GameBanshee Forums

Just curious, what do you guys think of the stalker ranger kit? It doesn't seem to be very popular in terms of usage or discussion, but the few that do use it seem to love it to death.

Personally I really love the stalker kit to death; it's my favorite ranger kit, my favorite single-class, and second only to the assassin-13/fighter as my favorite class altogether. The stalker appeals to me because the only restriction it gets is the inability to wear above studded leather, and to play a ranger to his fullest you shouldn't be wearing above that anyway, so the restriction serves as more of a reminder to play a ranger like a ranger and not like a brute fighter. In return, he gets that lovely backstab (4x at level 17), which while not as powerful as an assassin's, is still very useful. And he can fight very well after the backstab. Casting 3 Armors of Faith before plunging into the middle of an enemy party with a lead-in backstab really makes sure he'll live to kick major ass in short order. Plus the haste spell he gets for free at level 12 frees your mage's level 3 slots for more fireballs. Of all the good-aligned PCs I've played my stalkers have been the most fun to use.

I'm even in the process of soloing one right now through ToB (beat SoA with very little trouble).

The stalker is actually my favorite kit. He's so versatile: he can fight, backstab, use priest and mage spells... he'll do everything except deliver pizza.

Try telling that to the pizza delivery stalker who just dropped a steaming four seasons with extra squid ink round here! Mmmmm...inky...



@Impaler: are you running the Baldurdash fixes? If so, armour of faith no longer stacks. If you're not...carry on.

Ehmm.... Isn't Valygar a Stalker?
That would be enough reason for me not to be a Stalker.

Uhm, I've always been wondering what are rangers supposed to do with all those "charm animals".

Every ranger kit has plenty of them, even the Stalker which has very little to do with animals imho, I'm wondering, does anybody ever actually cast them?

Originally posted by serjeLeBlade
Uhm, I've always been wondering what are rangers supposed to do with all those "charm animals".

Every ranger kit has plenty of them, even the Stalker which has very little to do with animals imho, I'm wondering, does anybody ever actually cast them?

Ask Userunfriendly, he can find something good in everything.

The Charm Animal ability isn't all that great but it does have some uses. You can charm umber hulks for instance - and with a little timing, you can cast it and still get all your attacks per round as it's an innate with a casting speed of 1.

-Syl.

Originally posted by serjeLeBlade
Uhm, I've always been wondering what are rangers supposed to do with all those "charm animals".

Every ranger kit has plenty of them, even the Stalker which has very little to do with animals imho, I'm wondering, does anybody ever actually cast them?

I used Charm Animal to great effect in the illithid tunnels in the sewers on the Umber Hulks. The Umber Hulk was bait and would also usually take out a couple of illithids along with it, while my Celestial Fury-wielding stalker proceeded to beat the crap out of the rest of them (including a lead-in backstab on one of them for a nice kill).

Hmm, I don't see how the stalker is any less associated with animals than other rangers. Unlike other rangers, they are comfortable in urban environments, but they are equally comfortable in the wilderness. In the city I'm sure a stalker would have a good reason to charm a dog, for example, to get info, to scare away villains, etc. Plus Valygar, a stalker, no less, loves the wilderness more than Atkathla, and is said in the game to be a trained woodsman.

I disagree with the stalker being the best ranger class. I say that the archer is by far the best. lets compare stats.

Stalker
Advantages
+20% to stealth ability
maybe backstab for lesser amount then the thief class (level 1-8 x1, level 9-16 x2 level 17+ x3)
has access to three mage spells at 12th level (haste, protection from normal missles, minor spell deflection).

disadvanages
may not wear armor greater then studded leather

Archer
Advantages
gets +1 to hit and +1 to damage with any missle weapon for every 3 levels of experience. this slows to a +1 hit and damage every 5 levels once you reach level 18. (max level in TOB is 34 for all rangers so +9 in the end)
every 4 levels he gains the ability to make a called shot once per day. when he activates this ability, any shot made within the next 10 seconds is augmented in the following matter (according to level or archer)
4th level: hits induce -1 THACO to target
8th level -1 save vs. magic of target
12th level: -1 strength of target
16th level: +2 bonus to damage.
disadvanages.
can only become proficient in melee weapons (1 point into each)
cannot wear any metal armor.

now based on this the archer gets a huge bonus to damage in the end. stalkers do not. archer's have a special ability (I admit it's weak but it can still help weaken an enemy even more). as said in the versus guide book I got class info from "we think the archer realy shines above the rest of the ranger classes. at higher levels (specifically 16th) his arrows are otherwise known as "missiles of death", commonly dealing out massive damage with a decent long bow.
also one disadvanage that some might argue about an archer is how that they need ammo. this can be countered if you have TOB installed.

