It seems to me that appropriate monster levels are really easy. A 1st level party of 4 can take out a Troglodyte or two orcs with pathetic ease. When I had parties of 2 or 3, I didn't even have to modify the monsters much.
Can anyone tell me why Cr's are typically easy for a 4 person party?
Question about Monster CR's
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Steelcecil
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Siberys
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It's actually Encounter Levels that are based on what level and quantity your party members are at.
Challenge Rating is more like a one on one thing, but not always (as many enemy strengths vary and CR's aren't always accurate).
For example, if you have a creature that is CR 2 and a party member that is level 2, it's generally an equal challenge against that party member, be they a wizard or a fighter.
However, as monsters get more complex, CR loses it's meaning. Despite the CR of say a dragon being 15 or something, it would still take at least 4 people of 15th level or higher to bring the bastard down, as dragons are complex and versatile challenges, but a Single 15th level cleric would probably be an equal challenge to a Mummy Lord (CR 15) and a 15th level fighter might be equal to a Marut Inevitable.
Then you have monsters like the Dire Shark, who is FAR more powerful than it's CR indicates due to the ability Swallow whole.
So basically, for the first five levels of your characters in the game, it's good to go by CR, but after that you definitely want to judge abilities, strengths and weaknesses before sending something up against your characters. No 20th level lone fighter can take on a Balor, that's simply not feasible.
Challenge Rating is more like a one on one thing, but not always (as many enemy strengths vary and CR's aren't always accurate).
For example, if you have a creature that is CR 2 and a party member that is level 2, it's generally an equal challenge against that party member, be they a wizard or a fighter.
However, as monsters get more complex, CR loses it's meaning. Despite the CR of say a dragon being 15 or something, it would still take at least 4 people of 15th level or higher to bring the bastard down, as dragons are complex and versatile challenges, but a Single 15th level cleric would probably be an equal challenge to a Mummy Lord (CR 15) and a 15th level fighter might be equal to a Marut Inevitable.
Then you have monsters like the Dire Shark, who is FAR more powerful than it's CR indicates due to the ability Swallow whole.
So basically, for the first five levels of your characters in the game, it's good to go by CR, but after that you definitely want to judge abilities, strengths and weaknesses before sending something up against your characters. No 20th level lone fighter can take on a Balor, that's simply not feasible.
Listen up maggots, Mr. Popo's 'bout to teach you the pecking order.
It goes you, the dirt, the worms inside of the dirt, Popo's stool, Kami, then Popo.
~Mr. Popo, Dragonball Z Abridged
It goes you, the dirt, the worms inside of the dirt, Popo's stool, Kami, then Popo.
~Mr. Popo, Dragonball Z Abridged
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Steelcecil
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Thanks for the knowledge. You're right about the shark. How could a huge CR 4 shark be beaten by a fourth level party? Better hope you can fight underwater pretty well! 
Next, I know about EL, but I didn't know it was that necessary for higher levels.
What I still wonder, though, is if most DM's use higher EL's (or CR's) for monsters than the books suggest for an average encounter? I would think a level 1 party could take down an EL a couple higher than theirs without death but the book suggests otherwise.
Next, I know about EL, but I didn't know it was that necessary for higher levels.
What I still wonder, though, is if most DM's use higher EL's (or CR's) for monsters than the books suggest for an average encounter? I would think a level 1 party could take down an EL a couple higher than theirs without death but the book suggests otherwise.
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Siberys
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Actually I meant the dire shark which is CR 9 and should be CR 11-13.Thanks for the knowledge. You're right about the shark. How could a huge CR 4 shark be beaten by a fourth level party? Better hope you can fight underwater pretty well!
No, it's not a matter of being necessary for higher levels. EL is necessary at all times, it's for quantity battles (multiple enemies with potentially different CR's against the players).Next, I know about EL, but I didn't know it was that necessary for higher levels.
CR is what becomes unnecessary after a while.
Basically from levels 1 to 5, CR's of 1 to 5 are supposed to be the cannon fodder to the party basically. A group of level 1 heroes can easily take down one single CR 1 monster, it's designed to be that way (even though it doesn't always work that way). It's when you have the level 1 heroes against a half dozen goblins and a goblin sorcerer that really skews things.What I still wonder, though, is if most DM's use higher EL's (or CR's) for monsters than the books suggest for an average encounter? I would think a level 1 party could take down an EL a couple higher than theirs without death but the book suggests otherwise.
I would say the party could probably take on a single CR 2 monster, and it'd be fairly difficult to take on a CR 3 or 4 monster. Depends on what the party is, how experienced the players are, and of course, the luck of the die rolls.
Listen up maggots, Mr. Popo's 'bout to teach you the pecking order.
It goes you, the dirt, the worms inside of the dirt, Popo's stool, Kami, then Popo.
~Mr. Popo, Dragonball Z Abridged
It goes you, the dirt, the worms inside of the dirt, Popo's stool, Kami, then Popo.
~Mr. Popo, Dragonball Z Abridged
A CR/EL of the same level as the party should in theory consume 20% of the party resources for that day. (Spells, daily uses, HPs,...)
Low lvl ELs can be whacky too, as in one critical on the monster's part is often enough to kill a character, which is really a big drain at lower lvls.
Also, monsters that have Spells/Spell-like abilities are generally tougher for their CR than simple "beat-stick" monsters, because they have more options.
With my players, who are very experienced with the system, I generally field EL +2 against them, and maximise the HP. This keeps them on their toes, and they have to spend resources to win, but as long as they keep their wits, they aren't in any real danger. Boss encounters are something else entirely.
Low lvl ELs can be whacky too, as in one critical on the monster's part is often enough to kill a character, which is really a big drain at lower lvls.
Also, monsters that have Spells/Spell-like abilities are generally tougher for their CR than simple "beat-stick" monsters, because they have more options.
With my players, who are very experienced with the system, I generally field EL +2 against them, and maximise the HP. This keeps them on their toes, and they have to spend resources to win, but as long as they keep their wits, they aren't in any real danger. Boss encounters are something else entirely.