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Something for the modders to peruse and ponder perhaps.

past couple of days I have been thinking "Hmmm... would it not be cool if there was a xxx, or if XXX was in the game?" And a swashbuckler post made it evident that I am not alone.

So, let us hear what NPCs you would find cool to have included.

Me:

1. Dwarves, IMO there are too few Dwarves. Even an archetypical Salvatore or Feist one. There is a distinct lack of Dorfs as far as I can see. Halflings as well.

2. Halflings, whether they be Hobbit-like or thieving Salvatore ones. IMO Mazzy should not be the only halfer in BGII.

3. Swashbuckler, even though Swashbuckling originally meant fighting with longsword (swash) and buckler, it has taken on a different meaning these days, more Three-musceteer like... it is the current meaning I am thinking of. The real thing can be seen here [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v= za0AITd0]YouTube - martial challenge wenzel vs. mønsted[/url] it is huge fun to "play at" :-D

4. Anyone who is not a nutter of some sort. Of course there is a propensity to portray the odd man out amongst modders, and it is likely that many mercenaries, explorers, adventurers was/would be the odd man out, but still... some ordinary people are extraordinary just by the fact that they long for adventure, but do not have the skeletons in the closet. Of course that would take away the NPC-related quest for that character, but there are none for Minsc either and I almost always have him in the party...

5. Jarlaxle done right (though he is a mod already himself). I do not mind confronting Jarlaxle with Bodhi, I mind that he is so pathetic. The real Jarlaxle is described as one of the most powerful individuals on Faerun, very efficient fighter, immense magical resources (he virtually radiates magic- when he wants to), resources and connections, and ALWAYS with a trick up his sleeve, he would NOT ever have been killed in Bodhi's lair, if even he joined her. And if he did, he should be provided with powerful motivations as well as personal agendas and the ability to change sides or whisk himself away if in a pinch. Jarlaxle is more slippery than an eel. both the Drow-series and the Sellswords makes that evidently clear. I like him far more than the ever-maudling Drizzt and he is likely a very nasty opponent... Do him right or do not do him! Though I am an incompetent, so I should not criticise those that actually do stuff, still the one we have here is an offense the characters in the books.

If I myself could mod I would make the party of very powerful nemesises I created for hunting a powerfull MERP (RM) P&P party in my own campaign. Much like Irenicus they kept popping up, preventing the quest or getting there first serving the arch-villain (which they were hired to do), hunting and haunting the PCs, sometimes openly, sometimes through proxies. They were so powerful they were unlikely to be defeated unless the heroes could turn one or more of them (the most powerful warrior was designed to actually be sympathetic to the PCs, working for evil against his will but mentally dominated by the other powerhouse, a sorceress). Eventually as the campaign climaxed, the heroes managed to seperate three from the others, kill two and capture one, then turn the warrior leader to their cause. Thus enabling them to clear the way through the two remaining ones and confront the arch-villain behind it all. The sorceress then haunted them for 6 years before a final confrontation made her see the light as well. In the end they both changed sides, not really joining the PCs, but joining their side (they were more powerful, it would be like joining Irenicus and a lvl 25 Sarevok in SoA's Unseeing Eye Quest). thing is, time after time they used brain and brawn to go after the PCs, who always felt haunted and hunted, never secure, and had to use all their wits and resources every time a confrontation came up. Eventually brains won. Something like that I would much like to see in SoA; a powerful party hunting the PCs for money/Irenicus/someone else- but retreating if battles are too much against them, and with the ability to change sides and join either as PCs or NPCs. I could provide their stats, background, motivations, everything except modding, so I will have to keep dreaming.

Now your turn, any NPCs you want in? Any detailed ones you would mod if you could?

A good or neutral wild mage with an interesting history, and lots of interactions. Nobody seems to have modded one.

4. Anyone who is not a nutter of some sort. Of course there is a propensity to portray the odd man out amongst modders, and it is likely that many mercenaries, explorers, adventurers was/would be the odd man out, but still... some ordinary people are extraordinary just by the fact that they long for adventure, but do not have the skeletons in the closet. Of course that would take away the NPC-related quest for that character, but there are none for Minsc either and I almost always have him in the party...

But would you genuinely like to have one in your party? I'd find that very boring.

