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This thread wasn’t really my idea. It came out of a series of discussions with others in DF that, at their root, had to do with the subject of community. I think it is fair to say that the people who craft the DF story compose an artistic community. The story itself may be the central activity of the community, but it is the relationships that have been formed and the experiences that have been shared that form the basis of what makes DF special and valued. Unfortunately, some of the communication channels that exist in other communities are not possible here, but it was thought that perhaps a thread that created a forum for community-type discussions might assist in enriching the experience that is DF.

Perhaps it would be useful to say what this thread is not. This thread is not exclusive to the people involved in the DF story. The larger community that is SYM is a wonderful resource. While I would like to keep the content of this thread focused on DF, it would be great to hear thoughts and opinions from anyone who would like to participate. This thread is also not a substitute for PMs or the special interpersonal collaboration that has gone on in DF since it began. In fact, I am hopeful that this thread will help to increase the communication between everyone who participates and the sharing of new thoughts and interests. Finally, this thread is not the virtual equivalent of a gripe session. Sure, there are things that may be irritating, but I am hopeful that we can discuss such issues in a constructive and creative way. In addition, by having an another place where we can get to know each other, I am hopeful that this thread will encourage more direct communication between individuals when public discussion may not be appropriate. I am sure I speak for many others when I say that participating in DF has been a unique experience from which I have gained richly. This thread is my way of saying ‘thank you’ – of giving something back for all I have received from all of you.

If I am understanding correctly (and I am sure I will be corrected if I am not ), I believe the primary reason for this thread coming into being is to improve communication and to allow a deeper level of participation in DF. As more and more authors become involved in DF, it has been more increasingly difficult to coordinate what could be called the ‘DF Experience.’ My sense is that each of us has different reasons for participating in DF and I believe that if we can talk about that the overall experience of writing the story will be more enjoyable.

To start the discussion off, I would like to ask two questions, one about community and one about the story itself:

1. What is it that you enjoy about being part of DF and what, if anything, do you think does not work well in DF?

2. Now that the battle has begun, what are your ideas about how it might unfold and how we might approach the fight with the Abomination?

One final suggestion. Since, on several occasions, people have found it difficult to find plot-related information or other announcements amongst the spam in the DF Discussion thread, I propose that we move that information to this thread and leave the DF Discussion thread for simply hanging out, spamming, and turning Aegis into various four-legged creatures.

Firstly, nice I idea Than, having the 'goods' in here will save a lot of reference time.

Your questions are definitely to the point aren't they?

1. What do I enjoy about the Dark Flames? Well, I enjoy writing with an incredibly talented group of people that seem to enjoy writing as much as I do. Secondly, where else can I write a story like this? No other forum has forum-written stories as unique and consistent as this, it's lasted for such a long time. Finally, my writing has matured, improved and changed (hopefully for the better) with this group, as I enjoy more and more writing Nippy interacting with the entire group. Take, for instance, Thalimon and Nippy's introduction. I don't think I've ever written like that, with as much emotion and passion, ever. Chanak's character helped me achieve that.

2. Now with the back-patting over, it's time for the stabbin'. I can say the only thing that frustrates me (please, please, please don't take this badly, it's a minor thing to me) is that sometimes the old guard will plan what to do next, which is fair enough, afterall, this is your baby, but even if everyone was maybe asked or even told before hand about the major story arcs, we could plan a much better response than knowing nothing about the future.

The second thing is basically about the damn whips. I don't want 'em anywhere near me.

Please, again don't take question 2 as bad, it's just I like to know whats going on too.

A thoughtful post, Than.

The DF has been a cathartic experience...darkness and light, it has drawn things from the depths that have long evaded the pen of expression, so to speak. From the hawk (raptu in my DF contributions) soaring high in the limitless expanse of blue sky to the gigantic horrors of the darkness of the soul, rending and devouring, the magic of the DF has breathed life into old bones. They rise from the clay, knitting together under the power of the spell, clothed once more in flesh and blood...

The deeper one goes, it seems, the more powerful the spell. Across the board, the battle has served as a catalyst for inspiration, and I have watched the writing of the participants change with each post. This mirrors my own experience. What is inspiration, but the opening of a door? Where that door leads is but a part of the adventure...perhaps it will take us to the perpetual spring of dew-kissed meadow in the celestial bliss of Elysium, where the Great Tree sighs in the breeze, silvery leaves playing in the zephyr, the source of the musical chiming upon the healing winds of Thar-illuminiin...

