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Landsmeet spoilers

Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:21 pm
by GoldDragon
MAJOR SPOILERS, highlight to read
Spoiler
A vote count of 7-1 against Loghain is possible, and an automatic win for you (Jump to duel). Here's how (And the gamebanshee walkthru only has part of this)
First, either do NOT play City Elf Origin, or spare Vaughan
After Finishing Lothering, do any of the Following Quests:

Broken Circle, started in Lake Calenhad Docks and the Circle Tower
Paragon of her Kind, in Orzammar
Nature of the Beast, in the Brecillian Forest
Urn of Sacred Ashes, in Denerim, Brother Genitivi's house*

*Details are listed in the Walkthru here under humans, for THIS quest, going to Redcliffe village is unnecessary

Finishing any one of these quests will trigger Zevran's appearance. Deal with this as you see fit (Kill Zevran, recruit, whatever. he doesn't really matter)

One Zevran is dealt with, return to Denerim, talk with Master Ignacio (I might have mis-spelled his name, but he's the guy near the caged bear). Ask to help him. He refuses, but as you try to leave Denerim, he sends a messenger.

These are the Trial of the Crows quest (If alive, and present in your party, Zevran will recognize him as a Crow). Agree to do these quests. The fourth one, rescue the kidnapped boy, is the kicker here. His father's a Bann/Arl (Ignacio says "his very important father"). Doing these gains you a vote (always) in the landsmeet. Specifically, he's the one that blatantly says that the Wardens helped him in a personal matter :laugh:

Do the remainder of the Warden Treaties and Redcliffe quests. Also, do Alistair's Personal Quest, and use the two following Responses during conversations with him:
"Everyone is out for themselves." Happens just outside Goldanna's House.
"About time, I say" Happens during a conversation in Camp. The two will Harden Alistair, making him more willing to take the throne. Only do this if you don't want Anora on the Throne.

While in the Dungeon of the Arl of Denerim's estate, start the Tortured Noble and lost Templar quests. Ask Vaughan for his vote in Landsmeet, in exchange for letting him out. Ask the bann of Dragon's Peak later for his vote, and give the ring and say pray for Irminric to Alfstanna, both in the Gnawed Noble Tavern.

Deal with the problems in the Alienage as you see fit, but I have never consistently been able to use anything from this segment, despite usually having a 30 in Cunning and level 4 coercion (effectively a 70 point persuade)

When talking to Anora (anytime BEFORE telling Eamon about the Alienage), say that you will support her, even if you are going to lie, and put Alistair (and possibly yourself, if Human Noble Female) on the throne.

In Landsmeet itself, use these responses:
The Blight is the threat here, not Orlais!
(Howe's torturing of innocents. I forget the actual wording)
(Sending of Jowan to poison the Arl of Redcliffe, again, I forget the actual wording)

The voting should be 7 for the Warden, one for Loghain, causing him to say "How DARE you JUDGE ME!!!"

Theoretically, you can use the Elven Slavery as well, but as most nobles view elves as near slaves anyways, I couldn't get it to work but once the 4 times I tried. Don't bother. I've used the above more than 6 times consistently, so it's a sure-fire win.
Sit back and enjoy.

Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:39 am
by DesR85
GoldDragon wrote:
Spoiler
In Landsmeet itself, use these responses:
The Blight is the threat here, not Orlais!
(Howe's torturing of innocents. I forget the actual wording)
(Sending of Jowan to poison the Arl of Redcliffe, again, I forget the actual wording)

The voting should be 7 for the Warden, one for Loghain, causing him to say "How DARE you JUDGE ME!!!"

Theoretically, you can use the Elven Slavery as well, but as most nobles view elves as near slaves anyways, I couldn't get it to work but once the 4 times I tried. Don't bother. I've used the above more than 6 times consistently, so it's a sure-fire win.
Spoilers, please highlight:
Spoiler
About the Elven slavery issue, maybe the nobles thought you're some troublemaker spreading lies about slavery under their noses if you choose the City Elf origin? :confused:

I played as a Human Noble and the arl of Dragon's Peak (the guy whose son was tortured in Arl Howe's prison) confronted Loghain about it when I brought up that option. Works only in the second phase, though, as I recall using it in the third phase on my first attempt, he'll just shrug it off and use his patriotic rubbish to justify it. I lost as a result of that and after following a walkthrough, I managed to win using your method, except the second phase where I brought up the slavery issue.

Anyway, I let Vaughan rot in prison but was able to win in the Landsmeet nonetheless. 5-1.

Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:39 am
by Scottg
I've always gotten 7 out of 8 (..there isn't anything you can do about the last vote). (..or is it 5 out of 6, or 6 out of 7?) I guess it's just a matter of being thorough or not, (not a racial/origin issue), and if you really care about it. Also, you don't need to "harden" Alaster to agree to a marriage with Anora (..though you do need to have his rating above 90 with full coercion). Of course the ending is slightly different if he is "hardened".

Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 4:10 pm
by swcarter
You don't need Zevran to do the Trial of Crows quest.

I've done the Trials of Crows quest without getting support from the anonymous noble, and I've gotten support from the anonymous noble without completing the Trial of Crows. If there's really any link between the two, I never saw it in my playthroughs. (Besides, you don't actually rescue the son. You're just sent on a wild goose chase.)

I also never saw any difference for picking two out of slavery, poisoning, and torture. You just want to avoid any accusations that you can't really prove.

SWC

Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:46 pm
by GoldDragon
Zevran can be killed, recruited, let go, whatever you wish.

BUT, to trigger the Trial of Crows quests, he MUST have been triggered, and his random encounter dealt with, first.

Unecessary, yes, but needed for the trigger. Otherwise, Master Ignacio will simply say no, maybe another day, and not send the messenger.

IRT the Elven Slavery issue, I tried it as Human Noble (Not City Elf), but the point about timing may be correct. I might try it later (Elf mage has yet to do Nature of the Beast).

Alistair's Hardening kicks in only when NOT playing as Human Noble Female (So as to allow for becoming his queen), and is only necessary if you don't want to do the Arbitration thing (I rather imagine that Anora gets a shock when he agrees). Also, it avoids the 13+ point disposition hit that you take for putting him on the throne un-hardened.