Kelsey is fairly ordinary and fairly boring, yet I like to have him. Perhaps I should add that I always tell Imo to wait for me in CC, for she is not very competent and I wish to protect my sis from the dangers I have to endure, so I do not get his lovetalk with her. he is thus a good example of what I could wish for more off. It is one thing to have one or two people with some sort of bagage of the "heavier" sort (if it was RL, one of mine would be ... me), but 4-5 of them...

To counter their normality you could add a "trickster" characteristic, like Mat of WoT books, or a wry sense of humour or something, Jan Jansen is pretty normal as well, but his weird banters makes him worthwhile- except I rarely use him either.

Another NPC I would like to see is, now that we are speaking WoT, is an Elayne Thrakand type, imperious noble magician of great beauty and ability- perhaps romancable. Egwene and Nyaneve are too (insert the word you- Fable- will not tolerate here but which means she-dog) and bossy, and Aviendha, who I also quite like, would just drown in the multitude of shield-maiden mods already around.

Wild Mage? Yes that would be interesting as well... I never tried my hand at that.

Edar Macilrille wrote:Wild Mage? Yes that would be interesting as well... I never tried my hand at that.

I'd rather have one as a party NPC, simply because I'd like to see some modder's take on the kind of personality that would seek to become a wild mage. It's not a matter of trying for a stereotype, either. I can envision at least half a dozen different scenarios resulting in as many unique individuals. You'd probably find them far too strange, but that's the way I like 'em.

Evil Romanceable Female Female fighter of some sort, but smart and cleaver (not redeamable). Bonnie and Clyde type of relationship straight forward adrenalin power seeking junkies from the beginning both NPC and PC getting what they want out of the relationship and willing to go down in a blaze of glory. Could be alot of fun roll playing that.

I like the wild mage idea as well, especially since I'm too lazy to play one as a PC. :laugh:

A Cavalier based on Futurama's Zap Brannigan (the soundset is already out there and it works great for my current Cavalier), with a long-suffering Kif-esque squire (maybe a monk, there aren't many monks out there AFAIK).

Saerileth renamed to 'Mary Sue'.

A pop-culture reference laden mod featuring a female bard based on Rhianna, with a former-lover-turned-nemesis monk Chris Brown. Mini-quests could include her short-lived return to said nemesis (comes back to the party at 'Badly Injured'), and trying to retrieve some compromising nude paintings of her before they reach the news criers. Ideally Chris Brown would be teamed up with an evil skin dancer who had stole the identity of the Pop King and was stealing children's souls. From rescuing a brainwashed Katie Holmes from an evil mind-controlling cult, to trying to find Britney the spear-kensai's missing underwear, to a quartet of troubadours with bowl haircuts fleeing the wrath of an angry God ("Great John, just great - why did you have to go and say we were bigger than Talos?"), the potential is just endless.

A halfling berserker using 2-handed swords.

A elf archer.

A PC-can-have-Drizzt's-party-join-him mod.

A dwarf with the humor of Lilarcor and Gimli (LOTR)

Maybe a strong monk?

Peter Jackson is one of the few people in the world I would like to duel with sharp swords. Cut him open and watch him trying to keep his intestines in (i am in fact quite handy with a sword).

Yes, sorry, I feel quite strongly about the LoTR BOOKs and this should not turn into a discussion of them or flamewar, but I believe he has spoiled them totally.

Anyway, I like the Monk idea as well, a credible Barbarian (please no Wulfgar/Conan-type), a warrior-hunter from beyond civilisation who is awed by the big cities and at the same time dislike it. Quiet, grim type, not boisterous like Minsc. Edited to add, would be nice as well- being upset makes me forget typing things apparently ;-)

I had a look at the simple modding guide over at Pocketplane, it does not look too difficult (probably that changes as you try it), but changing someone from haunting enemy to friend and joinable... I am not even certain it is doable.

And for some reason my game crashes when I try to open a multiplayer. I suspect it has something to do with Vista *spits* but has tried fiddling around to make it work- no such luck.

Guess it is time to open the old XP PC ;-)

fable wrote:I'd rather have one as a party NPC, simply because I'd like to see some modder's take on the kind of personality that would seek to become a wild mage. It's not a matter of trying for a stereotype, either. I can envision at least half a dozen different scenarios resulting in as many unique individuals. You'd probably find them far too strange, but that's the way I like 'em.

there is a xan mod where you could add him as enchanter, ftr/mage or wildmage.

koz-ivan wrote:there is a xan mod where you could add him as enchanter, ftr/mage or wildmage.

I know, but it doesn't fit the criteria I listed above for someone who has a believable personality and background that would leave them to become a wild mage. It's just simply a profession swap-out.

