GameBanshee Forums

I've done some extensive searching, but haven't found an answer to a couple of theoretical questions.

I'm running the following relevant mods for this discussion:
True Grandmastery
Multi Class Grandmastery
BGT
Sword Coast Stratagems 1 & 2 (things should be more difficult)
Rogue Rebalancing Mod (relevant, because of the Short Sword of Backstabbing, which grants Thieves x1 more backstab multiplier and can be upgraded to a +5 weapon)

I'm trying to build a versatile F/T, but getting stuck on a few parts.

Should I bother dual wielding?

Conveniently, Short Sword of Backstabbing + Kundane + Grandmastery = 5 attacks, which is... nice. 10 of course with Imp. Haste.

Now throw in the HLA Assassination and in theory, you have 10 attacks multiplied by x6, which is a truck load of damage. How much of it do you reckon is overkill? I mean, if I drop the Kundane, I get 6 attacks, multiplied by 6. Surely that will kill anything that is backstabable?

Now I know there are other benefits to having a naked 5 attacks per round, over 3, but given that as a Fighter I get GWW, it doesn't seem that enticing, other then convenience (and I suppose getting 5 attacks earlier). I am aware GWW doesn't stack with Assasination of course as well.

My pet peeve with dual wielding at the moment is not being able to equip a ranged weapon. Frankly, by the sound of the SCSII mod, there are certain enemies (e.g. undead) I am not going to want to go toe to toe with and having the option to go ranged seems like a pretty good idea.

Given I'm also running through BG1 as well, I'd like to Grandmaster in a ranged weapon, because it's just blatantly more effective then running around in those open often daylight areas trying to BS things.

I'm actually wondering if I should Grandmaster in Darts. They also easily achieve 10 attacks per round, and the Crimson Dart is a easy to get +3 ranged weapon that only gets stopped by Improved Mantle (afaik). I know the Tungen Bow can achieve the same, but +3 arrows are only available in TOB. Not sure how important this is, just on paper, being able to hit Wizards using Mantle seems like a good idea.

There is also the question of proficiencies, namely having enough to spread around. If I go the duel wield route, after GM'ing Short Sword and Two Weapon style, I won't be getting new prof points in a weapon until Fighter level 15, so Fighter level 18 until I can even go specialized in a second weapon.

Anyway, given all of the above, I'm now questioning whether I should even GM in Short Swords at all, and GM in Staves instead. I know Staff of the Ram is the best backstab weapon you can get, and the idea of GWW or Assasination with this Weapon seems versatile.

I could then GM in Darts at level 3, and progressively raise Staves to a usable point at level 6 or 9 (for backstabbing at least, given for that purpose, until assasination, I only need 1 attack per round) and continue through, ending with Two Handed Weapon Style.

Question about the Staff of Ram though. Will its special ability screw up Assasination attempts? E.g. if I load up 6 attacks and swing, will the knockback potentially make attacks whiff?

That might rule out Staff of the Ram then, and I may just GM Short Swords and Single/Shield Style for the extra AC.

Anyone?

Any option will work, it's just a matter of style which you choose. Take what you like the most, it's not that important whether the game is 1 or 2 percent more or less challenging.

kmonster wrote:Any option will work, it's just a matter of style which you choose. Take what you like the most, it's not that important whether the game is 1 or 2 percent more or less challenging.

That's not what my question is about really, it's the opposite actually. I mean to say, I'm not overly concerned eaking out an extra 1 or 2 percent, but part of my fun is 'optimising things' in the sense that, if backstabable monsters only ever need 250 damage to be killed, other then showing off, anything above that is basically moot. I know that's probably hard to give a solid answer too, but I'm asking anyway.

E.g. from a practical point of view, while Assasination + 10 attacks sounds awesome, if most enemies will die after 5 strikes, it's sort of pointless...

Ditto with Staff of the Ram, and say 6 attacks.

I mean, assuming no enemy resistances and ignoring outside modifiers (because I don't know how it all works together to be honest), 10 attacks with the Sword of Backstabbing +5 is in theory max 660 damage, correct?

6 attacks with the Staff of the Ram is max 540.

I guess I answer my own question, and both are probably totally overkill.

The question about the knockback is pretty important to me as well. I mean assuming 6 Assasination attacks isn't overkill, if the Staff itself is going to trigger its ability and as a result whiff a bunch of back stab attacks, i'll skip it, this question also applies to GWW.

In fact one thing I hadn't considered for some reason, is while annoying, I can always swap weapons out of combat based on situations. So I could still use a ranged weapon when appropriate, and dual wield if I wanted...

If an enemy is knocked back with staff of ram, you will no longer be in range, and if memory serves - and your games has all patches - your attacks will be wasted until you are in range again.

Stworca wrote:If an enemy is knocked back with staff of ram, you will no longer be in range, and if memory serves - and your games has all patches - your attacks will be wasted until you are in range again.

Thank you!

I second the fact that for melee-based attacks, the Staff of the Ram usually hinders me more than helps.

If you're dual wielding, you can have the enhanced SSoB in your offhand and get the extra +1 backstab multiplier on your main hand (it's a game engine bug, same thing as equipping equalizer in your off hand will give the damage bonus on your main weapon, or if you have kundane/belm off hand and cast Melf Minute Meteors your APR will wrap around from 5 and go to 1). Then you can use a real main hand weapon.

The real problem with backstabs is that as you get into tougher enemies (late SOA and TOB), the ones you really want to backstab are either immune or see through invisibility/hide-in-shadows.

You also have the option to use other staves than the staff of ram. They have a high reach, damage everything and work perfectly together with bows.
In BG1 you can get a QS+1 in Bereghost from fighting Silke and buy a +3 one in Ulgoth's Beard.
In BG2 you can buy a +4 one from Ribald.

If you want ranged combat without ammo you also have the option to use the dwarven thrower, throwing axes or daggers (boomerang dagger can be pickpocket in Amn and firetooth can be bought in Usth Natha).

The most effective ranged weapon choice for your playthrough is long bows, even non-magical composite long bows offer a bonus to hit and damage and an extra attack per round from the beginning.

Another benefit of staves is that your F/T can use the Staff of the Magi to cheese invisibility and Dispel enemy buffs/protections.
You won't be able to backstab with it and it really is as cheesy as a triple-cheese-base, stuffed cheese crust, cheese pizza with extra cheese (don't eat these btw, your arteries will ache for days), but otherwise it's a thief's dream item.

Ode to a Grasshopper wrote:Another benefit of staves is that your F/T can use the Staff of the Magi to cheese invisibility and Dispel enemy buffs/protections.
You won't be able to backstab with it and it really is as cheesy as a triple-cheese-base, stuffed cheese crust, cheese pizza with extra cheese (don't eat these btw, your arteries will ache for days), but otherwise it's a thief's dream item.

SCSII has a a mod (which I've installed, because I agree with it) that removes the invisibility ability of Staff of the Magi. I do my best to avoid cheese as is, but ya I did think about that at first as well.