The ToB expansion is pretty dodgy in its design...

[ArmageddonUnlimited]

I say this with much disappointment as the bar set by BG & SOA was impressive to say the least heralding the first good CRPG which allowed you to play as you wanted for a change (Daggerfall kind of let you - but it was too randomly generated and thus quickly too predictable - IceWind Dale was tragically 'lead by the nose' despite being an otherwise high quality product, and Planescape was abyssmal in it's lack of options (and lack of integrity to D&D).

BG & SoA actually allowed any alignments to be played (which ToB does do) and allowed you to ignore the 'main' story for much of the game and wander around doing your own thign (much more so in BG - virtually non-existant in ToB). This kind of things also applies to stupid puzzle/riddle type obstacles which BG was thankfully the first CRPG ever to do properly. You could choose to try & solve the riddle/puzzle by talking to people, reading journals & otehrwise investigating, or you could just guess your way through them taking substantial damage in the process. Others were set so that you did not have to solve the puzzle in order to continue the game. However, ToB has ridiculously decided to go back some steps on this by making the assumption that everyone likes this kind of quasi-adventure-game thing. Especially the dope who wrote Watcher's Keep which wins as the most frustrating dungeon I've ever done only behind the random Daggerfall labyrinths. Level's 1 & 2 weren't too bad - 2 was a bit on the heavy side - but level 3 was insanely boring and very very painful. Level 4 was no better and where I quit Watcher's Keep due to sheer disgust at the idiocy and lameness of the design. You could also see the same writers hand in that stupid water-tunnel dungeon.

Add to these flaws the fact that ToB has much much further widened the gap between the computer game rules & the actual D&D rules and I find the whole thing to be a real tragedy & disappointment. Oh, especially in that ridiculous thing they dared to claim was a Deck of Many Things. Anyone else out there who is familiar with the actual D&D Deck of Many Things will also have found it a terrible disappointment. Particularly so because it was clearly an active decision not to make it work as it should (and it was certainly capable of being implemented properly) thus demonstrating that some new writers on board care very little for maintaining the otherwise excellent integrity established by the earlier designers of BG, & to a lesser extent SoA.

Well, that's my beef - any opinions?

[Bruce Lee]

Watcher's Keep made me feel like Indiana Jones. A bit out of place perhaps but the again this dungeon is optional and has nothing to do with the main storyline.

[Bloodstalker]

My only beef with the game was that it seemed the designers went a little gang happy. It seems since your party was so high level, they felt they needed to make up for it by making you fight tons of the same enemy at once. Kinda like, "oh, your too strong to find one fire giant a hassle, so instead of using higher level enemies, let's make you fight 50 fire giants."

Oh yeah, and cespanar not having a list infuriated me. I HATE sitting through his dialog over and over and over.....

But, That's my only complaints. I actually liked Watchers Keep, I like the little puzzle things as long as you don't have to complete it to advance the game. I never liked spending a lot of time in one spot because I have a brain freeze.

[Nightmare]

Hey, I like fighting armies...

ToB IMHO is a fitting end to the Baldur's Gate series. Sure, everyone tries to kill you (fixed with the Accession Mod), you are insanely powerful (+6 weapons!? Please ), and it's one big battle after another.

IMHO, Watcher's Keep was really good (the 4th level was boring, and the 3rd level took me a while to navigate, but it was overall well done).

Problem with Deck of Many Things? I'll go out on a limb and say that you didn't like the Wish spell either. You can't properly implement the Wish spell with the Infinity Engine, but I think they did a pretty good job.

But Cespanar should have a dialogue in which you told him to shut up. A list would have been good, too. But my beef is his voice. *shudders*

[Quitch]

Watchers Keep didn't do that much for me, except the Maze level. You were almost trapped in it, which was great! First place in ages where you actually had some element of danger!

I don't think you're being very practical in your wish for more freedom though. ToB is supposed to round off the story of the series in the space of an expansion. If you had the freedom granted by BG and BG2, then rather than occupying about 20-25 of the, approximately, 30 hours of play, the story would take up about 5.

I had a massive dose of freedom in SoA, ToB is supposed to be *part* of SoA, so just treat it like the Underdark. Some freedom, but a rather more enforced route than the outside.

I enjoyed ToB, a fitting end, except that Elminster voice. What were they thinking? Bring back the BG voice!

[ 12-06-2001: Message edited by: Quitch ]