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Well I just finished ToB and decided to think over the series.

BGI-TSC: It had very few dungeons and absolutely no dragons and am I glad it didn't. Even if you did *every* single area, and BGI had far far more area and in some respects far more small aside quests than BGII, you could only get level seven and pretty much everybody else was sooooo much higher level than you that the over all game was much harder. I mean I still think Sarevok from BGI was the toughest boss in the entirity of the series. Even in ToB Sarevok is no laughing matter. I mean he clived through my entire party when an Alu-fiend dire charmed him. In sort BGI was hard but enjoyable. I know a lot of you have been complaining about BGII being a lot of hack and slash but BGI was more of a hack and slash but the lack of dungeons just made it seem otherwise. Only thing that really bugged me about BGI was the lack of NPC interaction. Of course that was a limitation of technology and of course the game was painfully linear. But again that was a limitation of technology.

BGII: Lots of dungeon and not to mention dragons. Overall a non-linear game. Far less world map areas then BGI not to mention far, far less NPCs you can take in your party but the NPCs that you can take in your party are very interesting and the quest you can do vary depending on who you do take, that's always good. The romance was nice a touch. Though I think a lot of us wanted more choices. Some of the background changes from BGI was confusing. Like Imoen's background no longer mentioned that she spent more time with Winthorp the Inn keep than Gorian and thus her less than serious outlook in life and I remember in the original BG biography of her it was mentioned she arrived after you in Candlekeep but in BGII it was implied that she arrived at about the same time as you but than *who* brought her. It wasn't Gorian, especially since she is also a Bhaalspawn, because Gorian could only save one Bhaalspawn, the PC. Of course the most important of my question WHY did they have to kill Ajantis? I mean couldn't they have made it that you can take Ajantis' body back to the most Radient Heart and get him raised or something? I mean I really liked the guy. Of course there is my usually complain about not having more NPC interaction and maybe the game would have appeared far less hack and slash if they put in some more towns where you can go just to do small quests. But I think the development team knew that most people really weren't interested in doing minor unimportant to the storyline quest. But overall a first rate game even with the small flaws.

ToB: Well it was most definetly not long enough. I mean I seriosly felt as if all I was doing was going from one dungeon to another and lets face it I was. The fights were very, very difficult and though that's not really a bad thing it did make me not want to play again anytime soon. Plus I am seriously displeased with Imoen's ending. It would not have taken the programmers long to make that Imoen too had two ending. The one that they gave for *spoiler*

if you choice to be a god but another for if you choice to stay. I mean through out the game she keeps telling you that she will follow you anywhere. Despite her alignment she is one of the people who will join you even if your rep is low given ofcourse its not 0, 1 or 2. On top of everything she also tells you she will follow you anywhere and lets face it she has. So I don't think she logically would leave the PC for long even though the PC might be married with kids. She would at least stay in the same city as the PC but the ending implied otherwise. Lastly I wish there was a romance for her. I don't know maybe after you go get her and have Valyger in your team she could start showing Valyger that magic is not always evil and that it doesn't take control of all people and something like that... I don't know. But still ToB was enjoyable in its own way and overall the BG series is the best series I have ever played. Two big thumbs up.

Very insightful look into the games... You obviously thought a lot about it...

ToB is a worthy end of the series, but it is very, very rushed, and you are way, way too powerful.

Lets face it,evnen if you couldn't take your lady love with you when you reaach godhood, you'd take no matter what you had to trade or quest for from Mask your sister. Thats rather good for a tob expansion, quests and possibly war in the realm of the gods to get Imoen and your romantic interest at your side.

Imagine doing questd for mask, godess of thieves, the gnomish god, shar or lolith, and helm!

Speaking of the speed of ToB, I find that I level up like every 3 seconds! If I spend a little more time battling Sendai's deroo (sp?) slaves, then I could have leveled up each of my 6 chars numerous times! Not to mention getting xxxxx XP per character for doing all kinds of things, instead of like 10000 for the party like in BG1.
However, I think that ToB is a good ending to the series (though I actually don't want the series to end, seeing that it is tons of fun, and a great game), as it ties up many loose ends, as well as revisiting things (the Pantaloons, the Spectator Beholder, Viekang, etc) which bring more humour into the game.

