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I really liked BG2 and I was wondering if there are games, other that Icewind Dale, that are like BG2.
Thanks.

Originally posted by peter_brightdawn:
<STRONG>I really liked BG2 and I was wondering if there are games, other that Icewind Dale, that are like BG2.
Thanks.</STRONG>

Try Fallout/Fallout 2 series (especially Fallout 2). It is not fantasy, rather Sci-Fi, but still true RPG.

Planescape:Torment.

Baldur's Gate?

Planescape: Torment. Definitely.

As for Icewind, make sure to get the two expansions (Heart of Winter and the free dowlnload Trials of the Luremaster). Planescape Torment is great - quite a few persons actually prefer it even to the BG series. Thorin rightly suggested BG1 if you haven't played it. Still a marvelous game and the many NPCs make for lots of replays. The expansion (Tales of the Sword Coast) is a must, too. Then we can look forward to Pool of Radiance and Neverwinter Nights next year, I believe. Also, Icewind Dale 2 has been "unofficially announced". So the situation isn't that bad, actually.

I wouldn't recommend playing PS:T after you have played BG2. It is a good game but lacks many features of BG....it will just annoy the hell out of you. Sure annoyed the hell out of me.

I would definately reccomend PST. It's much more a roleplayers game. Heavy on the story and chat, much lighter on the combat. It really is an absolutely amazing game.

It takes a little while to get over how different the setting is, but other than that, you'll enjoy every second of it. My only complaint is that it feels a bit short.

Baldur's Gate is also worth playing. See what led to Baldur's Gate II. It's not as good as BG2, lacking some of the small touches that were added later, but if you liked BG2, then you'll probably like BG too. Not much NPC interaction (though I could never bring myself to dump Immy), it still plays excellently, with a plot many prefer to the one in BG2. The combat plays rather different too, as for a long time, magic is less of an issue.

Myself, I'm doing a complete BG series quest, I finished BG and its expansion, ToTSC a few weeks ago, and I am now in the process of playing through BG2 and ToB with the same character. I even made sure to take the party in BG, that BG2 acts as if you had.

Great stuff

Something else that really pissed me off in PS:T is how dependent the game is on stats...if you have low int/wis you are screwed...which means you are screwed if you are a thief or a fighter. I deleted the game after I beat it, got me too pissed.

For pure storyline PS:T is amazing. The characters and setting are stunning, the graphics are good, though the interface takes some getting used to.

The NPCs had a real impact on the game, and on you. Even though stats are important, it is really easy to get them raised in that game. You get bonuses every level, there are lots of items and tatoos to raise them...you get bonus stats for sticking with a class to higher levels.

I really enjoyed it.

I cannot reccomend it strongly enough - in fact I wish that they'd come out with a PS:T 2!

IWD is also very cool...the add ons really help improve it, though I did have one problem with the game - basically it was pure monster bashing. There was a story, but with you creating all the characters you missed out on the scripted interactions between NPCs.

BG and BG2 had a nice mix of story and NPC interactions; but in PS:T your actions actually affect your Alignment, and such. It really makes a big difference in your choices too.

Anyway...sorry to launch into a dissertation of PS:T's merits.

Originally posted by Skeelo:
<STRONG>Something else that really pissed me off in PS:T is how dependent the game is on stats...if you have low int/wis you are screwed...which means you are screwed if you are a thief or a fighter. I deleted the game after I beat it, got me too pissed.</STRONG>

@Skeelo, you played it for what, 30 hours or so, and won--and you're claiming you were pissed? It sounds like you weren't too annoyed enough to stop while investing all that time in it.

Wisdom and Intelligence are *not* essential to win in P:T, contrary to posts I've seen elsewhere. But this is one game that gives mages, who are pretty underpowered (and don't get any fancy items or wands) reasonable rewards for thinking things through. On the other hand, it is a different, really bashing kind of game if you prefer playing a fighter. Personally, I don't think they implemented enough changes to make the thief class worth it; but P:T really does feel like a totally different experience if you run through a character with low wisdom, intelligence and charisma, giving all your acquired character points to strength, dexterity and constitution.

Myself I'd say they didn't make Fighter worth it. Thief makes for a better fighter, because of the run feature. Put alongside Annah you could run in, do a double backstab and instantly kill a foe. Run away, wait for the monsters to lose LOS, and repeat.

The lack of armour meant a Fighter simply couldn't do the up and personal fighting without you having a large supply of AC boosts.

The only thing that got on my nerves about PST, is that if you attempt the last section without high Wis and Int, and have nothing to boost your AC, then you are indeed screwed (at least as a thief). I was lucky that I had kept a save before this part.

[ 08-13-2001: Message edited by: Quitch ]

I hated ps:t. but I'm primarily into these games for the dungeons. but to ps:t's credit, the setting was a lot darker (very cool) and the storyline was just about the best I've played. you said you have played IWD and BG2? here is a simple equation for you: BG2 - IWD = PS:T. that is to say, take all of the cool dungeons out of bg2 and there you have ps:t.

