Oblivion on sale

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Sun Dec 30, 2012 3:06 am

It's €6.24 for the game & all DLC on Steam. Is it worth that much? I tremendously enjoyed Morrowind, and Skyrim was good, although a far cry from the divine perfection touted in reviews.

Secondly, should I get it, are there mods which make the leveling less idiotic? Every thread about character creation advices to take the skills you will not use. I don't want to play so countner-intuitive.

Thanks in advance!

Darth Gavinius · Post by **Darth Gavinius** » Sun Dec 30, 2012 4:55 am

I'd say for its worth it for under 10 euros. Levelling in Oblivion is quicker than Morrowind and slower than Skyrim. If you have not played it I would recommend it and there are dozens of mods that improve immersion, add new quests, areas and companions. The main quest is rather dull and the oblivion gates can get old pretty fast - but you should be able to sink 60+ hours into it before you get bored. The Dark Brotherhood and Thieves Guild are definite highlights and Cyrodiil is a lush expanse for exploring. Only other point I'd make is that the game can be very unstable if playing under Vista - I've never tried it with windows 7.

galraen · Post by **galraen** » Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:14 am

[url='http://www.gamebanshee.com/forums/members/darth-gavinius.31246/']Darth Gavinius sums it up pretty well, the vast amount of 3rd party mods available make it a game worth playing. There are mods available that allow a different method of levelling, and mods that temper the ridiculous levelling system. There are many content mods too, more than a few have better quest lines than the original game. As it comes with all the DLC then it's definitely worth the outlay, for Shivering Isles alone.[/url]

The counter intuitive character build isn't actually necessary if you're building a straight mage, just remember to leave one willpower and one intelligence related skill (I'd recommend Alchemy) out of the majors. More difficult for straight fighters, but that can be handled if you diversify your weapons use to include weapons not in your majors, and leave armourer out of your majors.

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Sun Dec 30, 2012 6:52 am

I actually always play Fighter/Mages or Battle Mages/Spellswords. I think I'll get it then, and bug you about which leveling mods you'd suggest. I'm not too keen on content mods on a first time around.
Is there a graphical overhaul mod, like for Morrowind?

Tricky · Post by **Tricky** » Sun Dec 30, 2012 7:31 am

I think I have found myself the perfect €6.24 beverage coaster.

galraen · Post by **galraen** » Sun Dec 30, 2012 8:31 am

Tricky wrote:I think I have found myself the perfect €6.24 beverage coaster.

I noticed you were playing Never Winter Nights 2; but I thought that cost more than €6.24!

Tricky · Post by **Tricky** » Sun Dec 30, 2012 9:54 am

NWN2 is special, but I still rarely actually end up playing it. I may now, since it has been such a long while. I just have a fetish for thinking about character builds and how they might survive. Character customization is Oblivion's weak point, so I haven't done too much with that. It's too easy to come up with some kind of invulnerable character.

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:29 pm

Which skills (and mod?) would you recommend for a Spellsword-type of character in Oblivion? Invulnerability is not necessary, but good defense & offense are.
My guess is Magic oriented, Breton, with Blades, Block, Light Armour, Mysticism, Restoration, Alteration & Destruction.

Tricky · Post by **Tricky** » Sun Dec 30, 2012 3:30 pm

I can't really recommend anything specific as far as your skills go. But rest assured whatever you choose will usually work out. As you may know there are good reasons to make sure your main skills are not your major skills, so which are and which aren't your majors kind of becomes an afterthought. I choose majors based on how much I want to either delay or accelerate leveling. That's the short of it, and why I can't really give you any specific advice.

But as far as mods are concerned, the main thing to deal with is the ridiculous level scaling of loot and enemies. There are a few choices here, Oscuro's Oblivion Overhaul being the popular one. I prefer Fransesco's Levelled Creatures (it's contains a collection of other mods too, but at least you get to choose which ones you want) as it doesn't any too much unrelated fluff.

Other than that.. I use Fatigue Penalties (to stop me from running permanently), the Unofficial Oblivion Patch, Unlimited Death Reload Time (so you can see your body ragdoll and stuff after you die), Darker Nights (may be spelled as Darker N8), Deadlier Traps (they are laughably weak), Darkgreen Glass Armor (vanilla looks neon green compared to Morrowind - it might irk you too) and last but not least No Psychic Guards (returns the Superman ears guards have back to Superman).

These are my main mods and I don't feel more contributes to the game. I've left out any graphical mods - IMO these are highly subject to taste, especially since the majority of them are short of it.

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:23 pm

Ok, thanks. Blockings the level scaling should work.
Light or Heavy Armour?
Are there mods for the Speech/Mercantile mnigames? I heard a lot of bad stuff about those.

Tricky · Post by **Tricky** » Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:54 pm

GawainBS wrote:Ok, thanks. Blockings the level scaling should work.
Light or Heavy Armour?

The AC is capped and like with Morrowind, you can enchant even a set of clothing and jewelry to reach the same ceiling. However, the big difference with Morrowind is that at some point during the main campaign, especially at higher levels, you'll receive the best enchantments at no cost at all. Fishing for these special enchantments is easy and gets you better things than you could make yourself at the enchantment altar (which in itself is exclusive to the Mages Guild storyline, and not readily accessible).