Spoiler








on the 1st floor of WC there is a quirrel with infinite arrows of +1 that can be upgraded to +2, same thing with quirrels and sling's ammo.

Stalkers can backstab but not as much damage can be done by them. this lets them help your group get a suprise attack on the enemies, the stalkers spells are useless pretty much except for haste. the stalker has a disadvanage of the armor that he can wear as a close up fighter. he can just wear thief type armor which hurts him. the archer doesn't need a good AC as much as a stalker would from standing back more while the others hold off the enemies. the archer's power can be increased with the boots of speed to make him get away from guys that get to him. as you see with the right equipment an archer can be better and stronger then a stalker.

Originally posted by MasterDarkNinja
I disagree with the stalker being the best ranger class. I say that the archer is by far the best.

I never said as a blunt fact that the stalker is the best. I said he's my personal favorite.

the archer gets a huge bonus to damage in the end. stalkers do not. archer's have a special ability (I admit it's weak but it can still help weaken an enemy even more).

Okay, I can play the numbers game, too. I've played both an archer and a stalker through SoA and ToB. Even with all the bonuses, my archer only did around 22-23 non-critical damage at most per hit, and this was with called shot activated, and at level 30. Now compare that to my stalker, who with specialization in katanas and scimitars, at level 17, was hitting enemies for 27-33 non-critical consistently at 5 attacks per round with Celestial Fury and Belm (and well in the mid- to upper-30s against demons, his racial enemy), stunning enemies left and right, and by then w/ a 4x backstab was always killing the mage or cleric in an enemy party.

as said in the versus guide book I got class info from "we think the archer realy shines above the rest of the ranger classes. at higher levels (specifically 16th) his arrows are otherwise known as "missiles of death", commonly dealing out massive damage with a decent long bow.

This somehow leads me to believe that your argument is not taken from experience with both ranger kits, and is therefore flawed. The Versus guide is very questionable anyway; if you read their fighter kit section they'll say the plain fighter is the best, better than the berserker and they make no mention of the kensai in comparison, which is total BS. Their analyses of the kits in general are very generalized and half-assed. At any rate, play with both classes before you make your opinion solid.

Stalkers can backstab but not as much damage can be done by them.

A 4x backstab, augmented with a stalker's ability to specialize in weapons (+2 damage that is multiplied with the backstab), is no laughing matter at all. With a high exceptional strength or a belt of strength plus a gauntlet of weapon specialization on top of that my backstabs were easily hitting 90 consistently, with occasional stabs up past 110. And that's not on a critical hit. I won't even start on the Critical Strike, Power Attack, and Smite HLAs in combination with the backstab.

the stalkers spells are useless pretty much except for haste.

I actually agree with you here about the bonus spells, since I never have any use for Protection from Normal Missles or Minor Spell Deflection. But Haste alone makes the level 12 bonus worthwhile, as level 3 ranger spells otherwise are generally worthless anyway. As for other levels, Armor of Faith at 1st level is very useful when sneaking up on a tough-looking enemy party.

the stalker has a disadvanage of the armor that he can wear as a close up fighter. he can just wear thief type armor which hurts him. the archer doesn't need a good AC as much as a stalker would from standing back more while the others hold off the enemies. the archer's power can be increased with the boots of speed to make him get away from guys that get to him. as you see with the right equipment an archer can be better and stronger then a stalker.

Definately have to disagree with you. Stalkers have access to Shadow Dragon Armor (AC 1), which is as good as standard full plate, and in ToB they have access to White Dragon Scale (AC -2), which is as good as armor gets. Plus in ToB, AC isn't even an issue as most fighters can seem to hit a -10 AC with consistency anyway. A tanked-up berserker by this point will be hit as often as a stalker.