Yes, I realize that I went completely off-topic. Sorry.

Very insightful summary, Trunks.

I noticed that BG2 tended to throw more and more XP at you as you advanced the story line, by the time you got ToB it was like you being given XP by the ton!

I did find two ways in BG1 to level up to max XP; first - a small party works great. I ran my character, a fighter/thief, Jaheira, Imoen and Khalid and was Maxed out just after the catacombs. This was in large part due to my second thing, which was to go to the Siren cave and sleep a lot - which spawns flesh golems (2000 XP each) 1 at a time.

In ToB I got to the point where I was like '100,000 XP - that's /it/?'.

ToB was definitely too small, in fact I think that SoA could have benefitted rather nicely from some more wilderness areas to explore, definitely not as many as in BG1, but more all the same.

Just my $0.02 on the topic.

I think the biggest reason everyone thinks ToB is to short is becasue they wanted it to be longer. I found that they tied up loose ends in the right amount of time. I wish the game was longer, but I didn't think the story was rushed. After all, a ball is traveling the fastest towards the bottom of a hill. Meaning ToB was nothing more then the Climax of the series. Everything in the series had been deveopled nice and slow. Rarly in action or adventure books, games, etc... does the climax move slowly. I fondly remember back to the days of when I first played BG. Then when I got BG2 I was so excited. I look back over the last 9 months I've been playing it and think it was the second best game I've ever palyed independent of platform. At times, especially towards the end I felt I was watching a move unfold. A movie in which I was the director and the star. I guess thats kinda the point of RPG. To mimic that on a CRPG is a credit to the story writers and game designers. Sometimes when I watch the Star Wars trilogy I think it was to short. But it really wasn't. I got so wrapped up in the story and characters I didn't want it to end. I guess what they say is true. Best to leave while on top and the audience thirsting for more, then to overstay and fade away and be forgotten.

Good points Armageddon and TrollSlayer.

I /still/ hoped it would be longer. I guess it would be a futile hope to see a free expansion like they did for IWD:HoW, mm?

Oh well.

C'est la vie, que sera sera, that's just the way it is.

Very intersting observation

Sorry for the cold pragmatism, of my analise. It's because I'm lazy and my dialetical instruments(for a larger analise) are incredible limited.

In order of preference:

1)BGII- Non linear, rich, adictive.
2)BGI- +Npcs, too much black area, good for a start, Little linear.
3)Tosc- So so, as to be a expansion.
4)Tob- Overgame intead of Gameover, Too much Linear( less than tosc, but for cronological purpose it is worst than Tosc, as we wait more of a new game), but even beeing the worst of the four( my point of view) still good.

Without doubts the Better and most amazing game(s) I ever play, dificult to forgot. Even better if compared with the others from diferent game productors(Blizzard[except fot warcraft]!!!!!!!!!!!)

Originally posted by PoMR:
<STRONG>I ran my character, a fighter/thief, Jaheira, Imoen and Khalid</STRONG>

Khalid lives!

ToB was really running from dungeon to dungeon. It had no large cities (I loved Athkatla). Well Saradush was ok but too bad it was under siege and then later it was completely destroyed boo!!

Fire giants were juicy to kill but very hard if you start from tob and don't do WK.

Melissan was icredibly hard. Perhaps because my kensai/thief had not exeeded the kensai level yet so he was basically useless. He also had a very poor set snare skill (10). I later leveld all my characters to the exp cap by resting and killing ambushers.

I always used to send Khalid off to his doom with the AI off so I could keep Jaheira without him whining, but by the end he was actually darn tough. A whining putz, but a /tough/ whining putz.

There are some plots you supposedly can't get without him too.

This party was fairly scary in BG by the time I got to the catacombs under CandleKeep.

*snicker* Of course - by then I'd achieved my goals of max XP for my main character, and I found all the stat books....so I just exported my guy and went to BG2. (Must...legitimately...complete...pantaloons quest....)

Originally posted by PoMR:
<STRONG>There are some plots you supposedly can't get without him too.</STRONG>

Hmm... and here I thought I'd seen it all in BG1. What did I miss?

