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There is a story circulating today in the UK, a large amount students have been stopped from going to school due to a teachers strike. Look here

This strike is due to poor financial rewards, the part that interests me in this story is why these workers think they deserve any more money than they have at the moment? They apparently get payed fairly well, so what right have these teachers to ask for more money?

Another question is, how can this situation be rectified? Should the government pay more to teachers?

If the schools are closed - where are my kids?

Actually, I agree with their demands for more money. If you consider what they earn in relation to what police officers earn, it hardly compares...plus the police have free transport in London and subsidies towards housing. Nursing staff were arguing the very same point a couple of months ago when a payrise offered most an additional one pound a week.

Back in the nineties, the Government addressed the problem of not enough police in the capital by raising the starting salary, and increasing inner London weighting - they have yet to bring teaching and nursing up to speed....on their wages they find it difficult to afford to live in the South East. When I was in the civil service, my inner London weighting allowance amounted to 1800 a year. In no way did this cover the extra cost of living in the capital compared to anywhere else nationally - my travel was 1300 a year The police get this for free, and a much greater weighting allowance - and payments towards accommodation (this is actually a national perk, my dad was once in the police, and we were provided with paid accommodation - if you didn't take the house, you received an allowance)

I say give them their money...if we can fill the teaching and nursing vacancies in London, there will be less pressure on the NHS and Education services...in turn we would benefit.

I am lucky, my children go to a very good school with an extremely low turnover of staff. For some children, they are more used to a high turnover of supply teachers filling vacancies...

In my opininion, teachers should be up there with doctors, among the highest paid professionals in the world. They have such an important job: preparing our kids for life, and making sure they have the knowledge they need in the world. As a high paying job it would force more competition between teachers, and only the best would be looking after our children.

Making this happen, of course, is another story...

It all depends on what you want for YOUR future children Mr. Sleep. *shivers at the thought of little sleep's running around*

They are teaching and inspiring the minds of our most valuable assets...it is up to us to determine what that is worth...

So, yes, I think they should be paid much more.

My sister is a teacher and works 12 hour days consistently (any hours past 8 are not paid...), as well as taking a second job during the summer 'to make ends meet'. A person with their masters degree in Japanese should not HAVE to take a second job...but high school teachers are not adequately compensated at least here.

VIv

I disagree with this.

If need be I can educate my own children (to a high degree ). I cannot give them a heart operation.

Why then is a teacher any more important than my role? Someone on the radio this morning said they were a cancer researcher - why should teachers get more than them? No good being well educated if you die from cancer is it?

Remember too, this is about teacher's allowances in London. They already get a weighting for living in the capital and they went on strike because they wanted this increased by 30% but were only offered around 3.5%. Does that change anyone's outlook on the situation?

I'll be lucky if my pay rises by that this year - never mind the allowance. Why should London teachers get this??

I dont know the situation for teachers in England, but here in sweden they are paid a ridicuolus low amount for their efforts.

That said, a increased salary doesnt always have to reflect on quality.

Originally posted by Gruntboy
I disagree with this.

If need be I can educate my own children (to a high degree ). I cannot give them a heart operation.

Why then is a teacher any more important than my role? Someone on the radio this morning said they were a cancer researcher - why should teachers get more than them? No good being well educated if you die from cancer is it?

Remember too, this is about teacher's allowances in London. They already get a weighting for living in the capital and they went on strike because they wanted this increased by 30% but were only offered around 3.5%. Does that change anyone's outlook on the situation?

I'll be lucky if my pay rises by that this year - never mind the allowance. Why should London teachers get this??

I feel the teachers should not be the highest paid people. But if I was given A 3.5% raise I think I would have to quit my job.
I think the salary or living allowance need to reflect the times. Lets face it it is costing more and more to live now a days.

Originally posted by Dottie
I dont know the situation for teachers in England, but here in sweden they are paid a ridicuolus low amount for their efforts.

Said but true. Less known, perhaps, is that they belong to one of the professions with most work hours per week. Lots of younger teachers -still with the intention of doing their best possible despite the fact that they get no recourses- have suffered from burnouts and been forced to quit working or to find other professions.

Originally posted by The lovely Yshania
If the schools are closed - where are my kids?

Pulling the cats tail in the garden?

Actually, I agree with their demands for more money. If you consider what they earn in relation to what police officers earn, it hardly compares...plus the police have free transport in London and subsidies towards housing. Nursing staff were arguing the very same point a couple of months ago when a payrise offered most an additional one pound a week.

I am considering that it would be better if they were paid the same and housing and other benefits were made better, that would surely solve the problem?

@Bourdeauxxx Isn't that the role of the parents, not the teacher?

