A couple of beginner questions

Fakule · Post by **Fakule** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:16 pm

Hello. I've just started playing BG2, and I have few questions:

1) I've read that big party is not always advantage, and in first two rooms I already saw few examples of "artificial stupidity". I can imagine that full party is more dependant on management, but it should have more firepower. 5 or less has more levels, potentially less examples of artificial stupidity, and easier micromanagement. My current idea looks like:

PC (melee, buffs)
Jaheira (backup caster)
Aerie (primary healer/caster dps)
Imoen (rogue things/caster dps)
Anomen (melee, buffs)

Correct me if I chose for someone very sub-optimal role.

2) I read that Imoen will be busted as soon as I leave starting dungeon. If I make my No.1 priority getting her back, how long will it take, average? Should I find another rogue instead of her, if it will take long?

3) I am currently undecided what to make as PC. My idea is: "Warrior in plate, big two-hander, who can cast buff spells to boost himself". I've rounded it into:

Multiclass Fighter/Mage - fighting part looks decent and from what I've read, mages have best buffs, but split XP should make his leveling slower, and he can't cast while wearing armor.

Paladin - can cast without switching armor, should level faster, and, there is that thing called Carsomyr. I counted few disadvantages: I think my party has already enough priest spells (Aerie, Jaheira, Anomen), 4th cleric may be a bit overkill, imho mages have better buffing spells, and for RP reasons I will be forced into Shadowkeepering him into another race (I would rather not play human paladin, fighter/cleric is no-no for me, because of weapons restriction).

4) Can Paladin become "fallen" due to another reason than low reputation?

5) While fighting in melee combat you can safely cast only spells with cast time 1, I presume? Does armor make any difference?

Thanks for answers.

Ares2382 · Post by **Ares2382** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:32 pm

1) This game is not like the newer Bioware RPGs. Every party member here pretty much requires babysitting. So whether or not you want to have a full party is up to you.

2) A LONG time, and SPOLER highlight if you want to read [SPOILER]getting her back is part of the main quest[/SPOILER]

3) Carsomyr is great, but there are plenty of good weapons to get for a fighter. Also, Carsomyr is not that easy to get early on.

4) Not sure, maybe someone else can answer.

5) If you're fighting melee, the only 100% "safe" spell is an instant one. Since your spell casting can get interrupted when you get his, armor helps in the sense that you're less likely to get hit if you have good armor. But mages for the most part cannot cast spells in armor, only divine casters can (clerics, druids, rangers and paladins).

Devilock · Post by **Devilock** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 6:51 am

Crap, it looks like most of this thread was eaten during the server-move. Was there anything you'd like to address? :S

Fakule · Post by **Fakule** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 7:49 am

There were replies deleted after forum upgrade. Just consider questions in my first post answered. New ones:

- I noticed that mobs really like ganging up on Yoshimo, who takes tough beating in almost every fight (I should get him plate

). Is there some hidden threat&aggro system, or just bad luck?
- Last boss in De'Anise stronghold was... almost unwinnable. It took me about dozen tries. Honestly, I did not expect "piece of cake trash, impossible bossfight". Should I expect more of them?

Devilock · Post by **Devilock** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:31 am

Yoshimo is a thief, so he can't wear plate! There are some very nice leather armors for him, though. I don't know about a hidden agro system, I had the idea that monsters first attack whoever comes into sight first, and then maybe switch to whoever is attacking them? maybe other people know more about this, though.

A lot of the boss fights in this game are pretty tough (liches, dragons, high levels wizards etc.); in general you need to know what strategies, and what spells to use in certain situations. I think the leader in the De'Anise keep is a troll, you need to know how to deal with trolls. Amd so on.

Fakule · Post by **Fakule** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:55 am

I know about fire/acid agains Trolls, but when Torgal attacked my tank for 15% health each round, my party simply did not have enough heals to keep him up. I had to peel him from adds, and even then it was nasty fight.

I went through manual and written all AoE spell that don't cause friendly fire. Can you verify my list?
Mage: Horror, Hold (all types), Hopelessness, Greater Malison, Chain Lightning, Horrid Wilting
Priest: Chant, Call Lightning (outside only), Holy Smite (evil only), Cloak of Fear, False Dawn (undead only), Creeping Doom, Holy Word, Nature's Beauty (point blank)

Devilock · Post by **Devilock** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 9:22 am

What is your tank's armor class? Does he/she have any decent equipment?

