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I wanna create a warrior 'cause i like melee combat. But i don't want a hack'n'slash character. you know, i wanna do some role play. there's a prejudice that fighters always muscler but thick headed, yeah maybe it's true. but i don't wanna wear heavy armors, great swords or axes. i prefer to wear medium or light armors and use one handed swords. and my character must have talking abilities and some intelligence and wisdom. 'cause i said, i don't want only a left-click and kill gladiator. i want a warrior who have some role play stuff.

Maybe i should give some examples about what kind of character i want to play...

Prince of Persia Warrior Within
([url="http://xboxmedia.ign.com/xbox/image/article/571/571389/prince-of-persia-warrior-within-20041206042605130_640w.jpg"]http://xboxmedia.ign.com/xbox/image/article/571/571389/prince-of-persia-warrior-within-20041206042605130_640w.jpg[/url],
[url="http://www.totalwallpapers.com/games/wallpapers/prince-of-persia-warrior-within.jpg"]http://www.totalwallpapers.com/games/wallpapers/prince-of-persia-warrior-within.jpg[/url]

Aragorn from LOTR
[url="http://img1.blogcu.com/images/h/a/y/hayretet/aragorn.jpg"]http://img1.blogcu.com/images/h/a/y/hayretet/aragorn.jpg[/url]
[url="http://www.comicsbulletin.com/features/images/horn1/aragorn.jpg"]http://www.comicsbulletin.com/features/images/horn1/aragorn.jpg[/url]

maybe Rannek from Demon Stone
[url="http://www.houseofchai.net/Assets/artmonth/tjphan01.jpg"]http://www.houseofchai.net/Assets/artmonth/tjphan01.jpg[/url]

I can't deciede which class should i choose, a figter, ranger, or paladin. And i can't deciede which kind of style i'll use, dual wield or one handed longsword (without shield). I don't want a slow and tank-like warrior. I want more agile warrior...

Can anyone help me? thanks

No one says that warriors can't use diplomatic skills. If you want you can.
Medium and light armors is great for Rangers and they are far more agile than other fighting classes.
Typical "fight & diplomacy class" is Paladin. He also has some cleric spells so it isn't a boring class.

When you create a character you can make anyone. It can be even an orc Bard... it all depends on you and your imagination.

Oh, and don't forget that in NWN2 you can use Bluff and Intimidate as often as Diplomacy which are typical skills for strong, bad-ass warriors.

ithil_craban wrote:
Can anyone help me? thanks

Maybe..

What campaigns do you have? (i.e NWN'2 original campaign, Mask of the Betrayer, and Storm of Zehir). Note that additional campaigns provide additional classes.

The best single class to match to your description would be the Swashbuckler, but that requires Storm of Zehir.

Realistically however, you can craft a build that has everything you want "+", and only requires the original campaign.

I went ahead and did a "Rannek'esq" fighter type that only required the "OC":

http://nwn2db.com/build.php?id=29199&version=1

The reason?

Rannek seems to be using a Greatsword, but with one hand..

I wanted a weapon that was considered *Large* by the game to leverage Improved Disarms.

IMO Disarms are more of a "thinking mans" fighter, and unfortunately weapon size figures into the calculation, with the larger the weapon the better the chance to disarm.

I also chose Falchion instead of Greatsword (though the 2 are very similar).

Falchion's have better criticals, and again your fighter's ability to hit a critical often means a more precise attack (..again, more of a "thinking mans" fighter). (..there is also a really nice one you "procure" about mid-way into the game.)

Wear "breastplate" armor, and later when you can purchase it (or more likely have Khelgar craft it), *MITHRAL* breastplate.

Breastplate is medium armor with a decent Dexterity modifier bonus to your armor. Mithral Breastplate is *light* armor with an excellent Dexterity modifier bonus to your armor.

The Bard class and feat Able Learner is there to get your skills up, and particularly you dialog skills. (..it also has song of courage to increase your attack numbers).

The Frenzied Berserker is there to provide Supreme Cleave. (..it also gives you Toughness.)

The Red Dragon Disciple class adds-in additional Strength (for attack and damage bonuses), and additional armor bonuses that "stack". It also provides Blind Fight and even the opportunity to cast Fireball once per day.

You can make a Disarm maneuver by level 7 (..which is only about 15% of the way into the game).

You will be a pretty good fighter at any level, both one-on-one and against multiple attackers. You are also intelligent for most fighters, nor are you "un-wise". Your are Nimble with the skill Tumble (and your good Dexterity score), and you can use magical equipment you might otherwise be unable to because of class with the skill Use Magic Device. Your hearing is superb, allowing you to detect hidden and moving invisible opponents.