I have Xan as a wild-mage, I figured it'd be even more depressing for him to have his spells suddenly turn into a bunch of squirrels.

Ode to a Grasshopper wrote:I have Xan as a wild-mage, I figured it'd be even more depressing for him to have his spells suddenly turn into a bunch of squirrels.

And then he sais: "that is so horrible!" on his very depressing tone?!!

There is a good example of one wild mage type in the online comic, Dungeon Crawl, which unfortunately seems to be moribund at this point. There's been a short, interesting mod for BG2 created of it, as well.

Ode to a Grasshopper wrote: Saerileth renamed to 'Mary Sue'.

(resists a terrible urge to go into tsujatha-rant mode triggered by this feeble opportunity)

Yes. I second that.

Ode to a Grasshopper wrote: A elf archer.

(does not resist the urge to mention Kivan)

Kivan is an elven archer.

As to the evil romance, it's been discussed a lot around the modding communities, and the funny thing is how different people mean different things by this. There's a Sarevok romance mod for tob, which is IMO pretty bad right from the starting point, what with your former nemesis and dad's murderer and all, and still some gamers refer to one of its options as "goody-goody", simply because the PC declares in it she doesn't wish to ascend and Sarevok isn't cruel to her.

Privately i've been wrestling with this horrible temptation to write an assassin NPC, somewhat similar to Dekaras from Edwin's Expansion. Competent, professional, polite cold-blooded killer. Could be fun.

QuenGalad wrote:Privately i've been wrestling with this horrible temptation to write an assassin NPC, somewhat similar to Dekaras from Edwin's Expansion. Competent, professional, polite cold-blooded killer. Could be fun.

I agree with you, that sounds really great. I don't believe anything like it has been done before.

fable wrote:A good or neutral wild mage with an interesting history, and lots of interactions. Nobody seems to have modded one.

You may want to check out/keep an eye on: Worgas the NPC and his prettie Eyeball - Spellhold Studios

It's not complete yet, but I think flysoup's put up a beta on the last page of that thread.

It's a fun idea, especially with that companion he has, but of course fly's english is not the greatest, and he won't mind me saying this (I hope) because I'm helping him out with regards to it in his fan comic anyway. If anything though, I think the odd and quirky english will make him even more wild and maniacal - and that can't be bad.

I'll let you check it out for yourself, I haven't tried it myself either actually, and only found out about it a few weeks ago.

What do you think about a fallen paladin mod? A fallen paladin with a huge bloodthurst?

I do think that that is a class that is missing, an pure evil class, something like the palladin but then evil.

Well, as we all know, Baldur's Gate is a great game but doesn't really offer much space for being evil, and Valen uses it all up.

I do think a fallen paladin would be interesting, but somehow don't see him nurturing his bloodthirst via a killing spree. If he's become a paladin, which isn't that easy, he must have had some pretty strong justice-oriented convictions and faith. A fallen paladin is more likely to be a bitter, disillusioned man that lost that faith, i think. Unless you mean an anti-paladin... (sorry for picking on terminology, i'm a linguist ) Something like a dedicated, almost-fanatical fighter for the cause of evil? Well, that's an interesting character that would be a real challenge to write, but i see no way of fitting him in the game. If a paladin automatically fights any evil, this guy would fight all that's good, and you would miss those key NPC's

QuenGalad wrote:Well, as we all know, Baldur's Gate is a great game but doesn't really offer much space for being evil, and Valen uses it all up.

I do think a fallen paladin would be interesting, but somehow don't see him nurturing his bloodthirst via a killing spree. If he's become a paladin, which isn't that easy, he must have had some pretty strong justice-oriented convictions and faith. A fallen paladin is more likely to be a bitter, disillusioned man that lost that faith, i think. Unless you mean an anti-paladin... (sorry for picking on terminology, i'm a linguist ) Something like a dedicated, almost-fanatical fighter for the cause of evil? Well, that's an interesting character that would be a real challenge to write, but i see no way of fitting him in the game. If a paladin automatically fights any evil, this guy would fight all that's good, and you would miss those key NPC's

It's more that I think the game needs a sort of character that is pure evil and can only be played in an chaotic evil alignment. A sort of counterpart for the paladin, it could be a thief, that would make sense.

BTW Jouke, I just noticed your endquote. Tokien never had Gimli say that.

I am sorry, but as a historian, I have this thing about accuracy.