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Hey guys, new here sorry If I'm posting in the wrong place or something. I just had something on my mind for a while concerncing baldurs gate 2. Now it's well known BG2 rewards good players rather than the evil ones. Than as my main and favourite character is evil I hoenstly have no problem with that. I think that it should be difficult to be an evil player. However one thing bothers me. I should probably state now that I LOVE i mean LOVE two handed swords In any game when I play this character I have to have him weilding two handed swords. Not staffs, axes or warhammers but the lovely great sword. To get to the point it always bothered me that no evil oreinted two handed swords are made for BG2. Now I currently use Soul reaver (I initally played fighter but years down the line with added mods I now paly this char as a Blackguard) which is fine but it always bothered me that Carysomer is reserved for the Paladins. I wondered If anyone knew how to edit this weapon so it could be, i don't know maybe an evil counterpart. Maybe a quest to 'corrupt' the blade as such? Some of the stats could be changed to reflect the blades new nature perhaps? I suppose the min maxer in me is bothered by this knowing I can't have the best two hander in the game.

Anyway, thanks for listening just wondered if this was possible .

Next time be a paladin!

It bothers me more that a thief or a bard can use cheesy UAI to wield a sword that should at least injure them severely if they even touch it! Bioware did mess up with Carsomyr, there should be minimum charisma and wisdom requirements, and only Paladins should be able to use it.

Unfortunately Bioware also messed up the Silver sword, it should be 20% chance of death without a save, not 25% with a save at -2, but it's still a very good sword.

Soul Reaver has also been shorn of it's main threat, as it should drain levels but for some reason Bioware cheated and made the sword that the Demons use undroppable and give you a nerfed version!

If you use the Item Upgrade mod then Carsomyr can be converted to an evil weapon actually. Read through the pinned post on mods for a link.

galraen wrote:
It bothers me more that a thief or a bard can use cheesy UAI to wield a sword that should at least injure them severely if they even touch it!

For me - it bothers me that any class can't use a particular weapon. Rather it should all be relegated to the skill with which you can use the weapon in combination with certain *realistic* attributes required for wielding it.

A thief who is moderately strong should be able to wield a greatsword with at least some success.

On the other hand a thief wielding a greatsword should impose huge penalties on stealth, and at least some reduction to sneak attack dice when in use. On the other hand their should be an improvement in flanking.

More blame might be better directed to WotC.

Carsomyr is a Holy Avenger, a sword designed and made specifically for a Paladin, and imbued with the power of the relevant deity; i.e. a Lawful Good deity. The blade exists to smite chaos, evil and lawbreakers.

It's all part and parcel of a role-playing game, if you decide to play a thief, then that's what you are, not a crusader for justice. If you want to wield two-handed swords, be a fighter or fighter sub-class like a paladin or ranger.

In 'live' AD&D a thief could indeed wield a great sword, but without much success, it's not just about strength but also about skill developed through rigorous training, the same as any class of weapon. Certainly in a desperate situation, if the only weapon available is a great sword, then a character should be able to try and wield it. With the penalties involved you won't have much chance to do serious damage, but if I'm the DM you could at least try. If you were a chaotic evil thief trying to pick up a holy avenger though you'd better roll a high saving throw!

When it comes to CRPGs the system tends to become rather inflexible, it's the nature of the beat unfortunately.

galraen wrote:
It's all part and parcel of a role-playing game..

See, that's where UAI makes sense to me..

If there is some unnatural requirement for an item.. presumably magical/divine in nature, like class/alignment/etc.. Then a theif's UAI (at least considering the high level of the class), makes sense.

There should still be the various penalties I mentioned, but specifically in a role-playing context - a thief is going to use every "trick in the book" to survive/thrive.

IF that means wielding a sword where it's magical benefits out-weigh any detriments, then so be it. (..the magical sword should confer some benefit to skill, no? Presumably enough skill to at least use it with moderate success ..well, assuming it's behaving as if it is magical in the context of preferential use. With no UAI perhaps it's magically "dormant", or perhaps magical active - but in a negative fashion as you mentioned.)