As far as I can tell, the spells you list are indeed all party-friendly. Not all of them cause damage, however. Wail Of The Banshee is also party-friendly, but that's a lvl 9 mage spell.

Insect Plague is also party friendly, but it's Druid-only. Just as Call Lightning, Creeping Doom and Nature's Beauty.

You can find a lot of very useful info on any spell in this game right here:
http://www.sorcerers.net/Games/BG2/SpellsReference/Main.htm

Fakule · Post by **Fakule** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 9:44 am

He has -3 armor, and still got hit for 17-20 dmg. I think I was simply too low lvl.
Thanks for spell reference, I used manual and http://www.forgottenwars.com/oogi/index.htm
Both sometimes contradicts each other, but I will make something useful from them.

Stones · Post by **Stones** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 6:02 pm

Armourclass does not reduce damage, only how often they manage to hit you. Only resistances helps against the amount of damage recieved on each hit.

Having a tough fight with a fighter/close combat enemy can be handled with a bit of clever movement and use of the "aggro" system as you put it.
In the case of the nasty troll in the cellar, Torghal?, you can lure his guards away before you kill him, which you did. I can give you two tips on how you can do this fight and maybe others:

1. You have some room to get a good runaround. Meaning having him run after the person/tank or whomever you get the "aggro" on and let the others kill him with ranged attacks or spells. He's having a hard time hitting and running at the same time. And in my experience the AI often target the nearest or anything that hits back in melee. Keep in mind though, accidents do happen... don't underestimate the AI's programming or lack thereoff.

2. Chokepoint. This is my personal favourite as it gives more control over the situation and you get less random stuff happening. With this you can set your two tanks in the door. Making sure you keep the two off them covering half each, but still blocking it. Using this tactic you can remove the one getting hit when he/she gets hurt, but the enemy can't follow because of the other tank still blocking the door. You can then heal or potion up in peace while the enemy is forced to attack a fresh tank blocking the door.

Ode to a Grasshopper · Fri Jan 14, 2011 2:33 am

Fakule wrote:- I noticed that mobs really like ganging up on Yoshimo, who takes tough beating in almost every fight (I should get him plate ). Is there some hidden threat&aggro system, or just bad luck?
- Last boss in De'Anise stronghold was... almost unwinnable. It took me about dozen tries. Honestly, I did not expect "piece of cake trash, impossible bossfight". Should I expect more of them?

Enemy thieves will usually backstab the party member with the lowest health first, other than that it's mostly who's in closest. If you have any dedicated fighter types buff them up and send them in first, or better yet get enemies to come to you with ranged attacks, then have your big hitters smack them up, then send in Yoshimo to assist. Unless you dual-class him he's just a Thief after all, not a fighter - I've always found dualling him in Spellhold works quite well, you can get a heap of XP after you get Imoen back and by the time you get back to Athkatla his heart should be in it again.
You might have some trouble with the second part of the Haer'Dalis/Five Flagons quest, finishing the Planar Sphere, and the Windspear Hills, but as you get more powerful and get better gear it all gets easier, especially once you figure out the magic system.

Dunno if you got to read my reply to your latter post before it got lost, but as far as your weak mage damage goes, you're better off using summoning and disabling spells and having your fighters/summons mop up your confused/held/afraid/hopeless enemies than trying lots of direct damage spells. That said, Chromatic Orb is a better offensive spell than Magic Missile against regular grunts btw. Also, with the exception of Improved Haste your clerics really are the best buffers for the party, with druids as a second.
With Aerie and Jaheira you have enough divine casting power, party-wise you'd be better off with another fighter type (if you didn't go Paladin I'd suggest Keldorn) rather than Anomen (though his Turn Undead can be pretty useful what with levelling up in a single class). Caster-types (in your party Imoen and Aerie) should be kept out of melee combat and equipped with ranged weapons, though Jaheira is a great front-liner, especially once you get Stoneskin and Righteous Magic. Jaheira's single level 4 slot you were talking about is better spent on Call Nature's Servant, as the nymph it summons can cast multiple mass healing spells and a few Hold Persons to boot, and also makes a handily expendable meat shield once she's done healing you up and paralysing your foes.
As far as picking up Imoen goes, she'll be pretty far behind your other party members so it's a good idea to get her as soon as possible, save easy quests (i.e. fetch-the-item types) and quest rewards that deliver lots of XP and quest XP especially until after you have her back, and memorize spells after you get her (if you kick most of your party members besides your PC and her out, get them to 'wait here' for you and go on a memorizing spree it'll boost her up quicker thanks to not having to split the XP so much). You might want to get and save the Tuigan bow for her too, it's pretty much the best ranged weapon she can use and makes her an OK support character if you give her some decent arrows.

