GameBanshee Forums

i just started a sorceror with stats:

strength 10
dexterity 12
constitution 12
wisdom 10
inteligence 10
charisma 18

i know the sorcerors spells work on charisma that is why i got so high but does inteligence and wisdom matter at all for me? what should i put more points on as i go up levels?

also i got a pixie for my familiar, can it pickpocket?

Intelligence and wisdom won't affect you spell-casting, but they'll affect other things (it's in the manual).

I usually advocate that your primary stats dosen't need to be so high to begin with.
A starting score of 15 is enough if you place all your bonus points you get when leveling up.

At charisma 15 you can cast level 5 spells.
At level 4 you get one bonus point that will bring you to charisma 16, so you can cast level 6 spells (alhouth you still only have acess to level 2 spells).
At 8 you will get to 17, thus level 7 spells, but you can only cast level 4 and so on up to level 16 when you will get to 19 charisma for the level 9 spells, but still only need level 8 spells (and level 20 where I'd bring it to 20 charisma).

Thus imo - a starting of 18 in charisma is somewhat wasted and all the points you spend on raising it from 15/16 to 18 could be better used on some dexterity (if you plan on using a range weapon, you can't cast many spells) or constitution if you plan on daggers or stafs.

My sorcerer stats, as I usually play him is:
Str: 08
Dex: 16
Con: 14
Wis: 10
Int: 12
Cha: 15

This char is made specifically for an online world, thus I've via the bio. I*ve made for my sorcerer worked in his stats, so therefore they might be a bit untypical (he is a weakling and not very wise )

I disagree, with spellcasters I always take 18 in their primary skill, as the difference between 15 and 18 (once the bonus points are added) is an extra 2nd and 6th level spell.

One thing to bear in mind is that the highest spell level you can cast is not effected by any equipment which raises the determining stat.

In practice, my 19th level Cleric with natural 18 Wisdom was unable to access 9th level spells, even with a +5 Periapt of Wisdom equipped. I had to wait 'til 20th level to raise her Wisdom to a natural 19. Of course this happened 99% of the way through the game, but at least I got to Gate in a few Balors before the end.

Yes Zolt but you can't even use that extra 2nd level spell with your sorceror until you reach 4th level. Starting with an 18 in any score is wasted when using point buy. At lower levels when surviveability is so low anyway you are hurting yourself much more than you are helping. Especially with a sorceror. With low Con you are hurting your already miniscule hit point total and with low dex you make it harder on yourself to hit with several spells not to mention easier for the monsters to hit you versus your already bad AC. Starting with an 18 is obviously your choice as is everything about your character, but if you think about it a little your shooting yourself in the foot.

I like having as many spells as possible, and I believe the tough beginning is worth it for the extra spells later on. (Familiars/henchmen can do most of the early work anyways)

Starting with 18 cha results in that extra 2nd and 6th level spell including the points received from the point buy system.
(Look at the chart on p.72)

I understand that you enjoy having more spell slots per day, but let me ask you this. How often do you run out of spells and have to rest in relation to having to rest or heal because your getting low on HP?

Originally posted by Zolt
I disagree, with spellcasters I always take 18 in their primary skill, as the difference between 15 and 18 (once the bonus points are added) is an extra 2nd and 6th level spell.

With the 15 for starters, you might have a couple less spell per day, but you will survive a lot longer.
Also the 15 will get to 19 at level 16 for the level 9 spells, and 20 at level 20, for the bonus of even numbers.
And besides - what use is an extra level 6 spell when you are sub-level 12? (at 12 I would have 18 charisma anyway - 3 bonus points ontop of the start value 15).

I would rather have the better use of a crossbow (my sorcerers fav. weapon) and extra hitpoints per level (and con. helps against being disrupted in spellcasting) than 1 extra spell per day/rest at the lower levels.

Also something I noticed with the stats posted in the beginning - there is no uneven number, wich means that seeing you get 5 bonus stat points, you potentinally risk loosing the value of 1 bonus stat point (you only get bonus' from stats. on even numbers). My advice is have 1 or 3 uneven numbers in your stats, to be sure to utilize the full amount of your bonus points. Just imo.

I wouldn't go beyond 16 for starting stats, the price is simply too high and NWN uses all other stats for ability rolls - better to have one more 12 or 14.

Concerning sorcerors I've decided to play a Sorceror-Paladin next (after finishing the game with my Rogue-Ranger). Those two classes should work together pretty good.