Thanks for your answers. And Scottg, your advices REALLY helped me much Demon Stone is one of my favorite games i've ever played and a Rannek-like fighting style is what i want to build in Neverwinter Nights or other C-RPGs. With your Rannek'esq Disarming Fighter build, i live in peace May the force be with you Scottg

Next time i'll play as a rogue/fighter. Can you give some advice about it, too?

(Again, a Demon Stone character Zhai)
[url="http://www.houseofchai.net/Assets/artmonth/tjphan03.jpg"]http://www.houseofchai.net/Assets/artmonth/tjphan03.jpg[/url]
[url="http://media.teamxbox.com/games/ss/895/1089634186.jpg"]http://media.teamxbox.com/games/ss/895/1089634186.jpg[/url]

And, for a dual-wielder rogue which one is better? Dagger or short sword?

In vanilla NWN2 strengther rogues do pretty well...

Here's a thinking man's strengther rogue who can use combat expertise, HIPS, knockdown, crippling strike, feint, and power attack. Tiefling gives him high intelligence and a bonus to bluff and dexterity. He can use a shield when he is turtling and 2 handed when laying on the pain. The strength damage and AC (a pure dexer exceeds the benefit mithril chainshirt + belt of dex +8 can give anyway and you get a shield and enhancement) and versatility (damage when NOT sneaking = a novel concept in rogues particularly vs undead etc) outweigh 3 extra attacks imho.

vanilla NWN2 dashing fool | NWN2 Character Builder

* note Shadow thief of amn reputation and double speak boost feint... This will easily be able to feint and do all dialogue with Finch's Chapeux item + plenty of skillpoints from intelligence, particularly. You can take Shadow thief as soon as you get the epitaph just bump it up and take Combat Expertise and feint as your bonus feats.. (to get feint earlier)... Until then you can still use shadow dancer. You will want to wear armor with a low penalty to skills such as studded leather in the beginning... You have enough dex to HIPS in the campaign.. When able to you want a mithril chainmail giving zero skill penalty which can be the arcane archers chain.. or craft your own. Then you can still cats grace yourself to even higher dex and AC.

Claudius's is good, but it will be much more difficult to play than the "fighter-type". (..largely because of the racial level penalty and the medium bab progression.) However if it is your second time to play the game then it shouldn't be a problem.

Hide in Plain Sight (HiPS) is pretty much a "must" for a good Rogue build, and that almost always means one level of Shadow Dancer at level character level 8 - the earliest you can get it because of the requirement for 10 hide skill (which you can't achieve until character level 7 at the earliest).

As far as dual-wielding weapon choice: Kukris (both hands).

1. they are specified as tiny (like daggers) so they minimize attack penalties for off-hand use.
2. they have a better threat range on criticals.

Note that I wouldn't recommend a two-weapon fighter build (Rogue-type) without the campaign expansion MOTB (..and preferably SOZ as well). If you are only interested in the Rogue skills (rather than hiding and striking from stealth), then I think a good two-weapon fighter build can be built.

If you use crafting the game is a cakewalk with any warrior build..

The worst thing about my build is it only has 15 BAB so only 3 attacks.. Which kind of sucks, but I think if you go too much fighter its very hard to cover all the thief skills...

Actually let me fix it. You don't need crippling strike. Better to take fighter 8 thief 8 StoA3 gain and greater weapon focus

http://nwn2db.com/build.php?id=29314&version=1 fixed

Ok I'll explain how feint adds to the versatility (hey you already have HIPs for sneak)

1 You can feint people in their face
a save time HIPsing in and out just push one button
b tank/bodyguard mages while at same time deliver sneaks

2 You strip the dodge AC on both HIPs and feint but ONLY on feint will this apply to the whole party = good idea against a big boss beast monster or when your flanking someone kelgar is fighting for instance...

3 Enemies turn to face you HIPsing and only the first triad of attacks eg 4 attacks you'd get 2 sneaks.. Feint you get 4... 7 attacks you get 3 feint you get 7 (I believe not sure)

4 HIPs cooldown

Claudius wrote:The worst thing about my build is it only has 15 BAB so only 3 attacks.. Which kind of sucks, but I think if you go too much fighter its very hard to cover all the thief skills...

