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I played and finished IWD2 as soon when it came out. Also played and finished IWD, HoW, BG2 and NWN.

I decided to replay IWD2. Now that I think about it. It was pretty bland the first time, boring even. I pretty much played it the role-playing way with:

Human Monk
Aasimar Paladin/Fighter
Shield Dwarf Fighter/Barbarian
Halfling Rogue/Fighter
Aasimar Cleric
Aasimar Sorc


I've just started refreshing myself by reading threads in this forum, along with other sites. Frankly speaking, I became interested because of multi-classing. Not the generic fighter/rogue or Cleric/Mage, but those monk/pal/fighter multis. It has never occurred to me, on my first few plow-throughs a few years back, that splashing a few levels of a class is actually beneficial.

Deep Gnomes? Drows? Rogue/Monk/Dreadmaster of Bane? All of these ideas, though were formulated a few years back, are fairly new to me. I've never realized that all these race/class combinations were actually pretty darn effective.

Now as I sit and construct a party. I've pinned them down to a few specific classes, but I still have a lot of reading to do since there are a lot of viable options out there. I could consider an HoF playable party. But before that, these are the things I've been brooding over that past few days:

A melee-er who can use Holy Avenger, I thought Fighter 4/Pal 3/Monk 3/Cleric XX.
A multiclass version of the monk, basically bare handed with high AC. I'm thinking Rogue/Monk/Cleric.
A Bard...
A Druid...
A healer/buffer(pure Cleric? maybe a shield dwarf)
A Sorc that can engage in melee or has decent ranged attack, if its possible.

Suggestions are very well appreciated. It doesn't have to be HoF-efficient. But it has to be fun and interesting to use, not to mention that it has to be efficient. I would also like to have samples using different races, excluding humans. Another thought is a melee party where everyone can buff and heal, but that's reserved for later pondering.

Thanks! Long live GameBanshee!

edit: party suggestions are also welcome. even an all cleric party is a welcome idea.

Holy avenger isn't that great. The game is nearly over when you find it and 2-handed swords do more base damage and more strength bonus damage. Since the average party level will be lower than 17 at the end you won't get much from a few cleric levels for your first character, the monk level will slow the attack progression too. If you take more paladin levels you'll at least do more damage with holy smites, paladin3/fighter x is also an option, as well as paladin 1-2/cleric xx.


Barehanded multiclass monk doesn't work well. The faster unarmed attack progression is gone as soon as you get BAB from another class (With a BAB of 10 a pure monk has 4 unarmed attacks with AB +10/+7/+4/+1, multiclass 2 attacks with AB +10/+5) and the monk's unarmed damage depends on monk levels.
If you want an unarmed damage dealing monk I recommend half-orc with stats (str-dex-con-int-wis-cha) 20-18-16-1-18-1 who raises str at level up.
If damage dealing is not important for you try a deep gnome and if you only want the AC bonus from high wis one monk level is enough.


Bards are great, their songs improve the other party members' combat power and survival chances a lot. An Aasimar 20 cha and mercantile background would be the optimal support character. 16-18-18-3-5-20 would be powergaming stats, but as sefless bard (s)he can sacrifice physical stats for handling the skills and dialogues which require 18 int for the party and take the stats 9-14-14-18-5-20. There's also the option to take a drow or to start as halfling with a single rogue level for extra skillpoints.


An option for druid is elf with stats 13-16-16-10-18-3 or similar, put 10 skill points into spellcraft so you can take scion of storms.


If you take a shield dwarf battleguard with stats 18-16-20-3-18-1 you'll not only have a healer and buffer, you'll also have a combat monster which will make your fighters jealous.


If you want your sorc to do physical damage, simply raise strength. Wild elf with stats 18-18-18-1-3-18 is one of many options.

kmonster wrote:Holy avenger isn't that great. The game is nearly over when you find it and 2-handed swords do more base damage and more strength bonus damage. Since the average party level will be lower than 17 at the end you won't get much from a few cleric levels for your first character, the monk level will slow the attack progression too. If you take more paladin levels you'll at least do more damage with holy smites, paladin3/fighter x is also an option, as well as paladin 1-2/cleric xx.

But if I decide to play HoF, can I just pick up where I left of from this PC and raise the cleric level right? Maybe I could go pal 1-2/cleric xx like you suggested, then add the 4 fighter levels when I start HoF... Am I in the right wavelength here?

kmonster wrote:Barehanded multiclass monk doesn't work well. The faster unarmed attack progression is gone as soon as you get BAB from another class (With a BAB of 10 a pure monk has 4 unarmed attacks with AB +10/+7/+4/+1, multiclass 2 attacks with AB +10/+5) and the monk's unarmed damage depends on monk levels.
If you want an unarmed damage dealing monk I recommend half-orc with stats (str-dex-con-int-wis-cha) 20-18-16-1-18-1 who raises str at level up.
If damage dealing is not important for you try a deep gnome and if you only want the AC bonus from high wis one monk level is enough.

