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Hi everyone!

I have been thinking about multi-class characters (NPC and PC). I myself am a little bit against the multi-class persons because they can’t be really good in all of the classes.
If I were the one to set up a group of adventures, I would prefer pure-classed persons. Then they could specialise in different areas. Like;
one thief for finding traps and skilled in archery,
a really good front fighter,
maybe a barbarian to help the fighter,
a cleric that could heal the front fighters and
don’t forget the mage in the back (that’s me) that supports the fighters.

I may be wrong but I can’t figure out, how a multi-classed character (say fighter/mage) can be as good as a pure-class fighter in fighting.

These differs from game to game even in pen and paper AD&D. Many years back when I hosted a game as a DM, I have 10 players, all of them are single classed, after the campaign is finished, the highest leveled is a Thief level 13 or 14, the rest are about level 10 or 11 and we played everyday a month for 8 hours a day, so multi and dual class isnt very good for low level characters.

But in SOA it's different, multi class and dual class can be very successful.

It's all a question of how much experience points your characters can gain.

it depends. take a fighter-mage for example

f/m is especially good in little groups (no more than 4). a good thing about f/ms is that they get mage buffing spells. so, say, you are in the sewers (under CC) with a lvl 8/9 f/m, you can buff yourself (Draw upon holy might is awesome) stoneskin, spirit armor and whatever spells you have.

fighter-mages can pure class kits in a breeze. although they are used for toilet paper when unbuffed.

I agree with Uncle S. Levelling up to Level 40 may sound fun, but it's a waste of time, pretty much. At lvl 20-22, you are about as powerful as you are ever going to be - so why bother getting all the way to lvl 40 in one class? Why not hit the optimum in two classes? [BTW this is all assuming that you have ToB. If you've got SoA only, then a Dual Class is probably a good idea]. I guarentee that a Multiclass 20/20 Fighter Mage will slaughter either a maxed out xp Fighter or Mage...

i find multi-class characters are quite different to the single classed ones, and although they won't reach the dizzying heights of some single class characters, they can get bonuses and abilities from both, and without too many level penalties, thanks to the experience system. the fighter/mage will not be as good a *fighter*, but he'll be a far better mage and will be able to use various buffs that would normally a) only apply to the mage, and b) would require another mage character to cast.

I may be wrong but I can’t figure out, how a multi-classed character (say fighter/mage) can be as good as a pure-class fighter in fighting.

Offensive/Defensive spells (Imp. Haste, Stoneskin, Black Blade of Disaster, countless others).
Contingencies. Triggers.
We could write a tome here...

Frogus is right, it's really a no-match.

In small parties, multi-class rock, dual-class rock everywhere.

I gotta say that I think that the Dual/Multi-classed NPCs are just as good as the singled class ones. Just to spam the list, 'll make a couple of exapmles and use Aerie, Anomen, and...oh, why not Nalia for the heck of it?

Aerie, the Multi Cleric/Mage and an excellent NPC. She's got a huge array of offensive Mage spells to beat down her enemies with, while at the same time she has many of the powerful, but lower-level Cleric spells to keep her tail covered. Not only that, but as a Cleric Aerie can use a Small Shield, wear a helmet, weild maces and warhammers, and can wear the Elven Chain Mail +2. Great for many typed of situations!

Anomen is pretty interesting as a Dual-class Fighter/Cleric. He can wear any type of armor, is allowed more than just one profiency per weapon (as the Cleric is restricted to), and can still work as a great make-shift healer if your party is lacking a Druid, or if you just want to load up all of the healing spells on him and not waste your Spell Slots on Aerie and Jaheira. He's good for a middle-line warrior as he can still summon two Skeleton Warriors when because he levels quickly. He's pretty flexable for some situations, but he's got diddly-squat going for him in resistances unless equiped with magical items.