Actually let me fix it. You don't need crippling strike. Better to take fighter 8 thief 8 StoA3 gain and greater weapon focus

vanilla NWN2 dashing fool | NWN2 Character Builder fixed

Ok I'll explain how feint adds to the versatility (hey you already have HIPs for sneak)

1 You can feint people in their face
a save time HIPsing in and out just push one button
b tank/bodyguard mages while at same time deliver sneaks

2 You strip the dodge AC on both HIPs and feint but ONLY on feint will this apply to the whole party = good idea against a big boss beast monster or when your flanking someone kelgar is fighting for instance...

3 Enemies turn to face you HIPsing and only the first triad of attacks eg 4 attacks you'd get 2 sneaks.. Feint you get 4... 7 attacks you get 3 feint you get 7 (I believe not sure)

4 HIPs cooldown

I think the biggest problem is: Sneak Attack, or Melee'er?

This isn't so much about Strength versus Dexterity for the build, but rather Sneak Attack levels vs. Non-Sneak Attack levels.

For instance: At level *13* you have 4d6 of Sneak Attack damage, which averages to 12 points of physical damage (with non-Sneak Attack immune opponents).

Knockdown is also going to suffer for most of the build life against most opponents. By level 14-15 however you should have a fair bit of additional Strength modification to make Knockdown a reality against most opponents. (..of course Knockdown will always be useful against 95% of magic casters.)

Feint you won't even be able to use until nearing the end of the game.


My suggestion: Limit it's scope.

EITHER:
1. HiPS with LOTS of Sneak Attack damage, OR
2. Feint (early-on) with modest Sneak Attack damage.

I tried out a build with OC-only and #1 here:

Death's Accomplice | NWN2 Character Builder

It has some additional bonuses to Attack numbers (largely from Stealth), while having full 10d6 Sneak Attack damage at level 20. Strength is improved enough for Knockdown to have a better chance of success early-on, and it increases attack and damage bonuses by +1. (..though the +1 attack bonus is needed when compared to a build with several fighter levels at the beginning.)

Again by comparison: at level *12* the build has 6d6, or an average of 18 Sneak Attack damage.

Always enjoy reading your posts Scottg.

Tricky wrote:Always enjoy reading your posts Scottg.

Graci!



On the subject of Two-Weapon Fighting builds..

Using only the OC, I could not come up with a *good* build that was based around the Rogue.

By "good" I mean where most attacks will *hit*at most levels, has good damage at any level, isn't bad with multi-opponent attacks, etc..

What I eventually "gravitated" toward was this:

Divine Fury | NWN2 Character Builder

But obviously skills are pretty lacking in this build, and Will saves suck.


Here is something crawling out of the abyss:

http://nwn2db.com/build.php?id=29426&version=1

This is a tank and a rogue (for skills)..

Has 4 attacks unlike your build and 1 more AB... Also has power attack and weapon specialization for another 8 damage a hit against low armored opponents and 2 damage a hit against every opponent..

Oh and kukri is better than either dagger or short sword.. crits

Here's a strengther rogue I designed a while back utilizing more careful thought than my other build... 9d6 sneak, BAB 16, good AC, good saves, Magic resistance, Feint, Power Attack, Cleave, Divine Shield

{to get SToA so early you'll need to download a trainer to grant epithet... you might also spot yourself some xp since your drow if you want to hit level 20, though you get more xp for encounters as a drow since xp is scaled to actual rather than effective level if I recall}

Rogue(11), Shadow Thief of Amn(4), Blackguard(4), Fighter(1)

Race: Drow



Alignment: Any evil
Deity: -

STR: 16(20)
DEX: 14
CON: 14
WIS: 8
INT: 14
CHA: 17(18)


Bonusfeats: §: Rogue, $: Shadow Thief of Amn, &: Fighter

Lvl 01: Rogue(1): Background: Tale-Teller0, Blindfighting, {Sneak Attack (+1d6), Trapfinding}
Lvl 02: Rogue(2): {Evasion}
Lvl 03: Rogue(3): Stealthy, {Trap Sense (+1)}
Lvl 04: Rogue(4): STR+1, {Uncanny Dodge}, (STR=17)
Lvl 05: Rogue(5)
Lvl 06: Shadow Thief of Amn(1): Able Learner, {Shadow Thief of Amn Sneak Attack 1, Doublespeak}
Lvl 07: Shadow Thief of Amn(2): Combat Expertise $
Lvl 08: Shadow Thief of Amn(3): STR+1, {Shadow Thief of Amn Reputation}, (STR=18)
Lvl 09: Shadow Thief of Amn(4): Power Attack, Feint $
Lvl 10: Rogue(6)
Lvl 11: Rogue(7)
Lvl 12: Rogue(8): STR+1, Cleave, {Improved Uncanny Dodge}, (STR=19)
Lvl 13: Blackguard(1): {Use Poison}
Lvl 14: Blackguard(2): {Smite Good, Dark Blessing, Bull's Strength}
Lvl 15: Rogue(9): SF (Bluff)
Lvl 16: Rogue(10): STR+1, Crippling Strike §, (STR=20)
Lvl 17: Blackguard(3): {Turn Undead, Create Undead, Aura of Despair}
Lvl 18: Blackguard(4): Divine Shield, {Sneak Attack, Blackguard (+1d6)}
Lvl 19: Rogue(11)
Lvl 20: Fighter(1): CHA+1, WF (Scimitar) &, {Tower Shield Proficiency}, (CHA=18), *XP Penalty -20%*

