SOLO ROGUE: Two-Handed Weapon wielding Rogue..
Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 4:20 pm
I've been testing this out as a "solo" character for the most part. (..with a few exceptions to solo-play, like Ostegar and the Kocari Wilderness.)
The basic idea is a "Strength" based build that has a few advantages, because of the much higher Strength.
1. Attack numbers improve. It's a fair bit better than any other Rogue build, and a whole lot better than a "Cunning" based build. (..and note that all those Cunning builds with damage per second calculations always seem to "gloss" over actually hitting opponents.
)
2. Damage (at least per hit) improves. More particularly Backstab damage is significantly higher. By level 8 in Lothering average damage from a Backstab was around 46-47 per hit with the "Chasined" Greatsword (..that you find in the Kocari Wilderness in the chest by the wolves). Note: the concept of a "back-stab" isn't about several minor damage attacks, but rather one massive attack that *hopefully* is lethal - in this respect a two-handed weapon better fits the damage potential conceptually (..if not the idea of using a two-handed weapon to achieve it).
3. You can wear full armor (practically speaking through-out the game). The only time you might be limited to NOT using the best Armor available in the game for that point in time is between levels 8-9 (potentially level 10 depending on Race). At those levels you do have access to better Armor (provided you have the gold), BUT you won't have Strength quite high enough for the very best armor available at that time. By level 10 Strength should be high enough.
4. You can select most Rogue talents without having to spend any talents on weapon-based talents. This is a pretty big deal where either a dual-weapon or Archer based build would always struggle to get the talents it needs. By contrast this build usually has *extra* talents to spend at more appropriate times. Functionally it means that the most important talent "trees": the "Dirty Fighting" tree, the "Deft Hands" tree", and the "Stealth" tree are maxed as soon as their level prerequisites are achieved.
5. Physical Resistance significantly improves.
There are negatives as well however:
1. Your damage per second on attacks, (without respect to actually being able to hit your opponent), won't be as good as a Cunning-based build at high levels dual-wielding (with momentum and full damage runes).
2. You can't leverage Cunning damage modifiers. At very high levels in Origin and through to Awakening you could have 60+ in Cunning. For a Bard with Song of Courage on that could result in about +4.5 per hit (doubled to 9 on a critical or Backstab). Add-in an Assassin with Exploit Weakness (with only a Backstab) and you are looking at about another +9. That's a decent increase, particularly when factoring-in dual-wielding. Again, however - that isn't until late in Origins.
3. You can't leverage Cunning for attack modifiers. This references the Bard's Song of Courage which will net a +8 bonus from a Cunning of 60.
4. Your defensive score won't be nearly as good as a Dexterity based Rogue. (..though likely equal to a Cunning based Rogue.)
5. Your attacks are *slow* (as they are with any two-weapon wielder). This is the biggest "negative" by far.. but remember that at least the 1st attack from a "stealth" position effectively doesn't count for a Solo player. It's FAR worse if you plan on attacking multiple opponents in a *normal* manner however. Also REMEMBER, stealth has a 10 second "cool-down" where you can't RE-enter stealth from a combat state (with the talent Combat Stealth), in the interim you are likely to be hit several times.. (but see additional information below).
6. Your armor penetration won't be as good (..as a Cunning build).
7. You won't be able to "max-out" your *equipment* damage modifier with Backstabs and critical hits. (..this is because the better Backstab damage modification comes from Daggers.)
8. You won't be able to open level 5 chests without a LOT of cunning modifiers.
Additional Notes:
Notes on build:
Despite the significant improvement to attack numbers, the build still needs to get attack numbers as high as possible. Warriors have Precise Strike (..but it even further decreases attack speed). Rogues have the *potential* to equal the attack bonus of Precise Strike at level 7. The specialization class that should be chosen at level 7 is Dualist and it's talent: Dueling. (..and fortunately you have the additional talents to spend on it.) Dueling will need to always be on, and it will "eat-into" your stamina reserves, though note that you won't be using stamina very often - even at higher levels.
You won't be able to play the character as intended until level 8, because it requires the talent: Combat Stealth (..which has a level 8 prerequisite). That's about the end of Lothering (assuming you do virtually everything for experience-point gain).
Assuming the race Dwarf, (overall the best race for this build), you will need to spend 4 points on Cunning for your Deft Hands and Stealth line by level 8. (..only 3 for the race Human.) IF you want Coup de Grace as early as possible, then you will also need to spend 3 points on Dexterity. When you factor-in the Circle Tower/Fade stat bonuses and the top talents for the Deft Hands and Stealth grouping, then only the +3 for Dexterity is being "wasted" for Coup de Grace. (The "wasting" references being able to spend the points on Strength in the alternative.) Note that you could delay selection of Coup de Grace until you have your +4 Dexterity boost from the Fade, but it will make things more difficult.