Fakule · Post by **Fakule** » Sat Jan 15, 2011 8:16 am

- I tried to erase spells from my casters by Shadowkeeper, but everytime I do this, their spells will "magically" reappear. Is there a way how to get rid of them (doom, cause wounds, deafness and more useless ones) permanently? I never use them, and they just occupy place in my spellbook.
- How high have Dragons immunity to magical weapons? I tried to tackle Shadow one, and my +2 weapons couldn't do any damage and spells were mostly resisted. What puzzles me, my characters didn't shout "weapon unusable" and my casters chained Breach, so I presume it was some innate ability.

Ode to a Grasshopper · Sat Jan 15, 2011 4:58 pm

Fakule wrote:- I tried to erase spells from my casters by Shadowkeeper, but everytime I do this, their spells will "magically" reappear. Is there a way how to get rid of them (doom, cause wounds, deafness and more useless ones) permanently? I never use them, and they just occupy place in my spellbook.

You can't erase Priest spells, only mage spells.

ziserman · Post by **ziserman** » Sat Jan 15, 2011 5:28 pm

I'm not sure whether dragons have innate resistance to weapons (such as liches who can get hit by +3 or better weapons only), but I do know they have very good AC class. They also have high saving throws. One of the spells you mentioned, doom, helps a lot in reducing both AC and saving throws if I recall. I wouldn't erase any spells by the way, eventually I get used to not using those I don't like

Oh, and about that boss in D' Arnise hold. From what I recall he regenerates FULLY every round. Therefore it's better to use healers as damagers, even a sling can make a difference in killing him. Healing spells are somewhat useless if he gets to near-death every round and he becomes uninjured again... but yeah, he's one of those bosses that are ultra-tough for low-levels. Took me about a dozen tries as well.

Stones · Post by **Stones** » Sun Jan 16, 2011 7:01 am

Dragons usually got the spell "Contingency" running. This spell triggers when certain conditions are met. They could be: "when the caster reaches 50% health cast improved invisibility on self" The conditions and spells cast can be modified by the caster.

I'm not absolutely sure about this, but I think the shadow dragon has one of these spells running. It triggers when he spots an enemy. This gives him at least stoneskin and probably some other spell as well. According to his level, which I don't know, attacks against him are absorbed and will not give the ineffective weapons comment. He will also recast stoneskin during battle.

Easiest fix for this is having your mages use "breach" a lvl 5 spell that dispels stoneskin in addition to lots of other spells. And it is only effective on one target so you won't dispel your own protection spells in the process.

Keep an eye on the combat log to see what he casts. In addition you can turn on combat rolls which will give you information if you actually hit and do no damage or if you are just missing.

Devilock · Post by **Devilock** » Mon Jan 17, 2011 2:36 am

Fakule wrote:- How high have Dragons immunity to magical weapons? I tried to tackle Shadow one, and my +2 weapons couldn't do any damage and spells were mostly resisted. What puzzles me, my characters didn't shout "weapon unusable" and my casters chained Breach, so I presume it was some innate ability.

The Shadow Dragon has an armor class of -12, as well as 60% magic resistance. So yes, he might be hard to take down.

(Breach doesn't lower resistance, it just removes protective spells. The lvl 5 mage spell Lower Resistance might be a good choice here (as well as Greater Malison, for those spells that require making a saving throw). I have no idea whether he is immune to certain wepaons (normal, +1, +2 etc.)

