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I'm sorry to join in the war over who's better, but god damn it, it's SOOOO this guy. Mages are very powerful allies, Edwin proves that point, but are physically weak and fail in combat. A Mage/Fighter can cast powerful spells at attackers, taking them down to 'near death' and finish them off in actual combat fighting. Who needs anyone?
You can get your statistics to
str: 21
dex: 18
con: 18
int: 18
wis: 18
cha: 18 and all of them are useful and make an ultimate fighter/mage. No-one can take him on and a romance with Viconia adds great spice. Come on, you know you wanna say it, Fight/Mage rules (plus TWO strongholds, come on ++ in quarterstaff and ++ in two handed sword and ++ in two handed weapons. I do travel with a group, but none of them are vital, just useful, I do the most damage. So support you half-elf F/M, because they deserve it

Kieran_Frost

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"Men who crave power, and recieve it, look back over the mistakes of their lives, pile it all together and call it destiny."

if you create this character. how can you get strength to 21?

and fighet/mage doesn't need wisdom to be 18 anyway, he just doesn't need it. it can be as low as 3 and doesn't make any difference in the game

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Mizuno is a Proud Member of the Brotherhood of the Woods

No offense, but with those stats, any class can dominate.


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President of the World Alliance for the Advancement of Me (W.A.A.M.)

Originally posted by mizuno:
if you create this character. how can you get strength to 21?

and fighet/mage doesn't need wisdom to be 18 anyway, he just doesn't need it. it can be as low as 3 and doesn't make any difference in the game

Maybe those are "after items" stats (like with girdle of whatever strength?). Still this high wisdom is unexplainable, IMHO.



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[url="http://mishiksplace.homestead.com"]Mishik the mighty wizard slayer[/url]

Originally posted by Mishik:
Maybe those are "after items" stats (like with girdle of whatever strength?). Still this high wisdom is unexplainable, IMHO.

if you say so, my ranger/cleric might be better.
originally:
strength:18/91
dex:18
con:18
int:6(who cares!!)
wisdom:18
charisam:16

with the crom my strength could be 25 and some items for charisam could be above 20. after the collecting tears of bhaal, my wisdom could be 19(which makes very good cleric!!!!!

[This message has been edited by mizuno (edited 03-26-2001).]

Originally posted by mizuno:
if you say so, my ranger/cleric might be better.

with the crom my strength could be 25 and some items for charisam could be above 20. after the collecting tears of bhaal, my wisdom could be 19(which makes very good cleric!!!!!

[This message has been edited by mizuno (edited 03-26-2001).]

I did not say that fighter/mage is better than anything else (I still cannot understand the point of such discussions). And yes, ranger/cleric is a very powerful combination

The other explanation I have for such high stats is SK, but then anyone can be a god

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[url="http://mishiksplace.homestead.com"]Mishik the mighty wizard slayer[/url]

well ididn't say my ranger/cleric is better than his fighter/mage either, at least i didn't meant it,.

what i really meant was my stats might be more partical and effective for a character like mine. (of course i didn't use SK to add points, it's no point, since more int doesn't make my character a bit better and 16 charisam is good enough.

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Mizuno is a Proud Member of the Brotherhood of the Woods

I disagree on several points.

1 - Why a 1/2 elf? Go with a pure elf and get better sight, saves against certain spells, and +1 THAC0 in longbow and longsword. IMHO the only reason to be a 1/2 elf is as a bard because they are at least better than a human (your only other option)

2 - There was a time in BG1 when I swore by elven fighter mages, but I came to realize something. My spells weren't as effective (caused less damage or last for a shorter time). There are 6 characters you can play with, there really isnt a need to double up on the four basic food groups (fighter, mage, cleric, theif) just for one character.

3 - Playing as one is agonizing since it takes so much more time to level up. There is nothing worse than getting this cool new magical weapon, but having 250k more xps to get before your next prof. Or waiting for the next level spells.

4 - In BG2 you wont be able to cast from memory those high level spells. Sure, in the expansion things will be better since even a multi mage will be able to cast 9th level spells, but they will always be cast less oftun.

5 - Then there are those stats... Instead of 3 vital stats for the fighter (str, dex, and con) or 2 vital stats for the mage (dex and int) you now have 4. Since I don't want to be totaly clueless (low wis) or but ugly (low char) There aren't enough points to go around.

I'm not trying to flame you. If you love the F/M then by all means enjoy your game, its just not my cup of tea.

cheers

Originally posted by Ajax:
I disagree on several points.

1 - Why a 1/2 elf? Go with a pure elf and get better sight, saves against certain spells, and +1 THAC0 in longbow and longsword. IMHO the only reason to be a 1/2 elf is as a bard because they are at least better than a human (your only other option)

2 - There was a time in BG1 when I swore by elven fighter mages, but I came to realize something. My spells weren't as effective (caused less damage or last for a shorter time). There are 6 characters you can play with, there really isnt a need to double up on the four basic food groups (fighter, mage, cleric, theif) just for one character.

3 - Playing as one is agonizing since it takes so much more time to level up. There is nothing worse than getting this cool new magical weapon, but having 250k more xps to get before your next prof. Or waiting for the next level spells.

4 - In BG2 you wont be able to cast from memory those high level spells. Sure, in the expansion things will be better since even a multi mage will be able to cast 9th level spells, but they will always be cast less oftun.

5 - Then there are those stats... Instead of 3 vital stats for the fighter (str, dex, and con) or 2 vital stats for the mage (dex and int) you now have 4. Since I don't want to be totaly clueless (low wis) or but ugly (low char) There aren't enough points to go around.