I'd like the Deep Gnome idea. I'll take 1 level of monk then splash it with something else. Just want to clarify 1st, will wearing armor negate the monk's wis AC bonus? I'm thinking monk 1/fighter-class xx. Or maybe monk 1/cleric xx?

kmonster wrote:Bards are great, their songs improve the other party members' combat power and survival chances a lot. An Aasimar 20 cha and mercantile background would be the optimal support character. 16-18-18-3-5-20 would be powergaming stats

So where do I multi this bard? Assuming I'll only get 5 levels for the luck song.

kmonster wrote:but as sefless bard (s)he can sacrifice physical stats for handling the skills and dialogues which require 18 int for the party and take the stats 9-14-14-18-5-20. There's also the option to take a drow or to start as halfling with a single rogue level for extra skillpoints.

Will this stat build be effective if multi'd into a wiz or sorc so that it will have other offensive capabilities? I've seen bard 11/sorc xx and the like...

kmonster wrote:An option for druid is elf with stats 13-16-16-10-18-3 or similar, put 10 skill points into spellcraft so you can take scion of storms.

I've read somewhere that its helpful to get 1 level of ranger(ranger 1/druid xx). Comments?

kmonster wrote:If you take a shield dwarf battleguard with stats 18-16-20-3-18-1 you'll not only have a healer and buffer, you'll also have a combat monster which will make your fighters jealous.

Noted.

kmonster wrote:If you want your sorc to do physical damage, simply raise strength. Wild elf with stats 18-18-18-1-3-18 is one of many options.

Would taking fighter(melee attack)/rogue(range attack) levels help? I've been reading a lot about monk 1/sorc xx and pal 1/sorc xx, but not used as melee but heavy casters. Speaking of sorcs, is it viable for a fighter class to get sorc levels for haste and possibly some buffs?

Thanks for the quick reply. I've been reading about the JUPP/UPP builds, but I don't think I'll have fun with them unless I go thru HoF.

-Affinity- wrote:But if I decide to play HoF, can I just pick up where I left of from this PC and raise the cleric level right? Maybe I could go pal 1-2/cleric xx like you suggested, then add the 4 fighter levels when I start HoF... Am I in the right wavelength here?

This is also an option. Which is best depends on how exacty you want to play this character. For doing damage you need high strength and big weapons, the rest depends on your playing style. Will you cast "holy power" and similar short-lasting cleric self-buffs before combat with this character ?

I'd like the Deep Gnome idea. I'll take 1 level of monk then splash it with something else. Just want to clarify 1st, will wearing armor negate the monk's wis AC bonus? I'm thinking monk 1/fighter-class xx. Or maybe monk 1/cleric xx?

Deep gnome favored class is illusionist, so you will get an experience penalty. Cleric is the more powerful choice.
If the monk's armor slot isn't empty, you don't get the AC bonus to wis, but mage armor or similar spells work.

So where do I multi this bard? Assuming I'll only get 5 levels for the luck song.
Will this stat build be effective if multi'd into a wiz or sorc so that it will have other offensive capabilities? I've seen bard 11/sorc xx and the like...

A wiz/sorc 5 or even 11 levels lower than he's supposed to be is not really great and high level bard spells can be very useful. The level 11 song is also very useful, one round of singing buffs 6 party members for 3 rounds with lingering song, so multiply the song effect with 18 and ask yourself if there's anything better to achieve in 1 round.

I've read somewhere that its helpful to get 1 level of ranger(ranger 1/druid xx). Comments?

Bad Idea. You'll cripple your spellcasting.

Would taking fighter(melee attack)/rogue(range attack) levels help? I've been reading a lot about monk 1/sorc xx and pal 1/sorc xx, but not used as melee but heavy casters. Speaking of sorcs, is it viable for a fighter class to get sorc levels for haste and possibly some buffs?

A rogue level will actually decrease the physical attack power. A warrior class level will grant proficiency in all weapon types, but spending a feat is cheaper than spending a sorcerer level.

It's viable to add sorc or wiz levels to fighter classes for the "cast on self only" protection spells like mirror image, but most buffs can be cast on such a character by the main casters. Keep in mind that stat points spent for charisma (needed for sorcerer spells) cannot be spent for physical stats.

kmonster wrote:This is also an option. Which is best depends on how exacty you want to play this character. For doing damage you need high strength and big weapons, the rest depends on your playing style. Will you cast "holy power" and similar short-lasting cleric self-buffs before combat with this character ?

Yes. I'm thinking a fighter class that can use self buffs, and can heal him/herself if its possible.

kmonster wrote:Deep gnome favored class is illusionist, so you will get an experience penalty. Cleric is the more powerful choice.
If the monk's armor slot isn't empty, you don't get the AC bonus to wis, but mage armor or similar spells work.

So that means if I want to put in a monk level for the wis AC then I'd have to pick another class that can fight naked...

kmonster wrote:A wiz/sorc 5 or even 11 levels lower than he's supposed to be is not really great and high level bard spells can be very useful. The level 11 song is also very useful, one round of singing buffs 6 party members for 3 rounds with lingering song, so multiply the song effect with 18 and ask yourself if there's anything better to achieve in 1 round.

