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Which would you choose? Evil party with my main, Viconia, Edwin, Korgan and Jaheira.

Id take Haer'Dalis. One would say that you need a thief, but this isn't true, just tank the traps and bash the doors.

While Jan has great banter and is undoubtedly the strongest NPC in the game, I would suggest Haer' Dalis as well, since he can fit any situation and be useful from the moment you get him.

I must say, I'm stomped either way. Haer'Dalis has many advantages, all though recruiting him can be somewhat of a pain as a lowleveler. I'd like for him to get as much of a share of the xp as the others, so Jan gets a serious nod when it comes to recruitability (is that even a word?). At the same time, a couple of the items I have in mind for the two later on seems to benefit Jan more, like the Amulet of the Master Harper. He'll also get a lot more mojo from his spellcasting than Haer'Dalis.

Besides, when I do try using Haer'Dalis as a melee combatant, he tends to get a serious stomping, even with buffs and whatnots.

Darth Malignus wrote:Besides, when I do try using Haer'Dalis as a melee combatant, he tends to get a serious stomping, even with buffs and whatnots.

The Blade is all about buffing + defensive spinning with Freedom of Movement. If you use him unbuffed, you're right, he's a frail little snatch that goes down quick. Buffed, he's a juggernaught with the best AC and attacks per round.

The Defensive Spin with Freedom of Movement is completely optional. While I do suggest it to players, I personally rarely use it simply because there are enough protections at your disposal (that and I'm too lazy to go through the process of spell stacking).

During my normal games, most of my regular battles are fought largely unbuffed. Two long term buffs (Stoneskin and Spirit Armor) and the rest are used when required.

Jan annoys me, and blades are awesome, but for your party Jan just seems a better fit. You are thiefless.

Edit: Unless your main is a thief you don't say what you are playing.

Like Stworca pointed out, you can tank the traps. You can use Knock for closed doors and containers and of course you can shoplift with the Blade's high pickpocket score.

Take Jan. He's more powerful and offers more options. You'll get XP from locks and traps, you can backstab for quintuple damage and use all other thieving skills and can gain access to level 9 and 10 mage spells during ToB.
The only noteworthy benefit Haer'Dalis offers is the improved bard song, his physical attack power is lousy compared to Korgan and Jaheira.

Crenshinibon wrote:Like Stworca pointed out, you can tank the traps. You can use Knock for closed doors and containers and of course you can shoplift with the Blade's high pickpocket score.

You can, but would you want to? Even for a solo game it annoys me to not be able to disarm traps. With a full party it would be even worse.

Why not take both and ditch Jaheira?

I actually quite like Jaheira as a character, but she really doesn't fit all that well into an evil party.
You have Viccy for healing, so you'll manage that way.

dragon wench wrote:Why not take both and ditch Jaheira?

Both I and Edar love you for that

dragon wench wrote:Why not take both and ditch Jaheira?

I actually quite like Jaheira as a character, but she really doesn't fit all that well into an evil party.
You have Viccy for healing, so you'll manage that way.

I second this notion.

Crenshinibon wrote:While Jan has great banter and is undoubtedly the strongest NPC in the game, I would suggest Haer' Dalis as well, since he can fit any situation and be useful from the moment you get him.

Care to explain how exactly Jan is the strongest? I'm not doubting your statement or anything, just a bit curious, as I've not thought very highly of him, despite I often take him along. Perhaps I've missed something vital here.

Backstabbing as an iron golem and being illusionist/thief kinda sums it up.

Versatility and the fact he's a multiclass.
Both get Use Any Item, but Jan gets access to all thief skills (those traps etc add up over time), including backstab, the possibility for powerful magic use (aside from Necromancy, which is only really useful for Horrid Wilting and Skeleton Warrior summons), spike traps (think HD gets these too but they're cheesy death), and his bruiser mates can stun clumps of enemies.
Weapons-wise, deck him out with the Light Crossbow of Speed and the Kuo-Toa bolts, Improve Haste him and he's effectively firing 4 1d12 attacks per round with the possibility of stun. For backstabbing, the Staff of the Ram's +12 damage gets multiplied, giving you up to +60 extra damage. Give him the Staff of the Magi and the Cloak of Non-Detection and he can scout and de-trap entire dungeons without being detected, before the rest of your party has to go past the first room.
The biggie, though, is mixing spells and thief abilities. If you have him cast Mislead he gets every hit as a backstab while the spell's in effect, making it 2 backstabs per round at up to 5x damage with Improved Haste - add in the Iron Golem (IIRC) form and he can do ridiculous damage to anything not immune to backstabbing.

Haer'Dalis can be great in combat if you give him Kundane in the offhand, buff him up right (including Improved Haste), and get Offensive Spin going, but he requires a lot of micromanagment and isn't much good for much else that Jan can't do better - even when he gets the Improved Bard Song he can't fight while using it. The main problem is non-fighter classes have a hardcoded-limit of one (natural) attack per round and bards can't wear higher than chainmail armor or cast spells in normal armor, which really limits his usefulness as a hard-hitting front-line warrior. To really make use of him without heaps of buffing for every encounter you need to give him elven chain, and while there's a set in his quest there's not much of it throughout SoA, and by the time you get to ToB AC stops mattering so much. In combat Jan is more of a ranged support type, so having a good AC doesn't matter so much (in SoA), and he doesn't need micromanagement.

It's a bit like comparing Cernd or Jaheira - Cernd is the better spellcaster and does alright in combat with the Improved Werewolf form, but ultimately Jaheira's the stronger NPC.

Strongest NPC is pushing it a bit power-wise IMO, but he's definitely one of the more useful NPCs around if you take advantage of him.

Daynov pointed you in the right direction. Jan is able to do damage higher than any other character by following the mentioned strategy. Just as well, if you transform him into a Greater Wolfwere and buff him up with all sorts of protective and enhancing spells (such as Tensor's Tranformation and Improved Haste) he will attack much faster than usual, at a good THAC0, all the while having the benefits of Stoneskin, Mirror Image and the form's amazing regeneration at about sixteen hitpoints a second, which is enough to regenerate most damage as soon as you take it.

To Ode's post, I'd like to add that Haer' Dalis CAN use his Mislead image to sing (and stack) the Improved Bard Song while he does something else.

This would be a nice time to note that, at least until spell levels cap for the *multi-classed* Jan (that'd be what, 7.5mil XP, aka Jan's last gained illusionist level), Haer Dalis casts at WAY higher caster levels... his Tenser's tops out @ 2.2 mil XP -AND- his rogue thac0, same max achievable as Jan, tops out just one level later at 2.4 mil XP.

So, Jan's top tensered thac0 arrives over 5 MILLION XP later, and is still short the +2 to hit / +1 attack / ***max damage on every hit*** of offensive spin, and is still unable to dual-wield for 4(5 for spinning HD) attacks per round w/out the brutal penalties of one * in dual-wield (HD gets 3*** in dual wield), and is lacking HD's additional bonuses of the extra proficiencies and second stars he's not supposed to have but gets before he joins in short swords or short & longswords depending on join level... Also, HD can get * in any weapon whatsoever and gets way more profs, which combined w/ his spin makes UAI actually useful instead w/ stuff like Carsomyr, instead of just being a penalty-fest.

Oh, and I did mention that HD's tensered thac0 hits +2 & +1 attack over a level 20 fighter's base in mid-SOA, making tensered dual-wielding HD into what amounts to an L20 fighter w/ unnerfed grandmastery, while fighters can't even get to L20 at the SOA level cap?