GameBanshee Forums

Hey folks,
I know you think that this topic has been discussed to death but I still want some input.
Bear in mind this is a modded BG 2 ToB installation so quite some stuff you are used to won't work.

I got several mods but I will list the most important ones:
Ascension
Longer Road
SCSII
Refinements

Refinements gives a lot of new HLAs out and replaces a lot and Sorc has a completely new HLA table. If you do not know it here is a TXT for all the changes. It is very long:
http://refinements.spellholdstudios.net ... d_HLAs.txt

My party will consist of:

Saros (my Sorcerer, level 10 atm)
Jaheira
Korgan (later maybe Sarevok)
Jan
Haer'dalis
Viconia

Picks so far:

Level 1:
MM
CO
Shield
Prot f Evil.
Blindness

Level 2:
Melfs
Glitterdust
MI
Blur
Web? (might be redundant with Glitterdust around)

Level 3:
MMM
Flame Arrow
Remove Magic
Slow
Haste? Not sure about last pick

Level 4:
II
Stoneskin
MGoI (against MMM)
Greater Malison
Sequencer
Not sure about last pick. Farsight maybe?

Level 5:
Cone of Cold
Breach
Lower Resistence
Spell Immunity
Spell Shield (Recommended for Ascension by a lot of people)

Level 6:
Chain Lightning
Pierce Magic
Prot Energy (Horrid Wilting is used a lot)
Prot Magical Weapons
No idea about last pick albeit maybe not even getting it

Level 7:
Mordy
Prot f. Elem. (some protection against elemental damage is needed)
Sequencer
PI
Limited Wish

I am not sure in which order I should get the spells here

Level 8:
Abi
Simulacrum
Trigger
Pierce Shield

Again order after Abi Dalzims is a problem. I will most likely decide on the fly

Level 9:
Timestop
CC
Wish
Gate

No idea which order after Time Stop.

HLAs (up to 14):
Inner Focus
Casting by Intent
Speed Increase * 3
Aura Cleansing (Kind of Imp. Alacrity)
Shockwave *3
Energy Storm
Shatter Magic
Magic Resistance
Channel Magic
No idea about 14th pick

I do realize that I might not be able to reach level 31 in party play. I might do some stuff solo on that Sorc which he should be able to.
Since a lot of cheese stuff doesn't work and I want to refrain from it anyway.

That means no Shapechange Timestop Combo for cheese Int Drain kills.
No Mislead Clone stuffed away.
No quick items for Clones.
No CC cast in combat only for preparations.
No Sunfire to cheesily work around magic resistance. Same goes for targetting myself to prevent magic resistance working for enemies.

Only cheese I allow for myself is PI but even that got limited by patches and mods, no quick items and no CC+PI Combo for 3 aditional ones.

In case you wonder why I choose Gate I have only 1 real summon Mordy Swords and I lacked otherwise and since I use Refinements I won't be able to pick Planetar.
I need the level 7 spells for more important ones on Viccy and Jae. So it makes sense to me.
My main problem is that I want Del. Blast Fireball as a second off targetable AoE spell like Horrid Wilting. I am unsure which other level 7 spell I want to replace for that or if I can easily play without.
Skull Trap is capped to 12d6 by the way so a lot weaker than the horribly broken vanilla one.

Chain Lightning because I lack lightning damage and because it is party friendly which I like a lot. Same goes for Abi over Incendiary Cloud which the SCSII AI can handle much better than the vanilla one so a lot of the potential damage goes wasted. Quite some Zones of Sweet Air spells cast by clerics as well. Abi also deals about double damage initially compared to Incendiary Cloud which is also a nice plus.
I got all the lower resistance stuff for my sorc and Pierce Shield will allow me to get down Spell Traps albeit Abi Dalzims Horrid Wiltings might be able to circumvent some. Still not all are subjected to it and some use Prot Energy.

I am also not sure about the right order of spell picks yet for levels after my first level 5 pick Cone of Cold.
Normally I tend to turn 16 in the Underdark with just Twisted Rune, dragons and Watchers Keep left behind in Chapter 2 which I do before Suldanesselar.

I tend to take my time and solve almost everything I can on my BG playthroughs.

Thanks for any input in advance

I think you're missing a big one - Improved Haste at level 6.

As for your blasting AoE spells, you're missing the early ones - Skulltrap and/or Fireball. I've always found Slow/Haste to be bad picks for party sorcerers - they are really only good early game (e.g. you get improved haste and items that give improved haste later and as for Slow, once you hit mid-game, only weak opponents will fail their save). I'd lose Haste and Slow since they become useless mid-late Soa+TOB and go for one of the damage spells or even Invisibility 10' Radius, since then you walk your whole party through areas or position them for a quick strike better. Jan or Haery can cast Haste/Slow if you really want them from a tactical avenue in the early game.

