GameBanshee Forums

Typically I couldn't care less about posturing politicos attacking games and nerdy fanboys screaming unneeded defenses, but this takes the cake:

In an opinion issued on Monday , a three-judge panel of the United States Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit rejected the claims in a lawsuit challenging a ban on the game Dungeons & Dragons by the Waupun Correctional Institution in Wisconsin.

The suit was brought by a prisoner, Kevin T. Singer, who argued that his First Amendment and 14th Amendment rights were violated by the prison’s decision to ban the game and confiscate his books and other materials, including a 96-page handwritten manuscript he had created for the game...

Prison officials said they had banned the game at the recommendation of the prison’s specialist on gangs, who said it could lead to gang behavior and fantasies about escape...

Oh, right, I forgot to discipline Jaheira for leading gangland killings last month. And all those prisoners standing around casting gate spells--you have to understand where the court is coming from.

Or as Matthew Yglesias put it,

The prison is being ridiculous, but the court is staying in line with my understanding of precedent, which basically gives prison authorities wide latitude to be petty, cruel, and absurd.

Yes, that says it all. But you can read the entire original piece right here.

Because only playing D&D leads to fantasies of escape. Normal, everyday life in a correction institution does not encourage them in the slightest. I'm sure none of the inmates even considered thinking about getting out before they got contaminated with D&D.

Seriously, being a tabletop player I've been on a couple of gaming sessions where the player's in-game behaviour was slightly scary, but it wasn't the game leading to it, it was them leading the game that way. To cite Tolkien, "the only evil here is the one you've brought with you".

Here in Poland the accused and the prisoners have been repeatedly shown to have more rights than the victims, so I'm not hugely in favour of having mercy on the poor misguided souls, but is denying them the right to a cooperative, imagination-stimulating passtime going to make them understand the error of their ways? Because it seems to me this is yet another reason to think that "the world is just picking on me."

My knowledge of US geography is pretty minimal. I know where the Great Lakes are to found on a map, and I know where Mexico is - I think....

... but I have heard of 'The Bible Belt', so I wondered if by any chance Wisconsin is situated in it? Because that's the only way such a ban makes any sense. Bible fanatics think D&D is a product of the devil.

Fljotsdale wrote:... but I have heard of 'The Bible Belt', so I wondered if by any chance Wisconsin is situated in it? Because that's the only way such a ban makes any sense. Bible fanatics think D&D is a product of the devil.

The Bible Belt roughly comprises the Old Confederacy, minus Florida (which was almost terra incognita at the time), along with Ohio, Indiana, and Illinois thrown in for good measure. So it's the old time south, and a few states in the midwest, that were swept by the Baptist revivalist movement in the 1830s--imported, by the way, from the UK at the time. Wisconsin is considerably to the north of that, but then, you are stereotyping, surely? One doesn't have to be a bible-thumper to deny inmates access to D&D. I've run across quite a few secular humanist libertarians who believe that if the elderly can't afford health care, they should be put out on the streets. Willful stupidity knows no boundaries.

fable wrote: The Bible Belt roughly comprises the Old Confederacy, minus Florida (which was almost terra incognita at the time), along with Ohio, Indiana, and Illinois thrown in for good measure. So it's the old time south, and a few states in the midwest, that were swept by the Baptist revivalist movement in the 1830s--imported, by the way, from the UK at the time. Wisconsin is considerably to the north of that, but then, you are stereotyping, surely?

Possibly. However I know from personal experience that religious fanatics view D&D as a work of Satan. I used to be religious, and that viewpoint was forcefully expounded. Even as a believer, I found it more than a bit over the top...

fable wrote:One doesn't have to be a bible-thumper to deny inmates access to D&D. I've run across quite a few secular humanist libertarians who believe that if the elderly can't afford health care, they should be put out on the streets. Willful stupidity knows no boundaries.

Really? :speech: I thought Humanists had both more humanity (or how can they be HUMANists?) and more common sense! Ye gods. The world is mad. But I guess I knew that anyway.

The essence of the farce is this:

Why are people in a lawsuit over this? With lawyers charging what they do, with all the scarcity of resources, with only xyz number of minutes on this planet before you die, why in the world is anyone spending any time on this???

For eff's sake, either let them play the stupid game or simply deny any legal resource to the prisoner's challenge. Don't the courts have more important things to do like adjudicate allegations of serious crime or tort?

I tell ya, I miss the days where you just lined up to see the monarch. He/she would listen for 5 minutes and make a ruling. If you gave him or her lip, you got your head chopped off. Dispute settled, now everyone get back to work and your families.

RPGguy wrote:

I tell ya, I miss the days where you just lined up to see the monarch. He/she would listen for 5 minutes and make a ruling. If you gave him or her lip, you got your head chopped off. Dispute settled, now everyone get back to work and your families.

Gosh! I didn't know you were THAT old! :speech::laugh::mischief:

No no! They will engage the guards in a roleplaying campaign where the goal is to let the inmates escape. Or they will befriend them and lure them into a trap with a promise of new, exciting adventures.

Prison officials said they had banned the game at the recommendation of the prison’s specialist on gangs, who said it could lead to gang behavior and fantasies about escape...

... I'm truly interested what this specialist has to say about it. What would this so-called specialist's scientific basis in coming up with such a recommendation?

How exactly does D&D lead to gang behavior (and what particular gang behavior would that be) and fantasies about escape?

As for these fantasies about escape, I don't think you need to be a D&D fanatic to fantasize and wish that you were on the other side of the prison walls.

Fljotsdale wrote:Possibly. However I know from personal experience that religious fanatics view D&D as a work of Satan. I used to be religious, and that viewpoint was forcefully expounded. Even as a believer, I found it more than a bit over the top...

I'm Catholic and I started playing the game back in 1982 when I was still in 6th grade. At 39, very much older and I dare say much wiser (? ), I still fail to see how D&D would make me feel unworthy in the eyes of my God.

QuenGalad wrote:No no! They will engage the guards in a roleplaying campaign where the goal is to let the inmates escape. Or they will befriend them and lure them into a trap with a promise of new, exciting adventures.

To be fair, many inmates wouldn't be morally opposed to fudging the rolls on a female rogue to get an intensely high charisma score. Then, it would be a mere matter of a couple of diplomacy and bluff checks. Prisoners would be escaping left and right, madness.

I fully support the prison's decision.