Nalia isn't the only Thief/Mage in the game, and pray tell she isn't the best Thief. She is good when it comes to detecting traps or picking odd locks, but her Mage spells tend to be her best trait. I've used her as a beautiful spy. Her stealth abilities (if successful) with allow her to Hide in SHadows longe enough to get out of danger, then cast Improved Invasability to get back into battle with some nice Backstab ability. She's quite useful in the beginning, especially in mobs of enemies.

But your own opinion is best for you. I'm not going to go preaching about how good or bad PCs as Dual and Multi classed are. It all depends on how you like to play. So, I guess I'll sign off on this note and hope that I didn't throw anybody off with my spamming rambling. Bye!

~A.

You may be right in almost every situation except one, that of coarse is the incredible monk. A high level monk (with over 90% magic resis) as in a solo game would beat any other player in the game in a one on one fight to the death, huge bonuses and awsome special moves such as stun and quivering palm could take down any dual or multi no worries, if battle gets too tough just hide in shadows and run away to attack again later. Simple.

Nothing can beat a MONK.

Yeah, Dual class is much better than Multi class and single class.

His a specialist in two classes.

Multi class are amatuers in two classes most of the time.

A couple of single classes get a LOT more powerful at levels 31-40 (depends whether the XP cap is removed or not).

Examples: Monk (higher MR), Sorcerer (learns up to 5 lvl 9 spells), Wild Mage (adds level to wild surge rolls).

This is not the case with the pure mage or the pure fighter, because:

- For the pure mage, high level abilities stop at lvl 26 and the last spell slot is obtained at lvl 29, so no point in going to lvl 31. Even going beyond lvl 20 is questionable.

- For the pure fighter, THAC0 progression caps at lvl 20. All you get beyond lvl 20 is Hit Points, Weapon Proficiencies and more High Level Abilities (which are good, I admit). The fighter has no protection spells, however. This makes him VERY vulnerable without mage/cleric support.

In ToB, the best trade-off is probably the multi Fighter/Mage (or the F/M/T if you remove the XP cap), but if you choose one of the single classes above you are also fine.

Only non-humans can be multi-class. In PnP non humans couldn't advance beyond certain levels, partly because some of the other bonuses they got like bonus to saves etc. In SoA, ToB non-humans have no restrictions in their levelling. Also multis get their abilities at the same amount of xp as singleclasses and earlier then duals.
So if there is enough xp to go around(small party) then ofcourse multis have an advantage over singleclassed characters. If you are looking for the character with the most bonuses that is.
However you could also play as a Bard and be a singleclassed multiclass with speedy levelling

For the pure mage, high level abilities stop at lvl 26 and the last spell slot is obtained at lvl 29, so no point in going to lvl 31. Even going beyond lvl 20 is questionable.

hum, around level 34/35 you gain the 5th ninth-level spot....
You wouldn't imagine how this can be essential...

Originally posted by Archeron
You may be right in almost every situation except one, that of coarse is the incredible monk. A high level monk (with over 90% magic resis) as in a solo game would beat any other player in the game in a one on one fight to the death, huge bonuses and awsome special moves such as stun and quivering palm could take down any dual or multi no worries, if battle gets too tough just hide in shadows and run away to attack again later. Simple.

Nothing can beat a MONK.

There has been very long discussions regardning one to one combat on this board. IIRC, most people agreed that the Monk would have a hard time against for example a Fighter/Mage with the Staff of the Magi. What you can't see, you can't hit...

BTW, you can't Hide in Shadows while in sight of your enemies - you'll need to run away first.

"Best dueling class" is not well-defined. If all items are fair game then the prot from magic scroll is going to put a serious damper on casters. If you outlaw that then what else should be outlawed also (staff of magi and robe of vecna for example)? How big is the arena? How available are shadows? Do the combatants start within sight of each other? The list goes on ...

As far as pure vs multi/dual I agree with the majority here. In just SoA dual have an advantage and multi can be good or bad depending. In ToB any class that can be dualled/mutlied should be if you're just going for power. Certain pure classes that can't be multied would of course still have merit for utility to the group (inquisitor, sorceror, etc).