Your second specialization should probably be Assassin. NOT because of Mark of Death, but rather mostly for Lacerate (which can add substantial damage for this type of build).
Notes on Playing:
Remember this is a "back-stab" build.. play it like that once you are level 8.
USE TRAPS! At the very least layer basic spring traps all over the place before you start to Backstab where there are multiple opponents. Remember when setting a trap to NOT PERFORM ANY ACTION UNTIL THE "COOL-DOWN" ON THE TRAP SETTING IS FINISHED. This keeps you from being seen (or "outed" from stealth).
Trap-Making - The Dragon Age Wiki - Dragon Age, characters, creatures, and more
USE POISON! ***STACK*** them! (..note that the exact same type of poison, (poison dependent) does NOT stack with itself, so you can't use multiples of the same poison - or at least not with those that have secondary effects like Deathroot Extract.) The most important early-on, and the least expensive are Deathroot Extract and Concentrated Deathroot Extract (though more expensive). These are more important for the chance to "stun" than the actual damage increase (particularly if you have Coup de Grace), and they are also easy to access early and are also relatively in-expensive to make.
Poison-Making - The Dragon Age Wiki - Dragon Age, characters, creatures, and more
Always use as much armor as possible. Better armor, better damage reduction, and there doesn't seem to be any penalty to your Stealth. It's particularly needed when facing groups of opponents and making your very first attack. In this situation you have a lot of enemies attacking you and you need to reduce the damage as much as possible until you can re-enter stealth.
Kill one opponent at a time. Usually start with Mages first, followed by Archers, then Rogues, and finally Warriors. Typically attack from behind 1st (which has an attack number Flanking Bonus), following up with a Dirty Fighting attack if the opponent isn't stunned by a poison - hopefully keeping the maximum flanking postion. Concentrate on that single opponent until they are killed, if necessary quaffing healing potions. Once you have killed them, go back into stealth and move away to where you are out of combat OR if you have "limitless" healing potions then drink away.
http://dragonage.gulbsoft.org/doku.php/ ... d_backstab
Increase both Mental and Physical resistance to resist disabling effects. (..particularly Mental because you have very little resistance to it.) Also increase spell resistance.
The basic idea is a "Strength" based build that has a few advantages, because of the much higher Strength.
1. Attack numbers improve. It's a fair bit better than any other Rogue build, and a whole lot better than a "Cunning" based build. (..and note that all those Cunning builds with damage per second calculations always seem to "gloss" over actually hitting opponents.
)2. Damage (at least per hit) improves. More particularly Backstab damage is significantly higher. By level 8 in Lothering average damage from a Backstab was around 46-47 per hit with the "Chasined" Greatsword (..that you find in the Kocari Wilderness in the chest by the wolves). Note: the concept of a "back-stab" isn't about several minor damage attacks, but rather one massive attack that *hopefully* is lethal - in this respect a two-handed weapon better fits the damage potential conceptually (..if not the idea of using a two-handed weapon to achieve it).
3. You can wear full armor (practically speaking through-out the game). The only time you might be limited to NOT using the best Armor available in the game for that point in time is between levels 8-9 (potentially level 10 depending on Race). At those levels you do have access to better Armor (provided you have the gold), BUT you won't have Strength quite high enough for the very best armor available at that time. By level 10 Strength should be high enough.
4. You can select most Rogue talents without having to spend any talents on weapon-based talents. This is a pretty big deal where either a dual-weapon or Archer based build would always struggle to get the talents it needs. By contrast this build usually has *extra* talents to spend at more appropriate times. Functionally it means that the most important talent "trees": the "Dirty Fighting" tree, the "Deft Hands" tree", and the "Stealth" tree are maxed as soon as their level prerequisites are achieved.
5. Physical Resistance significantly improves.
There are negatives as well however:
1. Your damage per second on attacks, (without respect to actually being able to hit your opponent), won't be as good as a Cunning-based build at high levels dual-wielding (with momentum and full damage runes).
2. You can't leverage Cunning damage modifiers. At very high levels in Origin and through to Awakening you could have 60+ in Cunning. For a Bard with Song of Courage on that could result in about +4.5 per hit (doubled to 9 on a critical or Backstab). Add-in an Assassin with Exploit Weakness (with only a Backstab) and you are looking at about another +9. That's a decent increase, particularly when factoring-in dual-wielding. Again, however - that isn't until late in Origins.
