comes with fifty charges as a one time bonus, but can never go above ten once recharged.

Saros · Post by **Saros** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 3:23 am

kmonster wrote:For ranged combat the magical throwing daggers do the most damage. Throwing axes are also a possibility. For melee staves are quite good.

You also have a lot of spells for defeaing your enemies.

For a pure class mage or druid - yes. For a Kensai - what? Comparison of throwing daggers and axes:

Throwing daggers have 1 APR more in comparison to throwing axes.

Throwing daggerd do NOT receive Strength bonus when calculating to hit and damage rolls. Axes receive Str bonus when thrown.

Magical throwing daggers: a +2 Boomerang dagger and (relatively late in the game) a +3 Fire Tooth throwing dagger. Magical throwing axes: Hangarth's Axe +2 (relatively early), Azuredge +3 (very early), Rifthome Axe +3 (also early), and +4 Kl'ogarath (late, but a throwing weapon of +4 enchantment...).

In conclusion: while Fire Tooth dagger is undoubtedly excellent damage dealer and spell disruptor, I'd never say it deals more damage than Rifthome Axe or Azuredge. In addition, Axe proficiency gives bonuses to both thrown and melee axes, and there is a good number of potent weapons in both categories. However, wasting points in dagger proficiency just for Fire Tooth is lame, since there aren't good melee daggers in the game - crap like Dagger of the Stars or Boneblade isn't even worth mentioning in comparison to Unyielding axe.

kmonster · Post by **kmonster** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 4:09 am

The magical throwing daggers do grant a strength bonus, I'm not so sure about the axes.

galraen · Post by **galraen** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 9:19 am

kmonster wrote:The magical throwing daggers do grant a strength bonus, I'm not so sure about the axes.

Throwing daggers, magical or otherwise, don't allow strength bonuses in the vanilla game. Throwing Axes do with the exception of Azuredge, which only allow strength bonuses in melee mode. Even if both did or didn't axes would still be superior, but not by as much; 1D6+ damage as opposed to 1D4+ damage.

Saros has a good point about daggers not being worth the invesment in the vanilla game, but you could use Westley Weimer's Under-Represented Items Mod to fix that, which is what I'm doing with my dagger wielding Hobbit berserker at the moment.

kmonster · Post by **kmonster** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 2:56 pm

The magical throwing daggers to 2d4+ (not 1d4+) damage and have an extra attack per round. Highter base damage and 50 percent more attacks per round are enough to outclass the throwing axes even without strengh bonus, but I remember getting it in my patched but unmodded ToB game.

galraen · Post by **galraen** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 5:13 pm

Apologies KMonster, I'd misread 2D4 as 1D4 on Firetooth and the Boomerang dagger, I guess I saw what I expected to see. I hadn't clocked the extra attacks per round either. So if the thrower has less than heroic strength those two are better. I still wouldn't spend proficiency points on daggers just for those though, unless it was for role playing purposes.

So comparing Boomerang with, say, Hanguard's Axe

Boomerang Averages 7 damage when thrown, max is 10 (per attack, 14/20 per round assuming two hits)
Hanguards is 5.5 plus strength bonus, max is 8+, so, per attack, you'd have to have less than 18 strength to benefit from the dagger. However, the extra attack really does make Boomerang a more attractive prospect, especially considering the ridiculous range that Boomerang has.

Azuredge is a curiious beast, against anything but undead in melee mode it's just 1D6 damage plus strength, thrown it's 3D6 no SB. No plusses to hit in either case, just considered +3 for what it can hit.

There's also two types of Throwing Axe +2, One (Ax1H06) is a beast, when thrown it does 1D6+2+SB damage plus it does 10 extra electrical damage which isn't mentioned in the weapon's description, same range as a dagger too. The other one (Ax1H05) is crummy, just 1D6+3, no SB, still has 100 range though.

Rifthome Axe is just 1D6+3, +SB, pathetic range; K'Logarath is the Best in terms of impact, but again has lousy range.

So in summation you pro daggers people are dead right as far as thrown weapons goes, I engaged fingers before brain again. Still rather have my proficiencies in Axes because of the melee benefits though.

As I mentioned I'm currently having fun playing a Hobbit, and I just can't get my head around a creature 3' tall at most wielding anything much bigger than a dagger. I read about someone playing a Dwarf dual wielding longswords recently and almost cracked up at the image that conjured up. What next, a Hobbit Paladin wielding Carsomyr?:laugh:

In context of this thread though, should a Sword Saint (literal translation of Kensei) really be using anything other than a sword?:mischief:

Magroth · Post by **Magroth** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 9:51 pm

My kensai is using swords, I think the purpose of this thread was more the duelling period before my kensai gets reactivated again... can't use my katans then..

galraen · Post by **galraen** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 6:30 am

Magroth wrote:My kensai is using swords, I think the purpose of this thread was more the duelling period before my kensai gets reactivated again... can't use my katans then..

I was just having fun, but if you're power playing, as you appear to be, and exploiting the mistakes made by Bioware, then daggers are obviously the way to go.

Completely off topic, so Fable or another mod will probably cut the following:

When role playing then the debate would be whether a Kensai should be allowed to dual class at all. The whole concept of the class is one ho dedicates their whole life to improving with the sword, straying from that path could be construed as abandoning that commitment, with he permanent loss of all Kensai abilities. Which in turn raises the question, 'Does the Kensai get enough benefits?'. One could argue that a Kensai is almost a Zen 'Paladin' and should have more abilities, with the same sort of penalties as a Paladin should he/she stray from the path. Anyone fancy making a mod with their own version of a Kensai kit?