For level 2, Resist Fear will serve you much better (Dragons, Demons, mages who cast horror) than Web throughout the whole game (again web loses it's value as the game progresses and enemies consistently make their saves). even basic level 2 invisibility would probably be more useful throughout the whole game than Web.

Imp. Haste is nice I grant you that but it has a very distinctive drawback: It does nothing for Jan, Viccy and my Sorcerer what Haste does not do already.
Furthermore it is a single cast only while Haste only takes away 1 level 3 slot and affects the whole party.
Ok I do not know if Imp Haste with MMM work. 10 MMMs per round sound very vicious. Then again I am using SCSII and got it's enchantment reduced to +2 instead of the cheesy +6 like it was in the original game. So quite a few enemies are not affected by it. As it should be, a level 3 spell cannot be the answer to everything.

You seriously understimate Slow. It comes with a hefty -4 penalty to the save. Throw in a GM and a Doom and we talk about -10 to saves. A lot are still affected by it later even in ToB. I did spy what my chars look like at max level and all beside Korgan had their saves vs spells in the 5-8 regions. Now add 10 on that and tell me again that everyone easily saves against it.

Of course I won't try it a lot on bosses but for countering haste and thanks to SCSII again lots of melee types do have haste potions and for making life easy against lesser foes it is very nice. It is also party friendly, a big plus in my book.

As for damage spells, I got Flame Arrow and MMM already. That should suffice. If I understood it correctly, Flame Arrow is not capped at 20 so at level 30 we speak about 6 arrows each doing 5d6 damage overall. That is 30d6 damage, and 6d6 is unsavable of that.
Skull Trab on the other hand is capped at 12d6 due to the SCSII fix. Yes I view it as a fix. It was ridiculous that a level 3 spell could be nearly as damaging as a level 8 spell.

Web on the other hand is very debatable and I have not really used ot albeit for a totally different reason: It is not party friendly and I dislike party unfriendly spells. Glitterdust suffices for a party friendly disabler with a Invis detection component.

Resist fear can be easily done by Viccy albeit it is named Remove Fear it does the same thing. Level 1 priest spell has two very nice onces in Sanctuary and Armor of Faith but she will have 6-7 per day already at level 11 or 12 already so 1-2 easily fit.

Even Jaheira can get one in. So Resist Fear is not that crucial. Invis on the other hand is very nice and having an Invis which I can load up in a the Minor Sequencer is nice as well.

I have changed to Invis for Web now via Shadowkeeper. If I really want Web I can let it cast by Haer'dalis or Jan.

Also do not discount early game. It has to be played through as well.

Level 2- Ray of Enfeeblement may be worth a thought.
3- Dire Charm
4 - Confusion is good, as is Polymorph Self for the Mustard Jelly. Animate Dead could be worthwhile.
6- Summon Nishruu, Tenser's, Mislead, or Death Spell for anti-summons. Probably Mislead.

on Imp Haste vs Haste - what's more important, moving Jaheira and Korgan from 2.5-4 attacks/rd up to 6-8 attacks per round OR only giving them +1 attack and giving the other 4 characters +1 attack. Plus in TOB, you'll want to use a bunch of your HLAs on Hardiness, assuming you've got the difficulty mods enhancing things like you've said.

If you're going to setup enemies with Greater Malison and Doom, why follow it up with Slow? Why not "save or else" spells that fully incapacitate or outright kill the enemies rather than just cutting their actions in half? Use things like Chromatic Orb, Hold Person, Horror (another level 2 slot you might try, party friendly), Emotion, Finger of Death/Slay Living, Dire charm, Charm Person, etc You went through all that trouble to pound their saves down, don't dilly dally around, just go for the throat. Especially with only 2 attacking melee characters, if you're going to shoot a bunch of your spellbook at them, make sure they're down for the count.

Emotion: Hopeless is a good pick for 4th level that has always served me well - totally incapacitates the enemies that fail the save. And it's party friendly so if they get up on you quickly, you can still fire away right in the middle of your party.

If your characters saves in TOB are all in the 5-8 range then you're not equipping or buffing your characters properly

You're right, the early game does need to be played, but you have 2 other arcane casters if you want a casting of Slow or other spells that are good early game and mediocre late game, so why not load up your Sorcerer with spells that are good the whole way through? Although if Slow is good for you early and late, then definitely keep using it.

Also, SCSII has a LOT of components - have you installed the Smarter Mages component? If so you'll want Ruby Ray of Reversal because the mages will cast Spell Immunity Abjuration and RRR is the only non-Abjuration spell remover.

