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Hello, first time posting in this section, but, sadly I guess the post starts with a bit of negativity about the game, but read tell the end and I am sure you will find this is not meant to be a troll post.

Now I played NWN 1 for a few years starting shortly after it came out and found that I greatly like it, it had a few problems but was a very good game in my honest option, so when I heard that NWN 2 was coming I was of course pleased. Since then my option has changed however, my favored part of NWN 1 was the online play, which seems to still be riddle with bugs and problems on top of not being hardware friendly for many servers. Seeing this I decided that the OC the game came with should at least make it a worthy game tell they fixed some issues, then I found it had more bugs than the online servers did, and to be honest, the OC, SoU, and HoU in NWN 1... I honestly didn't care for much in NWN2's. So I shelfted it for a bit and thought no more of it tell I recently got my hands on MotB through a twist of fate, and decided to give it another go.

Now playing it again I still don't care much for ether OC or MotB story, the NPCs in both seem to be better at making me want to kill them, many of the bugs are gone though. AI over all seems a bit dodgy, they rarely do what I want them to, even with there behavior settings set, and many times I feel like I am having to babysit characters while I manual control them, before I hastily rush off to the next one that is about to get itself killed in a act of pure stupidity. (Beyond the NPCs which i don't like mechanics or most of there personalities). The camera seems to be a problem adding to the mechanics but dealing with it after a while got me use to it. And the last of my complains I will list is that as a spell caster, I find that spell casting has gotten to be extremely un-needed and only slightly useful, those few times being when I need to deal large amounts of damage in a short time. I am use to being the type of caster that is charming enemies body guards with one hand, and turning invisible with the other (or other such trickery) and in NWN2 this seems not only to be much more difficult, but between all the bugs/gliches, and numerous spell-changes, a complete waist of effort when I can just send Khelgar in and he will have the whole room down before I get off my first spell. This is made even more painful in MOTB where you have to deal with the spirit bar that seems to hate anyone that has to rest, or wants to be anything other than Lawful good, or chaotic evil (though this seems to be in both campaigns).



After listing off all this (and I apologies for getting long winded) I begin to think that maybe I am approaching this game from the wrong angle. As hard as I try i can't seem to make it set in the same type of game as Baldur's Gate/Icewind Dale/Planescape/ or even NWN 1 as this seems to be a game that is more focused on combat and ripping things apart, and simply adding stuff in that doesn't follow the 3.5 D&D rule at all whenever it feels like it. So now I guess I am asking is how should I approach a game like this to have the most fun, and to stop looking at it and saying "I should be able to do this...". Is it more of a pure hack n' Slash like Diablo or what? Again sorry for the long post of complaints.

Merlin101 wrote:..this seems to be a game that is more focused on combat and ripping things apart, and simply adding stuff in that doesn't follow the 3.5 D&D rule at all whenever it feels like it. So now I guess I am asking is how should I approach a game like this to have the most fun, and to stop looking at it and saying "I should be able to do this...". Is it more of a pure hack n' Slash like Diablo or what? Again sorry for the long post of complaints.

The OC and MOTB is only marginally more focused than NWN 1 and expansions for violence.

Face it, the D&D rules on experience point build-up are mostly based on killing things. Quest points are usually based on killing things as well. Now Rogue specific skill points are missing in action here (..picking locks, traps, etc.).

Further, D&D goes even farther with *random* encounters of violence that are largely missing in both NWN1 & 2. (..though 2 has it via SoZ.)

So the proverbial Hack n' Slash has been part of D&D from it's inception, and Diablo-type games are pretty much stripped-down copy cats.

Now plot-based *items* are also a part of D&D, but plot-based *abilities*.. um, not that I remember. It kind'a makes MOTB ridiculous, though often interesting for a bit. The equipment-placed "shards" in the OC were a stretch, but not totally an absurd one for a long campaign. Then there is the whole "death" and rest/regeneration system which is FUBAR'ed, and the nearly unlimited sources of equipment providing all cures and massive defenses to even the weakest characters. (..and finally there is the Rogue thing.)


So, how to get the most from it?

First accept that it's a hack n' slash and if that's boring, hack n' slash a bit differently. EX. Try a Sorcerer or Wizard class.

Try higher difficulty settings.

Try using fewer companions. Talk with them more often. Switch them out more often for different dungeons (again, using fewer companions - at most 2 plus yourself unless more are required). Occasionally "solo" some dungeons/quests. Companions you do select should be selected on the basis of "plot" or "location", rather than killing prowess.

Don't "rest" in dungeons (unless you have cleared them completely out). If you need to rest go back outside to do so.

Don't rest to heal your character or companions. Limit yourself to a certain small quantity of healing kits or potions per dungeon. Don't use restoration potions and the like, instead only use the spells that you have OR go back to a temple.

Dramatically limit your equipment. Use only mundane armor, and only minor weapons for most of the game. DO NOT USE ATTRIBUTE MODIFIER EQUIPMENT (unless it's an artifact like the belt of the Ironfist). If you want to improve your attributes use spells, special abilities, or attribute modifier potions. In fact EXCEPT for the healing variety in general - make use of potions. Do not use *any* equipment that confers immunity to *anything*.

Take your time with each campaign, don't try to do everything, and don't try to accrue as many experience points as possible.

Try different races and different class combinations, NEVER play the same sort of character consecutively.

When you build a character, build it with the above restrictions in mind - in other words look to abilities/spells rather than equipment as a solution. Additionally build the character based on a logical "role" with background for those decisions rather than buffing for power-gamer status. This doesn't mean it can't be built to power-gamer levels, rather that the focus should be appropriate for the role.