Hitpoints: 180
BAB: 16
Saving Throws (Fortitude/Reflex/Will): 16/19/8

Skillpoints: 192
Max. Melee AB: 22 (Scimitar), Max. Ranged AB: 18

Spell Casting:

Sneak Attack: 9d6
Alignment Changes: 0

Bluff: 23(35), Diplomacy: 18(26), Disable Device: 23(25), Hide: 8(12), Intimidate: 18(24), Move Silently: 3(7), Open Lock: 22(24), Spellcraft: 10(12), Taunt: 23(27), Tumble: 20(22), Use Magic Device: 23(27)



Lvl 01 (Ro): Bluff 4(4), Diplomacy 4(4), Disable Device 4(4), Hide 4(4), Intimidate 4(4), Move Silently 3(3), Open Lock 4(4), Taunt 4(4), Tumble 4(4), Use Magic Device 4(4), Save 1
Lvl 02 (Ro): Bluff 1(5), Diplomacy 1(5), Disable Device 1(5), Hide 1(5), Intimidate 1(5), Open Lock 1(5), Taunt 1(5), Tumble 1(5), Use Magic Device 1(5), Save 2
Lvl 03 (Ro): Bluff 1(6), Diplomacy 1(6), Disable Device 1(6), Hide 1(6), Intimidate 1(6), Open Lock 1(6), Taunt 1(6), Tumble 1(6), Use Magic Device 1(6), Save 3
Lvl 04 (Ro): Bluff 1(7), Diplomacy 1(7), Disable Device 1(7), Hide 1(7), Intimidate 1(7), Open Lock 1(7), Taunt 1(7), Tumble 1(7), Use Magic Device 1(7), Save 4
Lvl 05 (Ro): Bluff 1(8), Diplomacy 1(8), Disable Device 1(8), Hide 1(8), Intimidate 1(8), Open Lock 1(8), Taunt 1(8), Tumble 1(8), Use Magic Device 1(8), Save 5
Lvl 06 (STA): Bluff 1(9), Diplomacy 1(9), Disable Device 1(9), Intimidate 1(9), Open Lock 1(9), Taunt 1(9), Tumble 1(9), Use Magic Device 1(9), Save 4
Lvl 07 (STA): Bluff 1(10), Diplomacy 1(10), Disable Device 1(10), Intimidate 1(10), Open Lock 1(10), Taunt 1(10), Tumble 1(10), Use Magic Device 1(10), Save 4
Lvl 08 (STA): Bluff 1(11), Diplomacy 1(11), Disable Device 1(11), Intimidate 1(11), Open Lock 1(11), Taunt 1(11), Tumble 1(11), Use Magic Device 1(11), Save 4
Lvl 09 (STA): Bluff 1(12), Diplomacy 1(12), Disable Device 1(12), Intimidate 1(12), Open Lock 1(12), Taunt 1(12), Tumble 1(12), Use Magic Device 1(12), Save 4
Lvl 10 (Ro): Bluff 1(13), Diplomacy 1(13), Disable Device 1(13), Intimidate 1(13), Open Lock 1(13), Spellcraft 5(5), Taunt 1(13), Tumble 1(13), Use Magic Device 1(13), Save 1
Lvl 11 (Ro): Bluff 1(14), Diplomacy 1(14), Disable Device 1(14), Intimidate 1(14), Open Lock 1(14), Taunt 1(14), Tumble 1(14), Use Magic Device 1(14), Save 3
Lvl 12 (Ro): Bluff 1(15), Diplomacy 1(15), Disable Device 1(15), Intimidate 1(15), Open Lock 1(15), Taunt 1(15), Tumble 1(15), Use Magic Device 1(15), Save 5
Lvl 13 (BG): Bluff 1(16), Disable Device 1(16), Open Lock 1(16), Taunt 1(16), Tumble 1(16), Use Magic Device 1(16), Save 3
Lvl 14 (BG): Bluff 1(17), Disable Device 1(17), Open Lock 1(17), Taunt 1(17), Tumble 1(17), Use Magic Device 1(17), Save 1
Lvl 15 (Ro): Bluff 1(18), Diplomacy 2(17), Disable Device 1(18), Intimidate 2(17), Open Lock 1(18), Taunt 1(18), Tumble 1(18), Use Magic Device 1(18), Save 1
Lvl 16 (Ro): Bluff 1(19), Diplomacy 1(18), Disable Device 1(19), Intimidate 1(18), Open Lock 1(19), Taunt 1(19), Tumble 1(19), Use Magic Device 1(19), Save 3
Lvl 17 (BG): Bluff 1(20), Disable Device 1(20), Open Lock 1(20), Taunt 1(20), Tumble 1(20), Use Magic Device 1(20), Save 1
Lvl 18 (BG): Bluff 1(21), Disable Device 1(21), Open Lock 1(21), Taunt 1(21), Use Magic Device 1(21)
Lvl 19 (Ro): Bluff 1(22), Disable Device 1(22), Open Lock 1(22), Spellcraft 5(10), Taunt 1(22), Use Magic Device 1(22)
Lvl 20 (F): Bluff 1(23), Disable Device 1(23), Taunt 1(23), Use Magic Device 1(23)

