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I am going to be starting a new campaign with 4 other players. I want to create a Human Fighter ( Barbarian or Kensai ) and then Dual Class him into a Thief after Level 8. That way my thief will still fo up to level 22. I was wondering if after my thief surpasses my fighter's level will I be able to:
Kensai-
1 - Use the Kai ability while hiding in shadows to achieve a max hit on back stab or will it automatically make me visible?
2 - Will I get the +2 AC bonus? and when?
3 - The +1 hit, +1 damage per every 3 levels of the Kensai...does that start with level 3, or level 4?
4 - the -2 to speed..what level does that start on...4? or do they not count level 1 and start it at 5?
5 - Will I be able to wear Studded Leather Armor? Bracers? if so..what abilities will not be available? Proficient Weapons? AC Bonus? Kai Ability?
6 - Will I be able to use a Short Bow because my thief can?
7 - Which weapon will the thief backstab with? The one with the faster speed?
8 - I'm thinking of dividing the proficiencies either 3-Katana, 3-2 Weapon Style..or 5-Katana, 1-2 Weapon Style, or 2-Katana, 2-Axe, & 2-2 Weapon Style. Any Suffestions...

Barbarian
1 - I'm thinking of Specializing with 2-Katana, 2-Axe, & 2-2 Handed Weapon...any input

General
1 - Since you can only specialize with the Barbarian..and a bit more with the Kensai...if you take a point of weapon specialization within the thief class...will that be added to the total after you gain your Fighter abilities?

Sorry it's so long.
Any information..even if only a few of the answers would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,

Sly

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This might help you if your in a hurry...If you can wait awhile I'm sure someone here will have the answers you need.

Another thing I read while reading through these posts is that there is a special set of rules for Dual Classing? I guess your stats need to be different.

Would a Kensai
18/00,18,18,9,10,8
or a Barbarian
18/00,18,18,10,13,8
be able to dual up after level 8?

By the way...thanks Weasel

The Basics: Character generation
Your basic picks should be Human (so you will be able to dual class later in the game) and Kensai (so you'll be a Kensai/Mage, rather than a pesky Bushwacker/Mage). Additionally, in order to dual class you'll need Strength/13 and Intelligence/17 or higher; high Dexterity is another necessity, because you'll use basic armor. Since you're going to solo you can decrease your Charisma to 3 (if you'll need a higher charisma later, use the Ring of Human Influence for 18 Charisma) and your Wisdom to 3 (unless you want to use Limited Wish later) My Kensai/Mage was: Str15, Dex18, Con16, Wis9, Int17 and Cha7.

Here is one for a Kensai/mage...this might help...


Fighter/Mage/Thief

I chose a half-elf fighter/mage/thief for maximum flexibility. She reached the exp. cap fairly quickly, as she was getting all experience points to herself. The disadvantage is that with the exp cap she maxed out at lvl 11 figher/ lvl 12 mage/ lvl 14 thief.

For the stats I had 9 Str,18 Dex,18 Con, 18 Int, 16 Wis, 8 Char (no patience for endless dice rolls .


I believe for a Thief you need high Dex.

[This message has been edited by Weasel (edited 02-16-2001).]

well, an easy way to pick between a barbarian and a kensai is that you can't dual with a barbarian if that is your plan to go ahead with the thief

Thanks Nael,
I didn't know that a Barbarian can't dual class to a thief..In the manual it says that characters not allowed dual class status are paladins, rangers, or druids. It didn't say anything about Barbarians. I was thinking of Barabrians because of the 12 hit points per level + Con bonus as opposed to 10 for a kensai. I hope you can use the kai of the kensai for a back stab? Has anyone tried it?

Originally posted by Sly:
..In the manual it says that characters not allowed dual class status are paladins, rangers, or druids.

Manual is sadly inaccurate in many places. Rangers can dual to cleric. I believe you need at least a 17 in the primary abilities of the class you wish to dual to, so make sure your kensai has a 17dex and you should be able to become a thief.

With fighters, I like to dual at 6th or 9th as they are levels at which you acquire a weapon proficiency. Note you can bump a proficiency up above ++ with fighters. DO this with your preferred weapon before dualling, as the new profession will limit you to + proficiency. Fighter proficiencies disappear whilst the fighter class is inactive, but you get them back when 2nd class reaches one level higher than the first.

Well, I went with the Kensai...with 3+ in Katana...and 3+ in 2 Weapon Combat. I'm very happy with it. I haven't dualed up yet, I'm waiting till I reach Level 9. I'm just wondering what weapon to specialize with next?

Paladin 8(Cavalier) has 2-H Sword++, Long Sword+
Ranger 8(Archer)has Long Bow+++++
Ranger/Cleric 8/4 has War Hammer?, ?
Mage 9 Staff+
& Me Kensai/Thief 8/0 Katana+++, 2 Weap Spec+++

Just wondering what you would suggest for the proficiency I'll get at 9th. As a Thief I was going to take Short Bow, (To stay out of trouble for a bit , then it's up in the air.

BTW...our first day of gaming was a success. We cleared out the first laboratory...and the tent. I think we missed a few thing in the lab/prison...couldn't free the djeani? also couldn't figure out how to use the energy crystal...but I'll look at the walk through...to see if we missed it or if we have to go back...maybe even do a dedicated post if I don't find it..anyways..enough ramling...

Anyways...Thanks Aegnor

Ok, as mentioned, Barbarian can't dual but I would consider Berzerker. I would recommend going to at least level 9 and if you're not going solo would recommend going to level 13 before dualing. Level 13 gives an extra 1/2 attack which with the boots of speed becomes a full extra attack as well as an additional +1/+1, another Kai, and -2 speed.

Answers to your specific questions
1) You can Kai just before the backstab and still get the modifier. It may make you leave the shadows, but you get a short period of time before that actually happens.

2) You get the +2 AC at level 1. I think it deactivates until you get your fighter abilities back.
3) I believe this starts at level 1...so levels 1,4,7,10,13, etc. (not 100% sure though)
4) not sure on this one
5) No, no armor for a dual classed Kensai...except that mage robes get around that restriction. This is one reason I would recommend the Berzerker as more effective though the Kensai is lots of fun. The other reason is the amazing number of things enrage will protect from.
6) No. You can however use throwing Axes or Daggers.
7) Random 50/50 chance. Not sure what happens if one of the weapons is not backstab eligible...it could either go to the other or just fail the backstab. I recommend using only 1 weapon (Celestial Fury) and using the 1-h weapon skill which gives +2 AC and crits on 19.
8) I recommend 5 Katana, 2 1-h weapon, 2 Warhammer or Flail, 2 Dagger or Axe. Before becoming a thief, make sure you get the 5 Katana and 2 Warhammer/Flail. The thief can get the 1-h weapon and Dagger or Longsword.