Thanks a lot for all interesting messages. It appears as if most of you agree that a dual- or multi-class character is generally better than a single-class character if you compare two persons.
But, what about a hole party with six single-classed characters (level 12 – 15)? Are they still not that good as a party with dual-classed characters that has completed the same quests, sloughed the same enemies and so forth (theoretically)? The dual-class party should have lower level due to dual-classing, right?

Remember that the fighter and the mage were only an example. I’m interested in the whole party not only individual members of the party.

And FYI, I have ToB so there are no XP cap.

Originally posted by Esfafadro
Thanks a lot for all interesting messages. It appears as if most of you agree that a dual- or multi-class character is generally better than a single-class character if you compare two persons.
But, what about a hole party with six single-classed characters (level 12 – 15)? Are they still not that good as a party with dual-classed characters that has completed the same quests, sloughed the same enemies and so forth (theoretically)? The dual-class party should have lower level due to dual-classing, right?

Remember that the fighter and the mage were only an example. I’m interested in the whole party not only individual members of the party.

And FYI, I have ToB so there are no XP cap.

It's hard to answer which party is the "better" - it all depends on your playing style and what you value in a PC/NPC. A dualclass character don't necessarily have to be lower class than a single class character. This is due to the fact that it doesn't take vert much XPs to advance for example a Fighter to, say 9th level, while it takes lots more XPs to advance a character on higher level. Being a couple of hundred thousand XPs behind isn't a big deal when it takes millions XPs to advance. A multiclass character will always be behind one or a few levels, though.

Unless you are playing a game thet wan't let you gain much exp., a dual class is always better than a single class (the only drawback being that with single class you can choose a non human character that can have some race specifics bonuses).
In SoA you start with around 90 k of exp. pt (being around 7-9 level depending the class), if you dual right at the start you can still have some consistent bonuses from the first class (hit pt. and proficiency if a fighter, thieving skills if thief) and actually not losing anything on the second. Even waiting to lev 9-10 wan't weaken much your secong main class compeared to a single-class (is no more than one level of difference).
As for multiclass, in games where the available exp. is not much (Baldus gate, Icewindale) they are not very powerfull, but in SoA and expecially in ToB they really shine and become very powerfull: high abilities from two pool, Thaco similar to single classes, they can only be a little behind on spellcasting abilities, but with lot of extras.

Originally posted by lompo
Unless you are playing a game thet wan't let you gain much exp., a dual class is always better than a single class

Although I agree with you in part, this will have to depend upon your priorities. You cannot choose a kit for your second class. Should for example many spells be your highest priority, a dual is not the way to go since a dualclass X/Mage will never get the extra spells of a specialist.

Annoying how one can answer any BG question with 'it depends', but.....

It depends. IMHO opinion the best party in the game contains only three characters, or four if you want. Three person parties level up quickly, but are still flexible enough to handle everything without constantly resting, hiding, cheesing or whatever...and of course in a three person party a multiclasser or two is essential.
However, in a six person party, you can have a Fighter, a Mage, a Cleric, a Thief, a Monk and still have room for a less orthodox class, so a multiclasser is non-essential. I found that (in my first time through BG2) Jaheira was pretty useless. This is because she was a multiclass, and hence not nearly as good a fighter as either Keldorn or Minsc (neither of whom are even real fighters!), and was too busy fighting to be a very effective cleric. She wasn't much cop, because her two classes did not complement each other. I believe that if someone is going to stand up in a six-person party as a multiclasser, the two classes have to be chosen very carefully. A Fighter-Thief might very well be a good idea in a six person team, but a Thief-Mage will never get used for either thievery or magic. This is why Aerie is so great. She has two classes that compliment each other perfectly. She doesn't need to act any differently for either of her two classes, she just stands at the back, blasting away with a double-arsenal of spells. So chose wisely.

Originally posted by frogus
IMHO opinion the best party in the game contains only three men, or four if you want.

Got anything against women, Kermit?

A Fighter-Thief might very well be a good idea in a six man team, but a Thief-Mage will never get used for either thievery or magic.

You've abviously never met Jan...