3. You can't leverage Cunning for attack modifiers. This references the Bard's Song of Courage which will net a +8 bonus from a Cunning of 60.
4. Your defensive score won't be nearly as good as a Dexterity based Rogue. (..though likely equal to a Cunning based Rogue.)
5. Your attacks are *slow* (as they are with any two-weapon wielder). This is the biggest "negative" by far.. but remember that at least the 1st attack from a "stealth" position effectively doesn't count for a Solo player. It's FAR worse if you plan on attacking multiple opponents in a *normal* manner however. Also REMEMBER, stealth has a 10 second "cool-down" where you can't RE-enter stealth from a combat state (with the talent Combat Stealth), in the interim you are likely to be hit several times.. (but see additional information below).
6. Your armor penetration won't be as good (..as a Cunning build).
7. You won't be able to "max-out" your *equipment* damage modifier with Backstabs and critical hits. (..this is because the better Backstab damage modification comes from Daggers.)
8. You won't be able to open level 5 chests without a LOT of cunning modifiers.
Additional Notes:
Notes on build:
Despite the significant improvement to attack numbers, the build still needs to get attack numbers as high as possible. Warriors have Precise Strike (..but it even further decreases attack speed). Rogues have the *potential* to equal the attack bonus of Precise Strike at level 7. The specialization class that should be chosen at level 7 is Dualist and it's talent: Dueling. (..and fortunately you have the additional talents to spend on it.) Dueling will need to always be on, and it will "eat-into" your stamina reserves, though note that you won't be using stamina very often - even at higher levels.
You won't be able to play the character as intended until level 8, because it requires the talent: Combat Stealth (..which has a level 8 prerequisite). That's about the end of Lothering (assuming you do virtually everything for experience-point gain).
Assuming the race Dwarf, (overall the best race for this build), you will need to spend 4 points on Cunning for your Deft Hands and Stealth line by level 8. (..only 3 for the race Human.) IF you want Coup de Grace as early as possible, then you will also need to spend 3 points on Dexterity. When you factor-in the Circle Tower/Fade stat bonuses and the top talents for the Deft Hands and Stealth grouping, then only the +3 for Dexterity is being "wasted" for Coup de Grace. (The "wasting" references being able to spend the points on Strength in the alternative.) Note that you could delay selection of Coup de Grace until you have your +4 Dexterity boost from the Fade, but it will make things more difficult.
Your second specialization should probably be Assassin. NOT because of Mark of Death, but rather mostly for Lacerate (which can add substantial damage for this type of build).
Notes on Playing:
Remember this is a "back-stab" build.. play it like that once you are level 8.
USE TRAPS! At the very least layer basic spring traps all over the place before you start to Backstab where there are multiple opponents. Remember when setting a trap to NOT PERFORM ANY ACTION UNTIL THE "COOL-DOWN" ON THE TRAP SETTING IS FINISHED. This keeps you from being seen (or "outed" from stealth).
Trap-Making - The Dragon Age Wiki - Dragon Age, characters, creatures, and more
USE POISON! ***STACK*** them! (..note that the exact same type of poison, (poison dependent) does NOT stack with itself, so you can't use multiples of the same poison - or at least not with those that have secondary effects like Deathroot Extract.) The most important early-on, and the least expensive are Deathroot Extract and Concentrated Deathroot Extract (though more expensive). These are more important for the chance to "stun" than the actual damage increase (particularly if you have Coup de Grace), and they are also easy to access early and are also relatively in-expensive to make.
Poison-Making - The Dragon Age Wiki - Dragon Age, characters, creatures, and more
Always use as much armor as possible. Better armor, better damage reduction, and there doesn't seem to be any penalty to your Stealth. It's particularly needed when facing groups of opponents and making your very first attack. In this situation you have a lot of enemies attacking you and you need to reduce the damage as much as possible until you can re-enter stealth.
Kill one opponent at a time. Usually start with Mages first, followed by Archers, then Rogues, and finally Warriors. Typically attack from behind 1st (which has an attack number Flanking Bonus), following up with a Dirty Fighting attack if the opponent isn't stunned by a poison - hopefully keeping the maximum flanking postion. Concentrate on that single opponent until they are killed, if necessary quaffing healing potions. Once you have killed them, go back into stealth and move away to where you are out of combat OR if you have "limitless" healing potions then drink away.
http://dragonage.gulbsoft.org/doku.php/ ... d_backstab
Increase both Mental and Physical resistance to resist disabling effects. (..particularly Mental because you have very little resistance to it.) Also increase spell resistance.