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Dual-Class/Multi-Class

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2002 9:33 am
by Casius
Alright, in about 3 weeks, I've managed to learn everything there is about this game except one simple thing, that everyone seems to know except me.What exactly is Dual-Class and Multi-Class. Yes, I know basically what it is, but what are the pros and cons of each. If someone would be kind enough to explain this to me, or direct me to a tutorial on this...

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2002 10:02 am
by Stilgar
Multi-class:
- All races exept human can multiclass
- Only basic classes (fighter,thief etc.) (except gnome illusionist)
- Basicly you are to classes at the same time,(example: a thief/mage can cast spells, and has thiefing ability's)
- There is a small downside that is that you can only become a lower amount of level, cause of the ex cap. Adn that you're character counts as 2people when exp is distributed from kills (No quest exp.))

Dual-Class:
- Only humans can dual-class
- Can be done from kit to plain class (not kit->kit) (if i'm not mistaken)
- A level 5 human thief could choose to dual to mage, then he/she is a level 1 mage without thiefing skills, but as soon as their at level 6 they regain their thiefing ability's.

So basicly you switch class when you dual, and you're 2classes at the same time when you play multi-class
You have to deside for you'reself witch you like best, i know a lot of people luke dual-classing, me personnaly like multi-class or kit!

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2002 10:17 am
by Eerhardt
For a satisfactory answer, I'll split up your question into several other questions:
Who?
Only humans can dual-class, only non-humans can multiclass.
When?
You can chose to multiclass at character generation, when you chose a non-human character. Dualclassing can basically happen at any point in the game, when you're human.
Prerequisites?
For as far as I know, there aren't any prequisites for multiclassing, except for not being human. For dualclassing, you need to be human and at least level 2. Furthermore, you'll need to have 15 in your prime requisite for your first class and 17 in your prime requisite for your second class (or the other way round, I don't know). For example: to dualclass a human fighter into a mage, he'll need 15 Strength (prime requisite for fighter) and 17 Intelligence (prime requisite for mage). Another prequisite for dualclassing, is that the combination has to exist in multiclass form as well. For example: since there are multiclassed fighter/mages, you can dualclass your fighter into a mage.
Advantages
Multiclassed characters can combine more than 2 classes. Multiclassed characters can use the abilities of all their classes at the same time.
Dualclassed characters allow you to determine what level your second class can reach, taking the experience points cap into account. For example, if you dualclass your thief into a mage at a low level, your mage will be able to reach a much higher level than a multiclassed thief/mage, since dualclassed characters only gain experience points in their second class, while multiclassed characters distribute experience points among all of their classes.
Disadvantages
Multiclassed characters usually don't reach as high a level in their classes than their dualclassed counterparts.
Dualclassed characters lose the abilities of their first class, till they've reached one level higher than the one they had in their first class and don't advance any further in their first class.
Conclusion
If you want to have a character with as many different abilities as possible, go with multiclass. If you just want to combine a few characteristics from 2 classes, go with dualclass. The level on which to dualclass, usually depends on the first class'abilities and how long you can wait till you regain these abilities. For example, you may want to wait with dualclassing your thief into a mage until his backstab modifier is 4. You could also wait till it's 5, but then your mage would have to be at a higher level before you regain your backstab modifier and your mage won't advance as high, since some of the experience points went into the thief class.

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2002 11:16 am
by Pregethwr
if you have ToB installed then there is another factor.

multiclass characters can choose higher level abilities when their combined exp (from both classes) exceed the SoA exp cap. They can choose higher level abilities from both classes at anytime.

e.g. a multi fighter/mage levelling up as a mage can choose a greater whirlwind.

A dual class character can choose higher level abilities wither when the first class exceeds the SoA exp cap (i.e. before dualling) or after the second class exceed the SoA exp cap. At both times they can choose only from the active class.

e.g. a assassin/cleric would have to reach 3m in the assassin to get use any items and then would not be able to use it until practically at ToB exp cap

I think in SoA dualled are stronger, and for ultimate solo power they are probably (slightly) better. In ToB where the difference between level 20 and level 40 is not huge then multiclass is stronger.

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2002 11:21 am
by Casius
Thanks Guys. It's clear to me now.

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2002 11:51 am
by Phantom Lord
DC has two more advantages in case you start with a fighter (which is the usual thing to do).

1) You have an important advantage concerning HP, simply because you receive the full fighter HP, not the amount divided between the two classes. Eg a MC F/M would only get W10/2 HP + a part of the CON-bonus when leveling up as F and W4/2 + a part of the CON-bonus when leveling up as M.