Originally posted by The lovely Viv
It all depends on what you want for YOUR future children Mr. Sleep. *shivers at the thought of little sleep's running around*

That is scary

Viv i can't really appreciate that until i have a family of my own, at which point i may have some idea of the burdens.

@Grunt, i can see your point, although why does so much money have to go to bosses who don't do anything but push paper....literally

@Dottie, very true, perhaps it hsould be performance pay?

If the schools were closed....then what the hell was I doing today?
damn....

anyway, as I know absolutely nothing about economics or salaries or anything like that at all....I will add a point in the other direction.

teachers should be the most important people in society, but are not. They are horribly underqualified for a job that I think (maybe just cos I am at school at the moment) is so important. Fact is though that teachers sometimes have to spend their time on riot policing courses etc. to survive in the horrid world of kids. However, I think, if the government put more money into teaching, this might happen:

Teaching higher paid> teachers are higher standard> world becomes more intelligent> children are actually tought, instead of anger-managed and 'dealt with'> Children enjoy school more> teachers enjoy school more> Teachers do not need such high pay in the first place.

hows about that?

Amen brother!

my mum was a teacher, and several of her friend still are, and i know from them that even primary school teachers are working ridiculous hours, are having to cope with some horrendous kids, and have disturbing amounts of unnecessary paperwork that only serves to discourage teachers from doing anything really imaginative, fun or practical with kids. the problems with the stress are huge, because parents are protective of their kids> government introduces more paperwork> good teachers are sacked for not doing intricate lesson plans.

pay 'em more or work 'em less

Originally posted by frogus

Teaching higher paid> teachers are higher standard> world becomes more intelligent> children are actually tought, instead of anger-managed and 'dealt with'> Children enjoy school more> teachers enjoy school more> Teachers do not need such high pay in the first place.

hows about that?

Actually I disagree If teaching started in the home the teachers would not have to put up with most of the crap they do today....teachers are supposed to be teachers - not psychologists Unfortunately, children are not as respectful these days...and for many reasons/trends this respect is not taught and enforced in many homes.....an inspired teacher inspires the child

actually an inspired teacher can only inspire the child after doing a lesson plan detailing the targets for the lesson and (literally) what you will be doing in each 5 minute section of the lesson, not to mention an in depth risk assessment.

Originally posted by Robnark

actually an inspired teacher can only inspire the child after doing a lesson plan detailing the targets for the lesson and (literally) what you will be doing in each 5 minute section of the lesson, not to mention an in depth risk assessment.

I will read this as you are not rolling your eyes at me An inspired teacher will have a challenge to inspire an unmotivated child...it is not just down to lesson plan, there are other considerations...such as attitude at home, pupil motivation, freedom for one on one contact...and freedom to discuss a subject widely, rather than expect the pupil to take as fact what is written on the board...Planning is essential - many in the UK roll their eyes considering a teacher has 16 weeks holiday a year...this is not the case. I am a Governor at my kids' school - and I see first hand the out of hours preparation that goes into their curriculum

Originally posted by Mr Sleep

@Bourdeauxxx Isn't that the role of the parents, not the teacher?

I agree that parents need to take on a lot (more) of the responsibility of teaching kids about the wide, wide world, but unless you are able to stay at home and do home-schooling with your child (which most of us are not), you are very dependent on teachers for the rest of it.

My school recently had a teacher strike and demand a raise in their pay. I can't say for other teachers, but the ones that I know of are really hard working, I think they should get more money for their effort. I've been volunterring to tutor little kids in their studies, and I know who frustrating it is to get a concept across or how frustrating it is to put up with bad behavior and not lose your temper. It's wonder that most teachers are still willing to teach. Of course, the situation is a little better at high school and even better at college. However, there are still some very annoying trouble-makers, and at this age, many students are extremely rebellious and have a lot of teen angst.

However, there are some teachers that are lazy, irresponsible, and totally worthless compared to the teachers that are hard-working and responsible for our future. The question is, how can you distinguish one teacher from another unless you know them personally? How does the government know whether their precious money will actually recompensate the hard-working teachers or will the money become just a free-ride for bad teachers? This to me, is the most troubling question. However, on a general level, I believe most teachers have a passion for what they do, and I believe that they will do whatever they can to help students like me. Therefore I believe there should be a raise for the underpaid teachers.

This one is close to my heart.

It would sound like I'm lifting my own chair if I said that teaching is the greatest of profession and teachers should be paid as much as doctors, lawyers, etc...

...but honestly this is a moral dilemma for us teachers when and if we go out on strike --- it is the children who suffer.

I would like to think that teachers need not be given salaries compared to other high-paid professionals. Rather, such compensations should be in the form of special privileges, like free/discounted housing, medical privileges, free education at the tertiary level for the children, etc.

