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In my first games of BG2 I started rolling for my stats for hours and i put my charisma as low as possible (you had the ring of humaninfluence very early in the game)
Fighter always had a max str/dex/con, mages always max int. and (almost)max dex/con.

For clerics/druids this was wisom.

But later on, i started creating a character in my head, and added his (or hers) weakpoints, like a thief with a very high charisma but a low con and str. this (i thought) would make the game more intressting.

But then i woke up at night, all sweaty, and realized, I HAD BECOME A ROLLPLAYER.
I imidiatly deleted bunbun, and all my other overpowered character, and started playing.

Only i found it hard, realy hard not to become a powergamer again.
I could stay in allignment, and i could give my self non-uberstats, but when it came to weapons, i was falling back.

Is there anyone who dousnt calculate in the best weapons for their character before they start the game?
And is noone ever tempted to put 1less point on charisma on their fighter, and put that on their str cause they know thell find the ring?

I think you can only rollplay on youre first try trough the game, anyone agrees?

That's why i like NWN alot of different worlds, and so rollplaying all the way (with my half-orc barbarian with low int,wisd,dex (i wanted to create a dumb, but brutal/sweet force))

I know what you speak of.
I also remember my first BG runthrough, just started up with a barbarian half/orc with 19 strength and 5 int.
I didn't care for weapon-specialization, had 2 * in long sword, but used a warhammer because it looked so good, and daystar for the damage.
Later on, like everyone else, creating my own chars with SK and InfExp., able to use every spell in the game, equipped with a home-made golden dragon armor.

But I don't think WE are responsible for falling into powergaming.
It's the fault of the designers.

*KKRRCCHH*.... (digs in memory)

I wanted to post this thread myself, but I didn't think anyone would understand, and actually MISS the old days.

I can remember playing RPG's on my AT or 386, walking through forests with a +1 weapon at best, having a mage by my side who could memorize up to 2 third level spells, like temporarily paralization with a saving throw even Minsc could resist.

A few RPG's later: a mage who could disintegrate....
Wow, ashes 2 ashes and dust 2 dust, what a spell....
Gathering pieces of a holy sword over multiple levels, and forging it into....... a +3 LONGSWORD!!

I thought things couldn't get any better.
+3.....

And now, look and shiver.
+3? Lol, you can't even ITCH a demon with it.

Disintegrate? You can hardly fry a housecat with that.

But what's next? It can't stop here. You can't go back now.
DnD has reached higher levels, broken limits, crossed borders and you can hardly return to the past.

Would YOU give up the thrill of the Timestops, Powerword Kills etc.?
No, I think most gamers just want the best, beating up 5 dragons at a time using +9 customized weapons and using your own customized lvl 12 spells.

As you can read..... I DON'T!
But, I think it's just evolution, of both the game as well as your self, which can not be stopped.
A new generation of RPG-players is coming, and they STARTED their gaming with lvl 9's and +5's, so there's no need of returning.

For ANY of us......

(Satisfied by the statement he delivered, NiteWulf returned to playing BG2. Jan casts Timestop, Viconia Natures Beauty, slashing with the Flail of Ages +5, Foebane +6, *sigh*............................ )But I have a good time, realizing it can't get any better.

But, back to Stilgars' question, I think most people will do the same like you, and fanatically brows the stats to become a Virtual God, equipped with the best weapons and spells ever.

Just had to do it folks, sorry

Originally posted by Jaesha
You deleted bun bun??? What kind of sicko are you???

Luckylie I had a backup

I've always been a roleplayer. While of course I want my character to kick ass, I've always tried to stay in character, in alignment, and given my character obvious weaknesses to offset his strengths. Well, when I was a kid I was more of a power gamer, cuz I just played with my cousin and he's an idiot. Then I got hooked up with a group of good roleplayers, and into the RPGA.

The key is to seek for power, but starting from weak points and/or roleplaying restrictions.

For instance, it may result that the best weapon for my current char is the Silver Blade, but his moral prevents him to use Vorpal Blades.

Here comes the real fun, live your characters and try to maximize their power only after.

I think I'm more tuned to roleplaying, but it aways depends on the mood.
Sometimes you just want to cleave people in twain but you can't find where you put your Carmaggedon CD, so you load a save-game in Shadowkeeper and add some nice weapons ang go teach Jon-Bon a REAL lesson... this fun is not enough to support a whole run through the game, but is nice to fight some of the major opponents with a bit of an edge.
When I run through the whole game (am in the middle of the 3rd time) I enforce roleplaying. But sometimes I slip up. I couldn't make my Inquisitor kill the Spectator beholder. Desaix could tought he was nothing but a creature of evil, but Leonardo considered him a very nice fellow

if you deleted bun bun 7, thats ok, i had a typo in the perminent spell turning...looked ok, but did not work...

bun bun8 is fine in all respects....


you know, i pretty much pushed bun bun to obscene limits...

how about jahiera 1???

or aerie 1 or jan or minsc???

share the power, make a party to make wes cry....