Fakule · Post by **Fakule** » Mon Jan 17, 2011 1:27 pm

- I think I've already completed "big chunk" of the game, but my characters are still very far from XP cap in SoA (currently L11-12). Does this mean that I still have even bigger part of game before me, or that 3 mil. XP cap is unobtainable, if you play with full party?
- Is it just me, or Robe of Vecna is "the" most overpowered item in the game? With above-average armor (for a robe) and making all spells with cast time <=4 instant, it seems like one and only armor for any pure or hybrid mage. Now it seems that rerolling Paladin was mistake. Currently, he has huge defense, great melee, but very bad casting (two L1 and one L2 slots don't fulfill my expectations, hell, even Mazzy can cast better).
- I ran into few problems with my Bag of Holding. First, even with tweakpack it has not unlimited capacity. Second, multiple bags share one item table. Great for "collective bag", bad if I need more carrying capacity. What happens if I use different type of bag than standard "bag04"?

Devilock · Post by **Devilock** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 1:51 am

- I think I also didn't hit the cap on my first playthrough, with a full party. I know you've been to the De'Arnise Keep and the Umar Hills, but have you been to the Windspear Hills, and Trademeet? Did you do a lot of sidequests like the Planar Sphere and the Haer'Dalis quest, and tough encounters like Kangaxx and the building in the Temple District?
- If you think the Robe of Vecna is overpowered, you can always chose not to use it, unless you run into a very hard fight.

Spellcasting for a paladin is just a very small added bonus, he is a melee character in the first place. Did you choose a kit, or a regular paladin?
- I know (or: read, I haven't experienced it myself) that the bag of Holding only gains unlimited capacity if you install the tweak BEFORE picking up the bag. Is this the case? Also, using scroll cases and gem bags really helps. And get rid of notes and keys from doors you've already opened, and so on. I know I didn't really have any serious inventory problems when I was playing with a full party!

Majorman · Post by **Majorman** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 2:51 am

The game consists of 7 chapters. Judging from your current level you should be in Chapter 2. So yeah, you've got plenty of work ahead of you. That XP cap is reachable (for the PC, at least) in my experience around chapter 6.

Well, paladins are not great casters. Check the manual - their spell progression is really slow and they never learn spells above level 4. With your party composition, though, you hardly need more spells, as Jaheira and Aerie can provide you with more than enough support, leaving the palladin to fend for himself - self buffing spells like Armor of Faith and Draw Upon Holy Might work wonders. In case you feel at any moment that your two current buffers do not provide sufficient arsenal of spell, then you might want to reconsider your battle strategy. In case you prefer spellcaster-heavy parties, then you might want to increase the number of mages instead of hiring another cleric or druid.

As for the bag of holding I cannot help you much. In case you are facing inventory space shortage you can always stash your items in a Stash in Athkatla - I personally prefer the Lion's head in the Promenade district and come back to get get them when needed.

Fakule · Post by **Fakule** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:10 am

- You hit a nail on a head - I installed tweak after I got bag. Is there a way how to fix it, other than using multible bags with different instances (from what I've learned, bag04 and bag31 are regular ones, other serve for import to ToB and are full of items)?

- I especially hate situation when I run into mage and discover I'm out of Swarm/Breach/Dispel. And because I don't want to sleep after every third fight, my mage's loadout is utility heavy. Both Aerie and Nalia have exactly 6 spells I regularly use: Breach (6x), Stoneskin (4x), Remove Magic (5x), Melf's Meteors (2x), Horror (5x), and mix of L1 nukes.
So when they can finally nuke, they don't have anything more powerful than Meteors, missiles and orbs.
Now, I would kill for anything that would give me more spell slots. For my second playthrough, I will definitely go for Fighter/Mage.

Devilock · Post by **Devilock** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 1:17 pm

- From what I've read, the Bag Of Holding won't become 'bottomless' until you've started a new game, unfortunately. Perhaps you could try to sell some old stuff?

- There are quite a few items that can give you extra spell slots! (Amulet, Rings, Ioun Stone). If enemy mages and their spell protections give you a hard time with their spell protections, you could pick up Keldorn (the Inquisitor) with his awesome dispelling powers. Or, you can try to enlist Edwin, who is without a doubt the most bad-ass spellcaster in this game, but he is evil and will probably try to pick a fight with about everyone in your party. :S If you have high charisma you might be able to pull it off, though!

Also, which areas of the game have you cleared already? Have you managed to find Imoen already?