But is a bard decent enough as a melee attacker?

kmonster wrote:A rogue level will actually decrease the physical attack power. A warrior class level will grant proficiency in all weapon types, but spending a feat is cheaper than spending a sorcerer level.

Noted.

kmonster wrote:It's viable to add sorc or wiz levels to fighter classes for the "cast on self only" protection spells like mirror image, but most buffs can be cast on such a character by the main casters. Keep in mind that stat points spent for charisma (needed for sorcerer spells) cannot be spent for physical stats.

Noted.

So based on what was discussed so far. I'd think my party would be:

Fighter 4/Cleric xx (maybe I could insert a Pal 1 to equip Holy Avenger since I'm planning a dual wielder).

Shield Dwarf Battleguard can I add a few levels of fighter to this one? I was thinking of a battle cleric with a great sword

Bard maybe a DEX build for crossbow? What about bard 11/druid XX? but I think that's an HoF build.

Elf Druid Support caster with melee thru shapeshift

Aasimar Sorcerer Spellcaster

Aasimar Sorcerer 2nd spellcaster. Call it redundant but I'd prefer this over scrolls.

Other Ideas:

Morninglord of Lathander this instead of another Sorc, or replace the druid with this.

pal 1/Fighter/Barbarian plain melee fighter. dual-wield Cera Sumat with rage. Or just no pal 1.


Party suggestions anyone? Though the 2 melee-casters are a must.

Thanks Kmon!

-Affinity- wrote:But is a bard decent enough as a melee attacker?

Doesn't matter. Once you've gained enough songs he'll increase the party's ability to survive and damage output more than any additional tank without doing a single kill himself. If you don't want a support character in your team don't take a bard.

If you don't plan to use axes there's no point in taking Tempus as cleric deity.

Paladin and barbarian can't mix because of alignment restriction.
A 3rd cleric is overkill and definitely less useful than the druid.

kmonster wrote:Doesn't matter. Once you've gained enough songs he'll increase the party's ability to survive and damage output more than any additional tank without doing a single kill himself. If you don't want a support character in your team don't take a bard.

Noted. Forgot that bard also have spells. Just to clarify another point. Do bards usually go for all the way to 17? You gain the last song at level 11 right? Comments?

kmonster wrote:If you don't plan to use axes there's no point in taking Tempus as cleric deity.

Noted. I guess I was trying to do too much with the PC.

kmonster wrote:Paladin and barbarian can't mix because of alignment restriction.

My bad. Lawful good.

kmonster wrote:A 3rd cleric is overkill and definitely less useful than the druid.

Noted again. I haven't used druids before so I'm a bit skeptical.

OK. So after reading a few more references and narrowing down the setup.

Shield Dwarf Fighter 4/Barb X
Shield Dwarf Cleric: Battleguard of Tempus
Aasimar Bard
Elf Druid
Shield Dwarf/Human Cleric: Morninglord of Lathander
Aasimar Sorc

Some PCs look familiar as I've based them from a UPP by Ken Egervari. I'm still reading material about druids, might replace him with something else. I have the weidu mod btw, but only installed those that are considered non cheats EXCEPT the modified shapeshifts.

I'm currently reading thru UPP and JUPP. About high AC and the like, but the penalties are quite steep. The DG Rogue/Monk/Dreadmaster looks quite interesting. I'm also considering a 2-weapon melee-er with backstab.

Comments much appreciated! Thanks!

For continuing from level 11 to 16 bards get spells up to level 6 and the number and effects of lower level spells also improve. 5 levels of another class don't yield that much.

You don't have a dedicated thief for locks and traps, this might be uncomfortable sometimes but it's playable, especially if you have an 18 int character to handle this stuff.

Druids are useful enough to have one in the party even without the modified shapeshifts cheat. In my game the druid did the 1:1 battles for the party.

Can't the bard handle the locks and traps? But the 18 int PC will indeed be a problem...

Any suggestions?

Locks are no problem. If you fail an attempt you can retry until you get a better roll. High dex boosted with cat's grace is more than sufficient to open the locks even if you only get one skillpoint per level and take lockpicking as cross-class skill.
You can even do without any lockpicking skill, simply use the "knock" spell or bash the chests open with brute force.

The traps aren't deadly and can be simply be triggered. For searching and disarming them high int is important, both for the stat modifier and the skillpoints. I think even without rogue level you can find and disarm all traps with good dice rolls.

If you want the extra options a character 18 int gets simply give 18 int to one character. If you want extremely good thieving skills simply give high int and rogue levels to a character. There are many options. You could replace the second cleric with a pure rogue, make the first character a rogue3/barbarian3/fighter xx or similar, make the bard a rogue1/bard x and either accept the multiclass penalty or take another race ...

Oh great! Then I can simply put it:

Human rogue 1/bard xx, with int 18 and cha 18. He can sing, disable traps, and a diplomat too...

I'm still tinkering on the main tank. I've always liked dual wield, but greatsword deals a lot more damage. Reminded that I also need maces for golems.

I'm gonna take a look on the list of weapons available, maybe I could settle my concept there.

Thanks!