I had a revelation about two weeks ago, here's how it happened:

Charging through WK with my SoA party, all about level 13, my PC was an Anti-Paladin and I had Korgie, Edwin, Vic, and a chaotic evil Keldorn + Valen. All I had to do was point and click and the beasties had no chance, this is with core rules and Sola and Ascen mods + almost every other mod out there.

Just after I completed WK I was reading posts here about how hard it is and the strateges needed to get through certain bits, funny I thought to myself, I didn't do any of that.

That was when I decided a clean out was necessary:

Everything: Deleted or Unistalled

An hour later I was playing a clean BG.

I'm lovin it

The actually became harder again and I have to think more- no more charging and barging my way through quests. More like a tip toe!

Well thats my blurb blah blah blah, next please.

Role playing is a lot more fun. The first 5 or 6 times in the game I kept Minsc & Jaheira because I my character had been with them for years. Now I am on to trying many of the other NPC's. The time with Minsc and Jan was hilarious. And I love when Minsc asks the Pirate Lord where his parrot is.

Personally I don't bother with the mods as I don't like huge power. Most of the fun in the game is overcoming the obstacles. It is kind of fun to cream some muggers, then have to try a bunch of different strategies in the twisted rune. Sometimes it can get kind of frustrating - demilich - but you feel so much accomplishment when you succeed. From there you can go back to laughing at the muggers again. The times that I did major quests at too high a level, they were kind of boring. Usually when I get too much power, I start over with a new character.

I have a monk at around 30th level that wins major fights in a few seconds. He is in the elven forsest, and I can't bring myself to finish the game with him. I have had much more fun going through Jon's dungeon about a million times with the different classes.

Those are my thoughts.

BTW, Right now I am finally trying Keldorn, Yoshimo, and Anomen in the same party. Some pretty interesting dialogue. Boy is that Anomen is a prick!

@Baked Goods, you are giving misinformations to the newcomers.

Of course if you pick the Antipaladin, install the Item Mod,
and maybe take Valen (that even Wes' fans consider too powerful, you say Bodhi,
I assume you mean Valen), you may find the game easier in some points.
But if you just install the SolaMod, with all the components,
(maybe with the exception of the random encounter, JUST to gain less
cash),improved AIs and encounters, and Ascension, the game *IS HARDER*.

There's NO arguing about this point.
Nothing is gained, and enemies are tougher.
I can't believe you found Improved Irenicus or the Improved Twisted
Rune easier than the original versions.
It's simply totally untrue. They act *smarter* and *use* their equipment.

If you find the game more fun without those, it's another thing.

power gaming is fun too....

i made bun bun so i can explore dialogs in relationship mods easily and comfortably, taking any party mix i wanted to and keep party alive... but for a while i did something completely different....

cheesing the wes packs...

for example, i had a blast figuring out cheesy ways to take out improved twisted rune...can be done via inc cloud triples cast on self, thus killing the magi wielder without ever seeing her...she is not immune to elemental damage...

thanks to alson and littiz and my own special twists you can cheese eclipse...

telly field, regen and stacked hardiness via wish spell...

so really powergaming, especially if you have been on this board long enough to have hundreds of posts in your credit, can still be fun...

and of course i am very much looking foward to keto, and the bioware flirt packs...relationship mods are still my fav...

say, i wonder when juna will be out...a new sick and evil mod in the works....

and see my post about kelsey and bards...see below...i can still cheese with the best of them....

Hmmmm, after reading my post again- sorry about the Bhodi Valen mixup, it happens (I'll edit it soon).

Originally Posted By Littiz

I can't believe you found Improved Irenicus or the Improved Twisted

What, sorry don't remember saying that. (is that from another of my posts, I doubt that though)

Both these encounters *are* harder than the originals, it would be a bit stupid to make easier versions.

Everything you said is true, aside from being a little snarky about it. You focused on encounters I didn't even mention and missed the point of what I was trying to say (thats probably due to the fact that I wasn't very specific).

Heres the long winded approach:
BGII is approximately 100 hours of gameplay (being very general here), all the improved encounters put together represent very little of the total game time (even if you re-load heaps). Therefore the majority is made up of travelling and fighting other battles and doing other quests. While the mods make most things more difficult they focus specifically on a few encounters. Once a strategy is figuered out these are not that much harder than the originals (that is what makes them so hard in the first place (think how hard demi was before you figured it out)). Therefore with the party I mentioned before, the 'rest' of the game is an absolute joke and pretty boring- there was no need to get tactical, just send in Valen to level drain the run in a chop to bits whatever is left. Over the top power is available to complete the improved encounters but is way too much for the rest of the game- the majority.