Claudius wrote:This is a tank and a rogue (for skills)..

Has 4 attacks unlike your build and 1 more AB... Also has power attack and weapon specialization for another 8 damage a hit against low armored opponents and 2 damage a hit against every opponent..

OK, tank + skills with some HiPS action.

I still think the Feint route isn't doing much. The concept I get, it's just that in the OC what are you facing at the end? ..and up until then what kind of damage are you getting from standard Sneak Attacks? In other words: can you get more useful damage elsewhere without destroying your skills?

For instance the "Death's Accomplice" build that I did, actually works as a Sneak Attacker UNTIL near the end of the game. :laugh: Then it falls apart completely. BUT its got a little more time at level 20 because there isn't a level penalty.

The "Death Dealer" build that I just did was there to see if I could leverage the relatively minor extra damage from Sneak Attacks via additional attacks at near full Attack numbers. Of course it too has problems at the end of the game, at least with respect to Feint/Sneak Attacks.. BUT it also has Divine Might for an additional +6 Damage (with Charisma cloak) without attack penalties.

Claudius wrote:Here's a strengther rogue I designed a while back utilizing more careful thought than my other build...

Looks better but it has a few problems for the OC.

2 Level Penalty,
Shadow Thief class (without MOTB) - isn't available until about level 11 (with no level penalty, and with a 2 level penalty about level 9).. *maybe* as early as level 8 for this character?,
No HiPS or Feint. (or Invisibility).

I've tried feint build after feint build.. and damn, building one that has access to feint's early-on WITH good skills is tough.

I finally had to "cheat" to get something interesting.

Harper Agent (OC) | NWN2 Character Builder

..and it's better alternative:

http://nwn2db.com/build.php?id=29483&version=1

Scott as I said unless your a purist you can download HoTBoB or other from fileplanet and use a lever to grant SToA epitethat and enough xp for level 3....

Claudius wrote:Scott as I said unless your a purist you can download HoTBoB or other from fileplanet and use a lever to grant SToA epitethat and enough xp for level 3....

Yes, Vordans will do this as well..

I'm thinking more along the lines of new player, not necessarily a purist. Someone who might not even understand Import/Export.

Thanks again for your answers. But still i don't understand one thing. A rogue can't fight as effective as fighter in close combat, but does a fighter as agile as a rogue? I mean, can a fighter use his dexterity effectively for dodging, jumping and a swift fighting style. Like Prince of Persia Warrior Within. Is he a rogue or warrior?

There's a couple of feats Rogues get that improves their thief-like ability. As far as agility goes, they get Uncanny dodge and Improved Uncanny dodge, all for free. Fighters get to choose from extra feats, but they're only drawn from the combat related feat group.

Also, look at [url="http://nwn2.wikia.com/wiki/Save"]this[/url]. Fighters get a high Fortitude save progression while they level, while Rogues get high Reflex saves. This doesn't affect combat directly, but helps immensely when trying to dodge certain spells and all traps. They cause special damage.

They also get different hit die as they grow.