The essence of a true teacher is for me, one who is not overly concerned about worldly wants. Like, I don't need a BMW to make me happy. In contrast highly paid professionals like lawyers could somehow justify the need to demand high fees since it comes with the stuff that need to be produced and rendered, for them to give efficient service. Ask McBane, he knows what I'm talking about.

Seeing the fruits of my labor through my students' and former students' successes gives a very heartwarming boost for us teachers.

As I said before I don't mind working my butt off at work. I chose this profession with all the nice things and crap that would go along with it --- however, I wish that the government or the school that I work for would TAKE CARE of my family, just the way I dedicate myself to my work and my students.

Maybe if such was the case then most of us would concentrate more in making very good lessons (aside of course of spending some quality time with our own family)

I know a lot of teachers who are very talented and with great potential yet somehow they CHOOSE to be mediocre... the reason? They only give as much as they are paid for. Sad but it does happen.

In closing (perhaps for the meantime), it takes more than just knowing the subject matter to be a good teacher --- it's how you effectively facilitate learning that is more important.

In our society today, people are not paid according to how important their jobs are for the benefit of the society, or how long the education is. I believe Germany is the country in Europe where education and salary have the highest correlation. Sweden is certainly a country were the correlation is low.

Teachers in general seems to be an underpaid group, like nurses. However, some of you compare teachers salaries to doctors, and I just like to add that doctors are underpaid as well in Sweden, as are psychologists and all professions in the health care area except for nurses. The nurses situation have improved greatly over the last years due to a good and efficient union that has negioated very hard.

In the UK, how much do the teachers earn compared to groups with similar education and demands?

Originally posted by Gruntboy
If need be I can educate my own children (to a high degree ). I cannot give them a heart operation.

Why then is a teacher any more important than my role? Someone on the radio this morning said they were a cancer researcher - why should teachers get more than them? No good being well educated if you die from cancer is it?

I think a teacher is more important in the teaching role than a parent, because teachers and school in general, are supposed to do much more than teach pure knowledge. A good teacher has pedogogic skills that are far better than normal "common sense" and a child should also learn work in groups, discuss with several people of different opinions, cooperate with others even if opinions differ, and most important of all - inspire children, make them want to learn and help them develop.

This might not be a problem for you personally Grunt, but many parents are affected by their own wishes and needs when they educate their children. They focus on their own needs and wishes instead of the childs, they want to push and influence the child in certain directions. Parental culture and socioeconomic background is still the strongest influence on childrens education choices and career choices, also in societies with free education. A vast majority of parents, 90% according to some studies, want their children to stay within the same socioeconomic class as they themselves belong to. This poses a problem for children who might be apt for, or want to, choose other paths than their parents. So I still teachers and the school is an important part of a child's individuation and development of independece from the parents, which in turn leads to less static classes in society.

Interesting, studies of medicine, psychology and dentist students in Sweden, have demonstrated that the most successful students are those who have the highest motivation, not the ones with the highest grades. Since most parents want their kids to have similar jobs as themselves, many parents who are doctors will try to influece their kids to become doctors too. If the kids only recieve home schooling, the child will have very little chance to resist such parental influence, and thus choose to study medicine because the parents wanted it. On the contrary, children who really wants to become doctors but come from homes with lower educational level, will have very little encouragement from parents, in most cases they will be stopped instead. Thus we risk to loose many highly motivated and potentially very good doctors. So teachers may have a major effect also on how good the cardiologist who is performing your kid's heart surgery is!

Regarding researchers and salary, there is this problem that research is very much viewed as a privilege, which is supposed to be pay in itself. Cancer is a highly destructive and painful disease, so is schizophrenia, something I work to find a cure for. Schizophrenia is classified by WHO as one of the world's 10 most destructive diseases. 1% of all people, in all cultures, have the disease. It is lifelong and there is no cure. The mortality is high, most die prematurely from suicide, accidents and diseases they get from a generally unhealthy living since they often can't take care of themselves. A majority of patients can never hold even a part time job or raise a family. And apart from all the suffering, imagine the cost for all the health care schizophrenic patients need. Life long medication, therapy of different kinds, many episodes of inpatient care at hospitals, etc.

Like I stated in another thread, after 7.5 years at uni, I earn as much as an underground ticket seller, less than a taxi driver. In long periods, I've worked as much as 80h/week. I would work just as much and earn the same if I was a cancer researcher, there's no difference. Saving future lives with reseach simply doesn't pay off, at least not in Sweden. I'm not complaing, I didn't choose this job for the money and I have a flat, food, clothes, a bike and I travel a bit. I just wanted to make a comparison and add to Grunties commets

@CE

Good points, though I was making socio-political comments, as opposed to particular issues of educating a child myself.

Underground drivers and policemen after 6 weeks of training earning more than me.