And with the right equipment, it's just as easily the other way. Celestial Fury is practically made for the stalker, as are the Cloak of Non-Detection, Montolio's Cloak, Belm, Hindo's Doom, and Gauntlets of Weapon Specialization. And how's this for experience: I've soloed both an archer and a stalker through SoA (in the process of ToB with a stalker, haven't finished solo with either yet), and my stalker game was actually easier than my archer game for SoA, both played on hard.

if you read their fighter kit section they'll say the plain fighter is the best, better than the berserker and they make no mention of the kensai in comparison

well the kensai has no real way to get AC except for dex and rings of protection (only up to +2) so the AC for a close up fighter does hurt him, he may be able to dish out more damage with +1 hit and damage every 3 levels but he can't take the damage, his only defense there is high hp.
also about the berserker there is one problem about his bonus's... he gets them all ONLY when enraged, and since he become winded after beserking and gets a penalty to areas so that would hurt his score. I never used his special abilities with Korgan, I tried it once and I hated the "cannot save from not having full control of all of my party members" (when Ironically if your under the influence of a stun spell or something like that you CAN save if there are no enemies left, and the no save time is a while to wait I think). the rage is only useful to be immune to imprisonment BUT every enemy that can use imprisonment needs +4 weapons or higher to be harmed, you will not have anything that strong in SOA with the demi-lich there. as for the demi lich in TOB you can have a weapon strong enough to hurt them but he can imprison the rest of your party members before the berserker can get close enough to be only one targeted. enemies cheat with the range of imprisonment it's supposed to be close up only and they cast it from across the screen at you.
also the berserker cannot use arch weapons, this is another area that I think that he got hurt in to the versus guide opinions. it may not seem like much most of the time but when fighting level draining undead and the berserker isn't immune to level drain... he won't do too good up close, that's the one time that the one (or 2) people with immunity to level drain will need archery support to survive against the huge numbers of undead.
as for the wizard slayer... well he stinks from not being able to use any magical stuff (except for weapons and chest armor plus boots of speed) and the 1 magic resistance is nothing, the monk gets WAY more magic resistance every level, it ends at 93% by the end the TOB if your at the max level.
I agree with just about every rating they give stuff in BG2 (except for Edwin in SOA, they gave him a bronze!!!, also giving Korgan a silver for just one NPC that's stronger then he is in TOB!!!, I also don't think that imoen, nalia, and aerie should be rated that high at all either but I never played as imoen or nalia really)
so I fail to see your point of view on the class ratings, NPC ratings however are not as reasonable in some areas.

Originally posted by MasterDarkNinja
also the berserker cannot use arch weapons, this is another area that I think that he got hurt in to the versus guide opinions.

FYI, the berserker can use missile weapons; however, he may not specialize in them. He can only put one point into missile weapons the same way an archer can only put one point into melee.

oh... I didn't notice that, I just read the class description once I got Korgan and didn't use arch weapons on him. I thought that he could just use throwing axes for arch weapons and that's it (and throwing axes weigh too much to be worth it).

Originally posted by Impaler987
And with the right equipment, it's just as easily the other way. Celestial Fury is practically made for the stalker, [/b]

Not quite sure what you mean by this. CF is a great weapon for anyone who can use Katanas. I am soloing a Bard at the moment and it is definitely a life-saver. How do stalkers gain a special advantage with CF?

Great analysis on your other points BTW.

master dark ninja forgot or did not know a perk of the archer kit, and why i always sk minsc into archer.....

called shot at lv 12 will drain 1 str point per hit....

now with improved haste, and item upgrade, you can use +3 infinite arrows version that can do aroud 8 arrows a round...attribute drain a enemy to death!!!!


should take 3 rounds to kill a dragon....

attribute drain is seriously evil in ranged weps...meelee is bad enough....

even more fun is using the guard button cheese, the buggers never know what hit them.....

This is true, but still, the archer has only one good thing going for him, while the stalker can do more and different things.
Still, that's not why I prefer stalkers over archers. Archers may or may not be more powerful than stalkers. It's just that, from a roleplaying perspective, the stalker IMHO is much more fun and much more interesting.

@ impaler. I noticed 90 to 110 points of backstab damage with a stalker. My Kensai/Theif averaged double that.

Having said that, the stalker is pretty good. But you can do just about everything a stalker can do with a Kensai/Theif. You loose some crappy spells and charm animals, and gain the other theif abilities like detect/disarm/set traps. I always give her Celestial Fury and the Boots of Speed.

If I am going to have a Ranger in my party, it is going to be an Archer. I say if, because I haven't had one in my party in a while. Even then I do the same thing as User and change Minsc to an Archer. 'Hamsters and Rangers everywhere, Rejoice!"

I just got an interesting idea. What about a mod for a bow that could shoot hamsters! I'm sure Jan could make it for Minsc. Ah, what a visual image.

go for the eyes boo, go for the eyes....

make it blind enemies...

have a hamster animation fly from the bow...

this would be almost as funny as a real working dwarven thrower that throws the dwarf...