If you take Protection from Energy at 8th level (5th slot or instead of simulacrum), that doubles the effects of protection from the elements and protection from magic energy, freeing up a slot at 6 and 7 where there are a lot of good spells to add. Something to think about.

On the Save or Else Spells, Slow is the only one with a hefty -4 penalty on top as well. The others might have more drastic effects, but at most have a -2 or even 0 penalty. Chromatic Orb has a +6 modfier even albeit I got that one.
Still will think about getting Polymorph Other it is the best I think or Emotion Hoplesness. Does Polymorph other work on every type of enemy?

RRR is a good idea I think but you can circumvent protections with AoE as well so Del Blast Fireball might work as well. Plus Jan can memorize too. I will ponder RRR though thanks for reminding me that it is an alteration spell and can circumvent SI Abj.

On the Prot Energy+Prot El.the nice thing about those is that I can get them rather early albeit granted not many cast Abis so soon in the game. Lavok and Galchobair come to mind but after that I can't remember that many mages using it. The Lich at the start of the Underdark.
I tend to do Kangaxx and the other Liches in Chapter 6 likewise the same for

Still what to give up at level 8? Ok with RRR I might forfeit Pierce Shield but I wanted that for the Ravager albeit I might use my Limited Wish Shapechange for that one. I heard that the Greater Wolfwere can beat it with a CC and Triggers.

Freeing up Prot Energy for Imp Haste is a good idea though since it's use is very limited.

Do you think Pierce Magic and Lower Resistence is enough for Ascension to lower MR?

On the Saves at high levels of course they were without gear. But afaik most enemies are not as well geared as the party.

SCSII I installed all components nearly.

If you only really want Pierce Shield for the Ravager fight, you can have one of the mages scribe it and cast it, or just collect 3-4 scrolls and cast directly from scrolls. That way you don't take up one whole spell slot on your PC for just one fight.

Ok thanks for the input so with that in mind I rearranged some spells:

1:
MM
Shield
Blindness
Prot Evil
CO

2:
Glitterdust
Mirror
Melf
Blur
Invis

3:
Flame Arrow
Melfs
Remove Magic
Slow
Fireball or Skulltrap (12d6)

4:
Stoneskin
MGoI
imp invis
Sequencer
Polymorph other

5:
Cone of Cold
Breach
LR
SI
Spell Shield

6:
Chain Lightning
ProMW
Imp. Haste
Pierce Magic
True Sight


7:
Limited Wish
Mord Sword
RRR
Sequencer
PI


8:
Abi Dalzims
Prot Energy
Trigger
Simulacrum

9:
Gate
Timestop
Wish
CC

Mh I think I like that. Any other ideas? Still a bit unsure about the correct order, I rearranged with a certain order in mind as well now. Not sure if I get all essential spells in time.

At 9th level, I would take CC and Timestop before any of the others. Gate would be last on the list. Setting up CC with 3X Horrid Wilting to go on "See opponent" and then firing another first round CC with your last 2 ADH + Chain Lightening (the CC firing doesn't count as your round's action) is far more effective than Gating in a demon (unless something has souped up the demons, I'm used to vanilla Gate). Besides after CC, Timestop, Summon Planetar, and Imp Ala, or the occasional wish rest there's not much else level 9 you're going to do that is as effective as all of that.

It been a long time since I played Ascension so if the Gate is part of the end battle, just let me know.

Also at level 6, between your Mirror image, stoneskin, and being surrounded by a party, when my Sorc is in a full party, i usually push PfMW more like 3rd or 4th pick and found I get more bang for my buck with Imp Haste (assuming at least 2 warrior types, which you have) as my first or second lvl 6 pick.

at 4th level, what are you using the minor sequencer for? I know as a solo i tend to think I'll use it as an "oh crap" button and put Mirror Image and Invisibility or something like that in it (but never end up using it). In a party I load it with 2 x Magic Missle to blow through an enemy mirror image, but at that point i usually don't need it and have done something more effective. So for me, whenever I've picked it, I've usually never needed/used it much, so i stopped picking it and take Emotion or something like that.

You are overlooking that my Sorcerer cannot get Planetar thanks to Refinement he got a completely reworked list of HLAs. That is why I want Gate to have a good high level summon.
Instead of Imp. Alacrity he will get Aura Cleansing wich does something similar but it is a special ability and won't use a 9th level slot. Same goes for all HLAs of a Sorc albeit some like Shockwave will eat up spells per day.

Minor Sequencer is generally loaded with either 2 Melfs or 2 Magic Missles. Bear in mind that it can be shoot after a MM so with it you can get out 15 Magic Missles in one round. One Magic Missle will deal 17.5 damage on average so all 3 together will deal 52.5 damage on average. That is not to be underestimated I'd say.

SCSII improved demons quite a lot actually.