I'm not trying to flame you. If you love the F/M then by all means enjoy your game, its just not my cup of tea.

cheers

1. there is advantage and disadvantage being 1/2 elf or elf, advantage of elf is can have 19 dex. but disadvantage is you only can have max 17 con.

2, 3 .dual clas in BG2 is probably better than single class. as the experience required for lvl7 fighter is virtually nothing compare to what you can have. hence can possible reach the ex cap with lvl7 fighter to make fighter/mage as lvl 7/17, not to mention removing the cap. this will give you spell casting and better fighting skills. lvl 17 mages can cast lvl8 spells and if you remove the cap, you could cast lvl9 spells, and remember a party without a good mage in BG2 will find very hard to survive.

4. in expansion, the focus will probably switch from dual class to multi-class as the ex cap will be up to 8m which is a lot and will make good multi-classes characters.

5. you always can sarcifice one or two stats to make your character to suit your chosen class, in fighter/mage's case, wisdom is totally pointless to have, he can be cluless, but human is not, 3 points of wisdom will make absolutaly no difference whatsoever for the character in the game. and charism for the pc shouldn't below around 14 anyway.

those are just some of my points of view

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Mizuno is a Proud Member of the Brotherhood of the Woods

Originally posted by mizuno:
if you say so, my ranger/cleric might be better.
originally:
strength:18/91
dex:18
con:18
int:6(who cares!!)
wisdom:18
charisam:16


[This message has been edited by mizuno (edited 03-26-2001).]

Hey mizuno,

Don't you care about INT for reading scrolls like PFM?

nope, my other NPCs can read those scrolls for me

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Mizuno is a Proud Member of the Brotherhood of the Woods

mizuno: good points all around, i think we think more alike then apart.

as far as the stats go, I would much rather have -1 AC than 8 to 15 extra HPs. How many times during the game will that -1 AC prevent a hit? How much damage would that hit have cost? 15 HPs will in no way make up for the loss of those extra hits.

also the secondary bonuses favor dex over con. For the PC it doesn't matter what your resurection chances are, if you die the game is over. But with Dex your THAC0 improves 5%. Think about how many arrows you will fire over the course of a game. 5% more hits adds up to be a lot of damage.

If you want to play around with limited wish then Wisdom is very important and to get every option you'll need to have a 16. Plus its just me but I don't like to have any of my stats below 10 no matter what equipment I may find along the way. I have more respect of my gene pool. *grin*

I have no argument with bg2 duals reigning over single or multi classes. This discussion was about the merits/flaws of the multi f/m. In ToB things will get better for the multi, but since the most important levels for the fighter class are 1-9 in terms of THAC0 and HPs I will still favor the dual at lvl 9/40 over 39/37. Thats not to say the multi sucks or anything, but the only advantage they would have over a dual is racial.

The disadvantages of course are the character is limited to weapon specialization and NO KITS. The no kits is the hardest to move past since they have added so much flavor to the game. Given the new profs tables, mastery isn't that much anymore. I have no idea if this will be corrected or left the same for ToB.

just some more points for the debate

cheers

Why do not you play a Gnome Fighter/Illusionist ? That can cast one more spells per level, and has 19 Int. He only looses the spell school of necromancy, it's not a big problem.

Originally posted by Kieran_Frost:
I'm sorry to join in the war over who's better, but god damn it, it's SOOOO this guy. Mages are very powerful allies, Edwin proves that point, but are physically weak and fail in combat. A Mage/Fighter can cast powerful spells at attackers, taking them down to 'near death' and finish them off in actual combat fighting. Who needs anyone...

Hm, your F/M looks good! Maybe I'll take a look at it when I get to finish my current game. Speaking of stats, the stats that you mentioned were altered by weapons and such? Looks good still. My beginning stat for my sorcerer looked like this:

Str - 3 (Would you believe it? Hehehe... I managed to get out of Irenicus' Dungeon, load up a buttload of money and buy that Hill Giant Girdle from Ribald. The only things that I carried are potions, the wand of cloudkill and monster summoning, and the Staff +1, which I occasionally drop off when am using Melf's Minute Meteors).
Int - 19
Con - 17
Cha - 12
Wis - 16
Dex - 19 (?) couldn't remember, it's the maximum.

The only thing that sucks in my character is the THACO. I have a hard time hiting badies!

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Stryfe, mighty (kickass) member of the Council of Mages

well my intelligence for my pure cleric was 4

3 after -1 in the dream sequence
=)

well 1 question why ranger cleric not fighter cleric

I always just play with the stats that I roll the first time I never figured out they really work tho

renyu: the reason for the r/c instead of the f/c is r/c have access to both druid and clerical spells even before the ranger half can start casting spells. since there are many important druid only spells, this is a big boon to the party.

Arwen, look at the last part of the manual, the charts section.

Why a HE F/M multiclass when you can get a lvl 9/lvl 17 Kensai/Mage? With the xpcap, he'll whoop anyone's @$$ anytime anywhere! (IMHO )

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Ro´Jadre - Mighty Kensai/Mage of the Council of Mages

ya R/C rivals the Kensai/Mage for buffing up fighting IMO:

Righteous Magic
Iron Skins
3/4 Armour of Faiths
Blade Barrier
Physical Mirror
Shield of the Archons

veeery nice.

A few points -

19 Dex? Why bother, only 18 gives AC bonus.
6 Int? Illithids will make short work of you.