But I digress. Early in the game, all basic armors do fine. Light or heavy both reduce spell effectiveness in the same manner (its get capped at 95% if you wear any). As a fighter you'll rely on Strength, so encumbrance shouldn't be an issue if you remember to empty your inventory when you are in a town. Light armor for fighters is for hoarders or thieves.

Are there mods for the Speech/Mercantile mnigames? I heard a lot of bad stuff about those.

Well there isn't a Mercantile minigame, but the Speech one can be avoided with a simple charm spell in all cases. It should also be noted that the minigame is never a required point in a dialogue tree, so if you are simply well liked enough, you can play the entire game without ever seeing it.

I'm not aware of any mods that change the minigame, but there probably are since it did bother a lot of players.

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:58 pm

Just to check if I get it right: Enchanting is (virtually) useless, as you get free access to stuff during the storyline?
I intend on joining Fighter & Mage Guild, perhaps the Thief Guild, but I'll probably not have the skills for it. Dark Brotherhood is out.
Does Oblivion's leveling also work (like Morrowind) with a stat modifier, based on which skills you increased? (i.e. to get a x5 multiplier in INT, get 10 levels in INT based skills.)

galraen · Post by **galraen** » Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:25 am

Does Oblivion's leveling also work (like Morrowind) with a stat modifier, based on which skills you increased? (i.e. to get a x5 multiplier in INT, get 10 levels in INT based skills

Yes

Enchantment isn't useless, far from it, especially if you use the Enchanting Skill mod. For example fire shield enhances not just fire resistance but also armour class, so getting max armour class and 100% fire resistance isn't too difficult; it'll be some time before you can gain that by finding items, if you ever do.

I also prefer Francesco's to OOO, some tough encounters come with that and the associated mods. However neither of them actually get rid of the level scaling but replace the vanilla scaling with their own, better in general, but not to everyone's taste.

Speach, as Tricky sort of touched on, can be a 'waste' major as you need never use it if you use charm spells.

galraen · Post by **galraen** » Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:27 am

PS getting the skills for the thieves guild isn't hard, you can boost stealth very easily, just follow the roaming patrols whilst in sneak mode will increase the skill pretty quickly for example.

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Tue Jan 01, 2013 4:18 am

Ok, thanks. Could you help then with finetuning the build then, please? I want it to feel "intuitive", i.e. Major skills being those that you actually use.
Blade, Block, Light Armour, Restoration, Destruction, Alteration and then I doubt between Mysticism & Illusion.
Magic-focus. (If that's still necessary in Oblivion.)
Breton tends to be a good race choice. You can't go wrong with the skill bonuses & 50% Magicka resistance, right?
I'm partially to the Lady sign, if only for the plain stat bonuses, so the amount spent micromanaging levelups is reduced. Or I pick the Mage sign.
Starting stats: END & INT.

EDIT: I read that Agility only influences ranged damage & fatigue and not dodge/hit. Is this correct?

Tricky · Post by **Tricky** » Tue Jan 01, 2013 4:39 am

I wasn't aware of an enchantment mod, but it sounds like a really good idea.

GawainBS wrote:Just to check if I get it right: Enchanting is (virtually) useless, as you get free access to stuff during the storyline?

I think you don't get access to *all* spell effects, but all the major ones are there.

I intend on joining Fighter & Mage Guild, perhaps the Thief Guild, but I'll probably not have the skills for it. Dark Brotherhood is out.

I felt that the DB, despite being what it is, had one of the more interestingly written story lines. It's definitely worth playing through at some point.

Does Oblivion's leveling also work (like Morrowind) with a stat modifier, based on which skills you increased? (i.e. to get a x5 multiplier in INT, get 10 levels in INT based skills.)

Yes, though in regard to Trainers, it cannot be as easily abused as in Morrowind. Well.. it can, but you have to go through more trouble. Trainers cannot upgrade more than 5 skill levels of any given skill per character level, even if you find another NPC that trains the same skill. So if you want a 5x multiplier for your strength, you need to train 5 skill increases at a Blade Trainer, travel, then train another 5 skill increases at a blunt trainer (or you can just level it yourself as a non-major skill). This is where leveling up becomes a bizarre form of ballet.

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Tue Jan 01, 2013 7:23 am

Thanks, but DB is out from an RP point of view.

Tricky · Post by **Tricky** » Tue Jan 01, 2013 7:46 am

GawainBS wrote:Ok, thanks. Could you help then with finetuning the build then, please? I want it to feel "intuitive", i.e. Major skills being those that you actually use.
Blade, Block, Light Armour, Restoration, Destruction, Alteration and then I doubt between Mysticism & Illusion.
Magic-focus. (If that's still necessary in Oblivion.)
Breton tends to be a good race choice. You can't go wrong with the skill bonuses & 50% Magicka resistance, right?
I'm partially to the Lady sign, if only for the plain stat bonuses, so the amount spent micromanaging levelups is reduced. Or I pick the Mage sign.
Starting stats: END & INT.

