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It's time for me to buy an RPG. It's a darn shame that there aren't many good RPG's out there, and that the industry is being polluted with turn-based crap.

Anyway, my interest drew me to Gothic, specifically Gothic 2. Not 3, that game runs unbelievably bad on my system, so that one is not an option.

Most games that I have are first person shooters. It's one of the few genres that offers complete control, which is why I like it. Gothic is one of those extremely rare RPG's that supports a first person camera. Sadly I found that while trying the demo of Gothic 2, it switches to third-person mode when drawing a weapon. Although through a console command it should be possible to force it to first person, even while using weapons, apparently. I've read how to do this somewhere on a forum, but my attempts to get it to work have failed. I couldn't get the console to appear, maybe a technical issue with the demo...

That's one of the things I would like to know- has anyone been able to get it into first person mode while using weapons?

Something else I'd like to know about Gothic and Gothic 2 is, how is it like to use magic? How does that work? Maybe I can obtain a spell in the demo, but I'd rather not explore and do quests already, I don't want to spoil anything yet.
Magic is one of those things that I always have found rather likable in about any game. For example, in Undying and Morrowind I had great fun using the various magic spells, but those games use the control mechanism of first person shooters. Is it easy to use spells in Gothic, such that you only have to select a spell to throw a magic projectile with the touch of a predefined button?

I already learned that the controls in Gothic aren't exactly conventional, so that's why I'm asking. Who knows what you have to do to make the magic appear. Better yet: does Gothic even allow you to shoot a magic projectile like you would in a first person shooter?

I'd like to ask the same question in regard to bows and crossbows. I expect that to work like you play a first person shooter as well, but I'd like to know if I might be wrong about that.

I found that the game is not that well designed in the technical department. When using the first person camera, and walking into objects and walls the camera rotates automatically for some reason. Hopefully that's not a testament to the rest of the games' functionality, but from what I've read, it is to certain extends. But maybe this is a bug that has been fixed in one of the patches. (I certainty hope so, that is)

Using weapons to attack works a little differently than what I'm used to, but I suppose I could get used to it.

What I find rather annoying, is that the character moves very clunky. It's like the character has broken legs. Rather than smoothly moving around, slowing down and moving faster is like tripping over a stone that obstructs your path. This is visible when using the first person camera, but noticeable no matter what camera you use. It's very clumsy, as it impairs your mobility. Another strange thing is that the mouse's sensitivity is vertically noticeably higher than horizontally. Really... what is up with that? That needs to be fixed, either with a patch or .ini configuration.

Hopefully most of my questions can be answered. I do think I would like Gothic a lot, but I would really like to be able to use magic and do combat in first person.

And one final question: is it possible to make a crosshair appear? I find it rather clumsy to miss one, just for the fact that it makes it inconvenient to pick up items.

There is no way to keep it in 1st person in Gothic. The Game was designed to be in 3rd person. As for cross-hairs, I don't not remember it's been a long time.

BTW if you meet Marvin. Just kill him or you might just kill your self.

It is possible, and I don't know what Marvin you're talking about.

You will meet him in Gothic 1.

I think I remember now.

As I recall, it is possible to remain in first person mode at all time with help of a cheat. Problem is, I can't get the console to appear.

Apparently, you are supposed to press C, which brings up the character statistics, then you must type marvin, then press C again, and then finally press F2. This should open the console. Thing is, it doesn't. When I press C, I get to see the character stats menu, but when I type marvin I don't see anything happening. When I press C again, the menu disappears. Then when I finally press F2, once again nothing happens.

What am I doing wrong? Is it not possible to bring up the console in the demo of Gothic 2?

Alright, forget about all my previous questions, all I want to know right now is why I cannot access the console? Is that a function that's only available in the full game? I tried the Gothic 2 demo, but I can't get it to appear.

Help?

Why would you want a crosshair when you can shoot the enemy by targeting them? Magic works the same way, you active a rune and use it like a ranged weapon.

I managed to find a fireball scroll, but this is where I had expected a crosshair to appear. Without one, I'm aiming blindly.

What is this targeting system you're talking about? What are runes?