They do admirably.

Originally posted by Phantom Lord
Concerning sorcerors I've decided to play a Sorceror-Paladin next (after finishing the game with my Rogue-Ranger). Those two classes should work together pretty good.

Only problem is casting spells while wearing armour... It might be a good idea to max out Dex (to get a better AC) and go for Weapon Finesse. But you probably did this with your Ranger/Rogue and want to try something different.

Don't forget another reason to start with an 18 in your spellcasting attribute beyond the bonus spells: the DC to save against them. The saving throw DC of your spells is 10 + Spell's Level + Your Spellcasting Attribute Bonus. Starting with an 18 Charisma vs. a 15 Charisma means enemies will have to roll 2 higher to save against all your spells. In my opinion, that (combined with the extra spells per day) is definitely enough reason to keep your Charisma maxed out at all times.

Xandax, you're right in figuring an odd number of bonus points means one will be 'wasted' this way (a 23 Charisma won't give you a bonus higher than a 22 Charisma would), BUT items that add bonuses to your attributes (Cloaks of Charisma, Periapts of Wisdom, etc.) have a maximum bonus of +5. Thus, at 20th level a character with a 23 Charisma wearing a +5 Cloak of Charisma could max out at 28, just enough for a +9 bonus. Enemies would then need to roll a 28 or better to save against your 9th level spells (barring Feats or Skills that might raise this even further). I do agree that most of these benefits apply only at high level, and I think your more well-rounded approach is best throughout the game in general.

Originally posted by Astafas
Only problem is casting spells while wearing armour... It might be a good idea to max out Dex (to get a better AC) and go for Weapon Finesse. But you probably did this with your Ranger/Rogue and want to try something different.

I probably wouldn't wear armor at all, taking the sorceror class as major and the paladin class as minor. I think a pure Sorceror can live without, so why shouldn't such a character? The idea is mainly to get more HP, warrior ability access and of course the overlapping effects of high charisma (lay on hands, saving throws). It's also interesting to imagine such a character in terms of roleplaying.

The Ranger/Rogue will probably end up with high Dex - very true - and to make things even worse he's a halfling, initial dex was cheap. Weapon finesse certainly is a must-have in this case, I think strength is his second lowest stat. His other major hobbies are not to unlock but to steal (and when needed later set) traps as well as his dual wield sneak attack - pretty dangerous.

Originally posted by Phantom Lord

I probably wouldn't wear armor at all, taking the sorceror class as major and the paladin class as minor. I think a pure Sorceror can live without, so why shouldn't such a character?

That's was pretty much my suggestion, thus the high Dex. The main difference would probably be that a Sorceror stands back while you'll probably want to put your Paladin into some melee every now and then.

Originally posted by Catalyst
Don't forget another reason to start with an 18 in your spellcasting attribute beyond the bonus spells: the DC to save against them. The saving throw DC of your spells is 10 + Spell's Level + Your Spellcasting Attribute Bonus. Starting with an 18 Charisma vs. a 15 Charisma means enemies will have to roll 2 higher to save against all your spells. In my opinion, that (combined with the extra spells per day) is definitely enough reason to keep your Charisma maxed out at all times.
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This is a viable argument, I would however not consider this for any of my sorcerers (or wizards) because at the lower levels you will need to rely on your weapon and survival skill a lot - especailly in multiplayer worlds as opposed to Single player where you can reload.

As for the item thingy that is correct - I (notice *I*) would however never plan a character with items in mind, and here again, I think specifically for multiplayer games/worlds.
For single player, maybe thinking that item X exists will help in creation of your character, but what if you don't get item X?

But as I usually says, this is imo - and people should make chars they like to roleplay.
Just giving my 2 cp.

Even not knowing the items in the game, with 18cha you could add 4 to get to 22 and then add your remaining point in dex or whatever odd stat point you have left.

Originally posted by Astafas
That's was pretty much my suggestion, thus the high Dex. The main difference would probably be that a Sorceror stands back while you'll probably want to put your Paladin into some melee every now and then.

Yes, Dex and probably Con or Wis would be my second most important stats and I'd avoid stats lower than 10 all the way. All in all I'd play like I'd do with a normal Sorc in most situations and probably avoid melee. I'm thinking about putting every third or fourth level-up only into the paladin class to fortify the sorc. The result should feel like a heavy duty spellcasting paladin who actually traded sword and armor for a spellbook.