The OC and MOTB is only marginally more focused than NWN 1 and expansions for violence.

Face it, the D&D rules on experience point build-up are mostly based on killing things. Quest points are usually based on killing things as well. Now Rogue specific skill points are missing in action here (..picking locks, traps, etc.).

Further, D&D goes even farther with *random* encounters of violence that are largely missing in both NWN1 & 2. (..though 2 has it via SoZ.)

So the proverbial Hack n' Slash has been part of D&D from it's inception, and Diablo-type games are pretty much stripped-down copy cats.

Now plot-based *items* are also a part of D&D, but plot-based *abilities*.. um, not that I remember. It kind'a makes MOTB ridiculous, though often interesting for a bit. The equipment-placed "shards" in the OC were a stretch, but not totally an absurd one for a long campaign. Then there is the whole "death" and rest/regeneration system which is FUBAR'ed, and the nearly unlimited sources of equipment providing all cures and massive defenses to even the weakest characters. (..and finally there is the Rogue thing.)

I wouldn't say that D&D is all about hack n' Slash, it has its share but, that is a conversation for another time. Now I don't have trouble with the special abilities or anything, though the spirit bar does seem to be of rather bad design when one has to factor in the trouble spellcasters have with not being allowed re-prepare there spells for extensive times for fear of running it too low, but, I think you miss understood when I said hack n' slash.

What I mean by hack n' Slash is that usually this is a character who goes out to face tons of generic opponents that mostly die to simply hitting them enough, and while many games have this, hack n' slash games usually go no farther than this, with the most complicated being a boss or two takes a bit more than average hitting to actually kill (in the oc I can count 3, Lorne/Shadow Reaver/King of Shadows I haven't made it through MotB yet to know about it). What really tends to differ these games from what I consider other type games is the dept or since of epic of the game.

Again I will talk about the NPCs because i already have, in most such games NPCs are usually seen by the end of the game nearly as much as the main character, they have personality, and tend to act more than one way all the time. Even in NWN 1 your henchy had a mind of there own beyond A) Qara: hating everything because she views it as holding her back, while she thinks she is the most powerful thing in the world (and she treats every situation like this be it a rat/guard/or mystra herself) B) well any evil character that is straight up 100% retarded evil to the point where it isn't so much even evil anymore it is just them being a pain to everyone around them (and I actually though bishop was one of the more characters). The OC at least doesn't seem to have much dept in any category, it is more; there be enemy, here is sword, go kill enemy, and then throws a canvas of a story over it and call it a story driven game.

Now in MotB I seem to be finding a bit more of the debt, not a ton but quite a bit more, if it wasn't for me being a sorcerer and the spirit bar constantly looming its numbers at me I think i would find it quite immersible as its story, at least in the short ways I have gotten in it, seems to be more than, there is necromancers, go kill necromancers, with a sudden shift to the head necromancer being a rather powerful sentient golem.

However after seeing what you did write it does seem that at least the campaigns tell now are more of a hack n' slash, much like the baldur's gate games for the consoles. I thank you for your view and any other that feels anything needs added.

Merlin101 wrote:
..I think you miss understood when I said hack n' slash.

What I mean by hack n' Slash is that usually this is a character who goes out to face tons of generic opponents that mostly die to simply hitting them enough, and while many games have this, hack n' slash games usually go no farther than this, with the most complicated being a boss or two takes a bit more than average hitting to actually kill (in the oc I can count 3, Lorne/Shadow Reaver/King of Shadows I haven't made it through MotB yet to know about it). What really tends to differ these games from what I consider other type games is the dept or since of epic of the game.

..in NWN 1 your henchy had a mind of there own..

..The OC at least doesn't seem to have much dept in any category, it is more; there be enemy, here is sword, go kill enemy, and then throws a canvas of a story over it and call it a story driven game.

However after seeing what you did write it does seem that at least the campaigns tell now are more of a hack n' slash, much like the baldur's gate games for the consoles. I thank you for your view and any other that feels anything needs added.

I don't think the Hack'n Slash element is really that different than most other rpg games. What is different is the overall difficulty. For the most part the OC is just to easy (and the other NWN2 modules as well for the most part). The reason they put in the absurd MOTB spirit bar is precisely to make it *more* difficult for magic users. It "re-balances" the game, but in an awkward manner.

Name rpgs that aren't: " there be enemy, here is sword, go kill enemy, and then throws a canvas of a story over it and call it a story driven game." Of course add-in the multiple ridiculous side-quests as well - which are usually composed of the same "there be enemy, here is sword, go kill enemy".


I also don't think that NWN1 had more personality to companions, if anything I think it was worse in that respect. Honestly, I can't remember a single companion from *any* of the NWN1 modules. (EDIT: I now vaguely remember Aribeth, and Deekin I now remember as being the only decent *character*, and specifically more interesting than Grobnar.) The OC characters in NWN2 were characterized, BUT for the most part memorable and in some cases could go through personality changes (Khelgar, Neeshka, Amon Jerro). MOTB isn't bad in this respect either. ALL of NWN's however sorely lacked personalities beyond companions and a few principal characters. In this respect Dragon Age is *vastly* superior. (..but even Dragon age lacks the multi-party character interaction that BG2 had, though overall the characters are much better in Dragon Age.)

Honestly, I don't see that big a difference between NWN1 and NWN2 beyond game balancing for difficulty (..and even then the difference is only minor). As for characters and plot with respect to OC's I'll take NWN2 over NWN1 any day. (..on the other hand I did like the story-lines for the expansions (Shadows and Hordes) in NWN1, BETTER than any of the NWN2 modules.)