I had everything installed to make the game as hard as possible and *yes* the Twisted Rune etc are harder- There's NO arguing about this point but with all the extras (such as Anti-Paladin and Valen etc) the majority is too easy- 10 hard battles in a game of 100 hours, now thats easy.

It's simply totally untrue. They act *smarter* and *use* their equipment.

No kidding, but we've new equipment of our own and are also smarter (thats why you'd install the Mods, isn't it - beef things up a bit).

Right you can quote me on this......
I found the game too easy and bloody boring (even though I am a power gamer by nature) with the exception of about 10 encounters, it is my opinion that this is unbalanced and takes away from the game.
I'm not slagging the Mods, they are great and offer a challenge and I had fun for a while destroying everything- do try em.

Thats my opinion, none of what I have said is "misinformation" as it is my view! (ignore the Bhodi Valen thing). Isn't that what this forum is about?

Phew, that my longest post, I hope it clarifies things and we can offer our opinions without being misquoted and chopped down.

yeah, youre right, with a little tactical sense even wes mods can be intelligently planned and you can clean up, and we are talking about 10 or so "new" battles out of hundreds of encounters, and its just not as much fun tactically anymore...

thats why i play for relationship mods now...

we all still remember the first time we saw a dragon, and went "i am suppose to fight THAT!!!!"

i mean the first time was the best time, but you gotta give credit where due, wes tried to make a few battles much harder, to give people something to look foward to, and its just too much work to fix every battle in the game....and a huge download...

and he is just one guy after all...

but really, i really appreciate his added tactical encounters, the random encounters in athlanka at night, the group you encounter can be tough to beat at early levels,,, and even at high levels, i often lost a npc due to the spell sequenced flame arrow...

and i am sure someday wes will release even more tactical goodness to the game, unless he gets even more into icewinddales 2 modding, hope not....

@Baked Goods:
No, you didn't say nothing specific about the improved encounters,
but your post gave the impressions that the mods are all about
making the game easier, while the opposite is true.
See Screaming Johny's replay...

Anyway, still I think you are wrong on some points.
The new Sola_Mod makes the Sahuagin city WAY harder than before.
Not to speak about the MindFlyers and Beholders lair...
These aren't specific battles, they are actually a large part of the
game.

My advice for you is to install the Sola_Mod, but NOT the Items mod nor
Valen, and take a party like you would in the original game.
This way you'll have the hardest possible setting.

Just a reminder to keep things friendly. Let's avoid the accusations, and focus instead on the game. Thanks.

I've been as friendly as possible, it's clear from my posts.
I had already said these things to Baked Goods once, and got no reply.

No problem at all, but see, there are people who work months to make
a good mod, I'd like if they would keep this up.
If one doesn't like a mod, he's free to state his opinion, but we
should at least avoid giving erroneous informations about what mods do,
to people who might be interested in trying them.

It's just minimal attention towards mod makers.

@Baked Goods: friends, anyway?

@ BakedGoods:

Watcher's keep hasn't been touched by Wes or anyone...even the dragons there have original BG2 ai (one of them can't even physically reach your party if you stand on the stairs). The only differences occur with monsters whose script has been changed anyway (mindflayers and demon knights).

I would agree with you that Valen is over- powered although I've never tried her for very long because of the annoying hide in shadows/detect traps script she had (I think this has been changed though) -- i'm currently trying out the rebalanced shapeshifter stuff and its turned Cernd into a wrecking crew much in the same way I think Valen would be. My advice -- ditch Valen!

If you prefer BG2 'classic' then by all means carry on...personally I can't see how you'd find it harder though. SotM, FoA, CF etc all easily within reach in chapter 2, people finishing SoA in under 10 game days, soloing a beast master, cloud killing beholders that just sit there etc etc. Its a doddle IMHO. Each to their own...

My advice for you is to install the Sola_Mod, but NOT the Items mod...

Good advice, something that anyone who is unfamiliar with the mods should consider, if BG isn't what it used to be, download the mods and unselect all the 'uber' sections such as Valen.... if you want an extra challenge. I installed all mods, many of which balanced out the extra difficulty (item mod etc).

should at least avoid giving erroneous informations about what mods do,

I hope I havn't been giving the wrong impression to other forum users, just giving my personal experience-

I hope that from our pubescent *****ing that other forum users have a broader perspective of the mods we discussed in our gentlemanly manner over our mulled wines.

@Littiz: Friends? of course!

Watcher's keep hasn't been touched by Wes or anyone

I didn't know that, probably why it was so easy with team uber.

My advice -- ditch Valen!

Yip, doneski. I am a little annoyed that there are no evil thiefs in BGII.

@Fable: sorry for my part in this 'friendly' discussion- it takes two to tango

Right, time to get back to my weakling mage party currently sucking my life away

I'm happy to see that some of you (partially) agree with me.....