2) You can achieve weapon mastery, which is barred to MC characters.

Btw, good moments to dual from fighter are at soon after reaching lvl 9 (final W10 for HP), lvl 13 (final 1/2 attack gained) or lvl 15 (another weapon point gained).

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2002 12:41 pm
by Coot
What bugs me very much about dual-classing is that you have to start at lvl 1 again with your new class. It takes a lot of time before the dual-classed pc (or npc) is at an acceptable level again.

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2002 1:01 pm
by fable
Originally posted by Coot
What bugs me very much about dual-classing is that you have to start at lvl 1 again with your new class. It takes a lot of time before the dual-classed pc (or npc) is at an acceptable level again.
Well, yes, but you regain levels very quickly. Not as easily as in BG1, I admit (since you could just take a walk in the wilderness to accomplish that), but with considerable ease.

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2002 4:30 pm
by Phantom Lord
Yeah, it's quite easy and the fun is much bigger because you've that goal that you play towards.

I remember dualing Sarevok only for the irony of making him wield the holy avenger ...

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2002 4:04 am
by lompo
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Stilgar
Multi-class:
. Adn that you're character counts as 2people when exp is distributed from kills (No quest exp.))

I think your character gets the exp of 1 person and then distributes it between the two classes anyway.

If I remember well prerequisites for dual classing are min. 17 in the prime stats of the class you want to dual to and I think 15 in the prime stats of your actual class.

Multiclass characters are very flexible and you have the different race adv., but in SoA they wan't reach high level (no first line warrior, no main mage) unless you remove exp. cap.. Probably is in ToB where they really shine (after lev. 20 I think the adv. of gaining level are reduced).
Dualclassing is more powergaming (think of pure mages/thief/clerics with hp of warriors and masteries), specially in SoA.
The moment when to dual: from a warrior do it at lev.9 (max hp and a new proficiency point gained), you will catch up with the new class very quickly (less than 200000 exp); dualling later (12-13 or 15) means that you will be waiting too long (for SoA).
Dualling from other classes depends on what abilities you want reach with the first class (thief skills, spell lev.), but if you want to be really effective in the first class you have to wait many lev., so I don't suggest it very much for SoA).
I hope it will help you.

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2002 10:24 am
by Coot
This forum really contributes to the fun I have with the BG series. Reading posts about different classes made me try out (and have a lot of fun with) classes I never thought I'd like.
And now I'm pretty much inclined to go ahead and do a dual-class game anyway. Who knows, I may be pleasantly surprised by this game AGAIN.

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2002 3:01 pm
by Littiz
You said it, Coot! :D

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2002 9:03 pm
by samcu
Dualing ustilizes the kit's variety, and the decision as to when to dual is a delicate process. However the rewards can be very satisfying! :D

Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2002 1:55 pm
by limorkil
In BG1 multi-class (MC) characters were far more powerful than single classes because the amount of experience needed for each progressive level roughly doubled (e.g. 1000, 2000, 4000, 8000 etc). What that meant was that you could get to be a level 8 fighter (assuming you had the BG1 expansion) or a MC level 7 fighter / level X mage, cleric or thief. Clearly, the MC lost out on very little and gained rather a lot. Dual class (DC) characters were about the same as MC, especially since BG1 did not feature kits.

If you bring your DC character from BG1 into BG2 then it looks pretty poor by comparison with a DC character than you start in BG2, simply because you dualed really early. MC characters, on the other hand, suffer no disadvantage. However, the experience curve levels out after level 10, meaning that each new level takes the same amount of exp as the last level. So what you end up with at the end of SOA is a level 12/12 or so MC as opposed to a level 20 single class or a level 19 DC. TOB made MC characters more viable for two reasons:
- After level 20 or so, most classes do not get much better
- High Level Abilities (HLAs) start to be received when your character reaches 3 million exp and MC characters can choose a HLA from either class each time they level up.

So, if you have TOB, then both MCs and DCs are viable. Personally I stuck to the MC F/T that I imported from BG1. I like the sound of greater whirlwind + assassinate. The main problem with MCs is that you miss out on the fun kits added in BG1. However, most of those kits do not give you a huge amount of interesting abilities. Most kits give you one ability, such as Kai, Berserk, Rage, Poison etc., and some bonuses. The bonuses are good, but they don't add much to the variety of the character. If I was going to play through BG2 with a character other than my F/T I would probably pick a class that had a lot of unique abilities, such as the monk.