Most of the time the thief should be using their more stereotypical weapon assortment because it actually performs better for that character, NOT because it's a stereotype. Anything beyond that is a fault of the game's design itself. It may be an "exploit", but ironically isn't that what a thief is all about?

There *should* be occasions where there is an advantage, but like-wise they should be the exception and not the rule.

If you play the game as a thief "thumping around" with something like Carsomyr for most of TOB because that's what works best under just about every condition - then that's the fault of the game designers.

galraen wrote:Next time be a paladin!

It bothers me more that a thief or a bard can use cheesy UAI to wield a sword that should at least injure them severely if they even touch it! Bioware did mess up with Carsomyr, there should be minimum charisma and wisdom requirements, and only Paladins should be able to use it.

Unfortunately Bioware also messed up the Silver sword, it should be 20% chance of death without a save, not 25% with a save at -2, but it's still a very good sword.

Soul Reaver has also been shorn of it's main threat, as it should drain levels but for some reason Bioware cheated and made the sword that the Demons use undroppable and give you a nerfed version!

If you use the Item Upgrade mod then Carsomyr can be converted to an evil weapon actually. Read through the pinned post on mods for a link.

I should have mentioned I really like to role play my characters so being a paladin doesn't suit me, but you said something about an evil version of Carsomyr existing? Iv'e never heard of this, is the mod simply called 'Item upgrades'?
Thanks for the reply btw !

galraen wrote:Next time be a paladin!

It bothers me more that a thief or a bard can use cheesy UAI to wield a sword that should at least injure them severely if they even touch it! Bioware did mess up with Carsomyr, there should be minimum charisma and wisdom requirements, and only Paladins should be able to use it.

Unfortunately Bioware also messed up the Silver sword, it should be 20% chance of death without a save, not 25% with a save at -2, but it's still a very good sword.

Soul Reaver has also been shorn of it's main threat, as it should drain levels but for some reason Bioware cheated and made the sword that the Demons use undroppable and give you a nerfed version!

If you use the Item Upgrade mod then Carsomyr can be converted to an evil weapon actually. Read through the pinned post on mods for a link.

Just downloaded and tested it this was exactly what I was looking for thank you so much Galrean! "the Soul reaver the unholy avenger was made under [players names] dark guide. Some of Caryosmrs divine essence was prevserved to create this monstrosity. Few who pick this blade up put it down again whilst living." This is exactly what I was looking for a dark counterpart to Carysormr which matched it in its lore and stats! You are a life saver, thanks a ton!

Well I guess we'll have to agree to disagree Scott; to me UAI is cheese that borders on an outright cheat. Which doesn't mean I don't use it, I never claimed to be honest!

Usually I use it to overcome what I consider to be unacceptable barriers, like the idiotic restrictions on what a cleric can use; so it's the detail really that we disagree with, and not by that much actually.

As I tried to imply, if it was a live p'n'p game and I was DMing then any character could try to use, or wear, any item, but they'd better be prepared for the consequences. The consequences in a campaign I ran for a evil PC touching Carsomyr, or any Holy Avenger, would be save or imprisonment/death/disintegration depending on whether they were Lawful/Neutral/Chaotic. If they save then they take minimum/average/maximum damage every round they hold the sword. Penalties for Neutrals would be less severe, probably save or take the damage. LG non-Paladins could wield it as a +5, NG +3, CG +1 but without the benefit of it's additional powers (no Dispel etc.).

Not hard at all to implement in a live game, but in a CRPG? Much, much harder. So I do have some sympathy with Bioware/Black Isle on this and other issues, but that doesn't stop me bitching about it!

galraen wrote: So I do have some sympathy with Bioware/Black Isle on this and other issues, but that doesn't stop me bitching about it!