EDIT: I read that Agility only influences ranged damage & fatigue and not dodge/hit. Is this correct?

Sorry, I somehow missed this post in the aftermath of our new year's eve party. Happy new year by the way.

The trick is to have one major skill per attribute score. That way you have about 2 minor skills left for each attribute score to rapidly/cheaply increase the attribute with (before or after you've maxed out the designated major skill).

Tip: Endurance might be a priority, if you value lots of HP. So you can consider starting the game with practicing your blocking skill, while using another non-major skill to attack (so you don't level up before you get that 5x). Endurance points aren't gained retroactively when you level up, so you'll want to increase it as soon as you can.

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Tue Jan 01, 2013 1:29 pm

Yes, I realise the importance of END, that's why I'd pick it as a starting attribute & the Lady Sign.
What would you suggest as a skill setup then?
Can you clarify the use of Agility, please?

Tricky · Post by **Tricky** » Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:55 pm

As I've said before, no build is inherently wrong. Your choices only affect how fast you'll level up. Sometimes you'll want this, sometimes you won't. But okay, let's have a closer look anyway.

Strength looks fine. You use only one weapon skill and have the non-major skills to upgrade strength 'manually'. You should have no real need for trainers to max it.

I touched on endurance already, but I'll elaborate a bit more. After you've finished raising Block (ideally in combination with a non-major weapon skill), you are left with Armorer and Heavy Armor. Before you start spending your money on Armorer trainers, know that you'll find an abundance of repair tools in the game, before raising that skill even becomes a necessity. Save them, even though you're not an armorer, and use them once you are ready. It can save you hundreds of gold coins before you need to start paying trainers or shopkeepers (for more repair tools). Upgrade Heavy Armor only to further offset the costs of your Endurance +5's.

Speed is a skill that I.. entirely stopped using. Acrobatics and Athletics have their uses (though comparably fewer than in Morrowind), and I shouldn't have to elaborate on Light Armor. However at some point you'll find out that the normal walking speed turned as fast as regular running. You'll be constantly bumping into kitchen cabinets and stuff, sending all manner of kitchen appliances and foodstuffs flying across the room. If you feel as I do, remember that you never *have* to upgrade the attribute. Enchantment is always an option if you want to max your AC (but you don't *have* to do that either).

Agility increases your fatigue and decreases the chance of being staggered during combat. Very useful, even if you are a fighter. I would consider not making any of the Agility skills a major skill. The security minigame is easy even on the hardest levels, once you get the hang of it, and sneak won't help you much if your main mode of confrontation will be the flashing of swords and the flinging of spells. Keep them all as non-majors and slowly train/increase them all equally until you've maxed Agility.

Personality is kind of a wasteful attribute, but it has it's uses. Illusion can be a fun skill, if only because nobody gets a 'save' against your some of your illusion spell effects once you have reached Illusion level 100. Even if they have 50 character levels on you. If that's your game, then go for it and use the two other skills as non-majors to further upgrade the attribute score.

Intelligence is important for you, perhaps moreso than Willpower. You use magic, but not as often as a full Mage. Hence you can deal with slower magicka regen (fewer Willpower in favour of faster Intelligence levelling and more magicka). I would almost recommend taking another Intelligence skill as a major skill, so you'll have an easier time leveling up your Intelligence. Alchemy is the easiest skill in the game to upgrade in the game (just buy some ingredients or raid a few pantries), so that would be a good candidate. For the purpose of maxing out Intelligence, would I max Alchemy before putting any points in Conjuration at all. Conjuration doesn't really seem to fit your build anyway, RP wise. Mysticism has in my experience not that many practical uses, unless you really focus a character on the spells it has to offer. Perhaps it would be closer to your RP ideas than Conjuration.

You have all of the Willpower skills, meaning that, for a time, you will level rather fast. Of the three, Alteration will see the least use. I think you can safely leave it out in favor of another skill. Of course, you can still increase it as a non-major skill.

Well, I think you know the deal with Luck. Does a little bit of everything, has no supportive skills and concordantly increases at one point per level *if* you choose to increase it at all. Almost everyone will ignore it, but.. well, why not? It is perfectly possible to max your attributes if you only have two to tag per level up. Like I said at the beginning of this post - it only affects how fast you'll level up.

~

Bretons may be a bit game-breaky, for slightly less known reason. At some point in the OC, *if* your character level is 22 or higher, one of the people you have to kill drops a 'Mundane Ring' that gives you an additional magicka resistance of 50%. Effectively it means you'll be completely immune to magic. Fun for some, but essentially a game breaker, especially since you probably wouldn't have been looking for it. It is quite possible to finish the OC below level 22, levelling normally. However, if you choose to do another one or more of the faction quest lines first (or just spend a lot of time exploring), you will probably not.

I think in Oblivion, builds don't define the character. The way you play them does, which may very well be a strong argument to ignore most of my advice. It makes sense in the way that 'classic' metagaming has been something that Bethsoft tried to avoid more with each passing game.

The bottom line is that you get the most enjoyment out of the game by simply going out there that and hacking up some goblins. If you start to really get into the details of it, like you would with any D&D game, you'll find the game becoming much less appealing to play.