I also recommend ps torment because it's the best game I've ever played.BG2 got alot of stuff from ps such as the dialogs wich started in ps.

I don't like PL:T but it's a good game: you can talk to NPCs, the dialogue choices depends on your intelligence/wisdom, you have many possibilities to finish a quest...
But the lack of armor and other minor defaults make the game a little boring. Definitively, it's not a game for fighters.
Honestly, I haven't expected PL:T a good game when I bought it: there was a special at the local store (you buy the game for 20$ and you receive 20$ by mail) and it's worth the money .

Originally posted by fable:
<STRONG>@Skeelo, you played it for what, 30 hours or so, and won--and you're claiming you were pissed? It sounds like you weren't too annoyed enough to stop while investing all that time in it.

Wisdom and Intelligence are *not* essential to win in P:T, contrary to posts I've seen elsewhere. But this is one game that gives mages, who are pretty underpowered (and don't get any fancy items or wands) reasonable rewards for thinking things through. On the other hand, it is a different, really bashing kind of game if you prefer playing a fighter. Personally, I don't think they implemented enough changes to make the thief class worth it; but P:T really does feel like a totally different experience if you run through a character with low wisdom, intelligence and charisma, giving all your acquired character points to strength, dexterity and constitution.</STRONG>

Yea probably about 30 hours. Even though I was pissed I cannot quit without finishing, I'm like that with all rpgs. The game isn't dependent on stats, but you miss out on way too much if your stats are not high enough. Not getting that 2 million experience in the end because my INT wasn't high enough was just killer so I cheated to beat the game and just get the stupid thing off my hard drive.

Skeelo writes:
Yea probably about 30 hours. Even though I was pissed I cannot quit without finishing, I'm like that with all rpgs. The game isn't dependent on stats, but you miss out on way too much if your stats are not high enough. Not getting that 2 million experience in the end because my INT wasn't high enough was just killer so I cheated to beat the game and just get the stupid thing off my hard drive.

LOL! No offense, Skeelo (and you know I like your posts), but you seem to have come to P:T with a powerplayer philosophy, which it was never designed to encourage. You got discouraged because you didn't get the 2 million experience points towards the end? I thought the point about P:T was the interesting characters, the fascinating backdrop, the choice of professions and ways to accomplish many goals, the satire on other games, and the great storyline.

So I think you're criticizing P:T for something it never set out to do, and missing what it was intended to do, and did well.

"Powergaming" is such a worthless phrase. The whole point of an rpg is to become more and more powerful, as powerful as I can can be, regardless of stats. Just because I don't have the adequate INT, I should have to suffer? The end of the game has to be much harder for me because I didn't put points into INT? Blah! It's like saying you can't win the lottery unelss you have a 140 IQ. BG2 isn't bent around anything except rep, thats why it's such a good game.

Skeelo writes:
"Powergaming" is such a worthless phrase. The whole point of an rpg is to become more and more powerful, as powerful as I can can be, regardless of stats.

I suspect you find "powergaming" a worthless phrase, because you believe it defines playing RPGs, as stated above. I'd disagree. Powergaming does define a specific attitude in which winning isn't simply a good result, but the best result with the highest score possible, to the exclusion of nearly all else.

I didn't play P:T to become "as powerful as I can be." My character's personal stats, attributes, goodies, etc, were secondary to the story, the characters, etc. Sure, I wanted to make him/her capable of fighting well, but I wasn't making that a high priority, and I didn't go out of my way to find and apply ever item I could locate. I don't regard that as fun, while others do. Neither of us is wrong.

Just because I don't have the adequate INT, I should have to suffer? The end of the game has to be much harder for me because I didn't put points into INT? Blah! It's like saying you can't win the lottery unelss you have a 140 IQ.

But again, it isn't a matter of hard or easy, it's a matter of why you choose to play the game. If you want to be the biggest, baddest dude in the land, you're not going to get all the conversational options and people aren't going to smilingly hand you all their goodies, because that's not the way you look or act: you're going to get tons of fights, including a real tough battle on your hands for the conclusion. If you enjoy IWD, that's what P:T will give you should you go the fighter route.

And if you forego the muscles and go for intelligence, etc, there's no reason you shouldn't find it easier to get around some battles. That's the same way the Fallout games are structured. This doesn't mean you'll get away from every challenge, and there are some tough ones in the game. But yes, you do manage to avoid some of the worst of it, and that (IMO) is as it should be.

[ 08-14-2001: Message edited by: fable ]

Actually, I always enjoyed the fact that in PS:T you character always felt human (you know what I mean). Sure, you could become very skillful in your art, but you could never stride around like a God. You couldn't defeat armies by yourself.

You were good, but you were oh so fragile.

I've got the feeling that in the BG series you really could beat the Uni verse all by yourself

Another great thing about PS:T was the way so much of the text was not talk, but actually narration, or description. It made it seem so much more intense than BG2.

As stated, it's a darker game. It's really very good. I can't reccomend it enough.

Oh, and PST has a (much) better poster than BG2 . Not that it had much to beat to be quite honest.

[ 08-14-2001: Message edited by: Quitch ]