Yeah, Khalid and Minsc would always "valiantly fall in battle" in my parties in BG, and then Jaheira (sometimes) but mostly Dynaheir, would stay on in the group...

Actually jaheira ate it a lot too...I'm glad they improved her for SOA, but you know I still find that she's a little subpar

I've always rather liked Jaheira. I don't think there were too many games in which I didn't keep her when I played BG, or for that matter BG2.

As to the quests - I honestly don't know, I reached my goals before I got to see them. I suspect they are triggered in the city, and iirc they were Harper quests of some sort.

I was SO bummed that Dynaheir got whacked! She was my favorite mage in BG, I'm sure she would have been a complet asskicker in BG2. It actually pained me in this recent game that I couldn't have her in the party since I wouldn't go over 4 characters. Of course, since I dualled Imoen to Illusionist it was okay.

I just beat the whole TOB series and found myself rather dissapointed. TOB, especially seemed to be a rush job, wrapping up the fate of the character a bit too fast. What really got me angry is how the whole nature of the character is glossed over in the happy ending. That was a big let down given the more controversial but interesting ending of BG1.

I was wondering about a couple of things, though. Did anyone beat TOB with an evil character? Is that ending any different? Secondly, I would like to know the stories of some party members. Does anyone here know the fate of Minsc, Anomen or Viconia?

The ending stories for all the NPCs are in the NPCs section here. Check them out...some are cool, some are grim.

I just finished ToB tonight, and I enjoyed the entire series thoroughly. I found SoA/ToB more appealing than BG1 -- more content, especially the NPC dialogues.

My favorite aspects of the game -- the scenes right before the final battles with Irenicus and Melissan where each NPC says something to you. I thought these scenes were rather touching without being cheesy.

I especially liked Imoen's speech before the battle with Melissan, where she says we've been through a lot, from Candlekeep to Baldur's Gate, Irenicus and Bodhi, and then now. Made me think back through the entire storyline. Poignant.

I loved the music. I even don't mind when I've played the game late into the night and go to sleep with the BG theme music still in my head.

My favorite part of the entire series -- ToB. Sure, it went too fast, but only because I didn't want it to end. I think Troll Slayer's point about the end of movies, books, etc. always going fast is a good one.

Would I play through the series again? Definitely not. It's too long. I'm sure some people will feel otherwise, but after having finished ToB, I'm happy with having played it once. Maybe it's because I did almost every quest, and because I was happy with my character, but I don't see much replayability value in the game. That doesn't mean I didn't really like the game, though. I just don't think I would enjoy it nearly as much the second time around. I guess that means that while I found the strategy and tactics of the game to be wonderful, the plot was the primary attraction for me.

BG1 had the supreme villain, and it was hard enough as well, even if it did have many bad sides. BG2 was FAR TOO EASY, anyone ever been able to solo BG1?

ToB was ok, but the story was a little poor, and it was far too easy as well, i expexted more from the lord of Demons, and the final boss was just a joke.. With baldurdash patches for the bosses it becomes much more fun, abazagil was my favourite battle, with 5 wyverns and a purple dragon (maybe TOO hard) and i still didnt beat Demogorgon with patch.

Great serie, but BG2 ToB too easy while in BG1 you couldnt do a lot, not too many cool items or spells to play around with, but the main story was maybe a bit stronger..

I think it is safe to say that When the BG team started on the original, they had no idea that what they would create would become such a work of art. As Troll Slayer said, and I have the same feelings, it was like a movie unfolding before our eyes. That is what programmers strive for when they create a story. The series captivate us, enthralled us, entranced us, and stole us from reality. When I would play BG2, I got right into the game, not realizing how many hours had passed. The only time I ever become that neglectant of time is when I'm reading a good book.

Every aspect of the series was finely tuned, and put together like that of a well scripted movie or novel. It flowed. It made us feel for the characters (Hell, I even felt sorry for Irenicus, havng being banished from his homeland). The NPC's had a depth, a realism that is not present in many other games. Players develop certain loyalties to characters, and always use them, just because they are familar, and you care for them. I don't think anything was wrong with the BG series. Bugs, glitches, tweaks. None of those things mattered to me as I played through the game. All I wanted was to see how the story of the Bhall-spawn played out, and what would happen...