If you play as a Paladin they use runes to create magic.

The computer picks the target based where your are looking at.

TurdSquasher wrote:I managed to find a fireball scroll, but this is where I had expected a crosshair to appear. Without one, I'm aiming blindly.

What is this targeting system you're talking about? What are runes?

Scrolls are spells that you can cast once, then the scroll is consumed. If you become a mage, you can equip a rune to cast spells.

When you have a ranged weapon equipped and look at an enemy, you'll see the enemy's name appear. This mean you're targeting this enemy and you can fire.

I see. So I wasn't wrong when I thought that you aim blind for the most part. It may be interesting for some, but it's highly inconvenient, and doubtfully any fun.

Why would you want a crosshair when you can shoot the enemy by targeting them?

This is quite a dumb question. With a crosshair you always know exactly what you're aiming at, but Gothic's targeting system only lets you know that you have your invisible crosshair on the enemy, and even then you don't exactly know where you will hit your foe.

It also reveals that most of the game's difficulty comes from the badly designed controls and interface. I can't say I like that.

I find the controls to be the best for a RPG. Just have to learn. Also note this is a European RPG. Controls are much different than American/Canadian RPGs. Europeans don't like to use mice a lot.

Yes, you have bad judgment. This control system is horrid, especially for an action oriented RPG. But spare me the lies. You can't proof that European people prefer to play without a mouse.

From what I noticed from European games I played. European RPGS tend to use the keyboard than mouse.

Heck in Arx Fatalis the mouse was mainly used for attack, draw spell, and look. I don't remember in the menu system that I had to use a mouse. Heck in Gothic there is no mouse use for the menu and inventory system.

Once again you show how little you know. Arx Fatalis relies heavily on the mouse, also in the menus, and unlike Gothic, it's a properly designed game.

TurdSquasher wrote:Once again you show how little you know. Arx Fatalis relies heavily on the mouse, also in the menus, and unlike Gothic, it's a properly designed game.

I will still take Gothic I & II over Arx Fatalis for game play.

I am the Doctor wrote:I find the controls to be the best for a RPG. Just have to learn. Also note this is a European RPG. Controls are much different than American/Canadian RPGs. Europeans don't like to use mice a lot.

I don't see how holding Ctrl plus the arrow keys is considered a good combat mechanic. Found it clunky, to be honest, and pretty reminiscent of Time Commando (1995). At least the latter is a side-scrolling adventure game, so it is tolerable.

I find it annoying to be forced to use just keyboard. A properly designed game with proper interface, most action can be performed by both keyboard and mouse, not just one. But I prefer to use mouse though, so being forced to use keyboard would suck. This is a problem in Arcanum where certain actions can only be performed using keyboard. Keyboards should be shortcuts and hotkeys only. It shouldn't be the only way.

Anyways, is Gothic worth playing if I hated Morrowind? I have seen Gothic 3 Gold Edition box at bargain price at local department store. Not sure if I should get it.

I have Arx Fatalis but it gives me motion sickness, I can't play it.

I am the Doctor wrote:If you play as a Paladin they use runes to create magic.

The computer picks the target based where your are looking at.

I also think so.

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doady wrote:This is a problem in Arcanum where certain actions can only be performed using keyboard. Keyboards should be shortcuts and hotkeys only. It shouldn't be the only way.

In this day and age, I agree, but you have to understand that there are a lot of older games (especially those in the 90s and before) that rely only on the keyboard because of technological limitations, not because of incompetence or laziness. Doom is one example where it uses only the keyboard and relies on some form of auto-targeting when it comes to enemies one floor above you.

doady wrote:Anyways, is Gothic worth playing if I hated Morrowind? I have seen Gothic 3 Gold Edition box at bargain price at local department store. Not sure if I should get it.

You can try out the demo or borrow a copy from a friend (or play it at a friend's house) first before buying it. Personally, I'd go for the latter as there are community patches that resolved a lot of the bugs that plagued the game during launch by a lot.

As for combat is more streamlined compared to the previous Gothic games and have mouse support, that I can admit, but it is still wonky and relies more on trial-and-error than effort.