Or perhaps it will take us deep into the darkness of the psyche, to the black heart of evil itself. Wherever it leads, the promise of adventure lures us through the portal, taking us where the arid wind blasts the scorching dunes, revealing the bones of a long forgotten sorcerer buried in the sand. The talisman which lies upon his bleached rib cage glows crimson in the glare of the desert sun, awakened at last after thousands of years of restless slumber...

The place where shining paladins battle the heralds of doom, and druids wield powers primeval, is the stage that is the DF story. The arcane magics of the wizards, bending space-time itself at the beckoning of ancient words of power, sweeps us away to the darkness of the tunnels of the Abomination. Wizard-slayer or silent archer, we are all players on that stage. The power of that spell comes alive when each of us decides to step through the door, and lose ourselves in the adventure. To me, that seems to work best, and I have witnessed it spread to other writers as the battle unfolds...

The spell encounters ripples of resistance when we resist the siren call of it's eldritch embrace. There is something personal in the decision to yield, I know...yet the muse is always there, summoned by the magic of the DF wizards. I have, at times, been rather taken aback by my own muse, and told her to hit the road. I end up regretting that, every time. I should know better, for that muse has always been with me. The power of the DF gives her greater staying power, and on those occassions where I have taken her hand I have been overwhelmed by the imagery that floods my mind's eye. On our own, we can't connect to the magic of the DF. It is through the agency of the muse that we connect...

LOL, I hope that I have answered your first question, Than.

The tension of the battle is building nicely, and I love how things are progressing. The intrigue of the Drow I relish particularly, Than, and I enjoy your work in that area. Iilya is both a player and a pawn in the game of chess that's being played in the tunnels...a dark game, to be sure. You have seized upon that very well.

Plot related stuff: As for Thalimon, he is walking a path that will lead him to the chamber of horror where the Glabrezu awaits. I forsee this happening once the elite of the Drow forces appear. Thalimon will go for the Handmaidens of Lolth...and liberate them of their foul existence. As for the final battle against the Abomination...I am open to suggestions. Either Thalimon's closure of the Abyssal portal occurs just prior to that battle, the cataclysmic shattering of the Drow artifact teleporting him to the chamber of the Abomination...or his efforts coincide with that battle. Thalimon will have to enter that portal in order to close it from the other side, for the Drow artifact is in actuality on the other side of the Planar gate, in a fetid, reeking swamp of horror. The Abyss is a nightmare without end...

I have watched the writing of the other members of the DF with rapt fascination. Let's face it...the Seldarine are cool, and thoughts of an elven paladin enter my mind now and then. The Hand of the Seldarine is terrible and swift in it's exquisite majesty. I can see him in my mind, resplendent in silver plate armor of unsurpassed elven craftsmanship, his Moonblade aglow in his mailed fist. I enjoy reading about T'lainya, the priestess of Corellon, the elven god who deprived Gruumsh, the orcish deity, of one of his eyes in battle. Perhaps another time.

The fact is, I enjoy just about all of the DF writing...I am an unabashed admirer of Gwally's writing. Yshania captures the breathless sequence of events, touching upon the essence of the dark battle; DW plumbs the depths of the spell of the DF, weaving friend and foe alike; Scayde can see through the eyes of a character like no other, capturing the electricity of the storm. I am enjoying watching BS and Nippy unfold in the story...

Then, of course, there is your own writing, Than. I have been meaning to PM you about that...

@Nippy: LMAO! Don't worry, friend...Thalimon and BS will gladly bear the brunt of the whips for you...

Btw, it has been a pleasure writing with you. I love what is happening with your writing.

Btw, it has been a pleasure writing with you. I love what is happening with your writing.

Who? Me? Ah, you've made an awesome entrance into the thread, now that is cool.

You have a point as well Chanak, everyone is writing VERY well at the moment...

Nice thread Than

As to what I enjoy most about the DF, I'd say one of the biggest things that attracted me in the first place is the way the characters played off each other. To me, it seems like you have a lot of different writers, all with their own personal touch in their writing that overlaps each other and creates a really special feel as a whole.As a relatively new guy , I look forwad to seeing the relationship between the newer characters and the older ones grow over time. It takes time to build the kind of chemistry that has become almost second nature it seems between the old guard as Nippy has labeled them . I will say one of my favorite aspect in just reading throygh the different threads was the kind of tounge in cheek atmosphere that pops up. To me, that makes all the difference. The story deals with a lot of different emotions, and there is a lot of serious plot lines, but there has always been a very lighthearted, fun feeling that has remained a constant. Without that, I don't think I would have wanted to be a part of the story, I would have just been content with reading. I have alway admired Gwally's writing in this, not to single anyone out, but just to illistrate my point. Even with all this going on right now, the epic fight so to speak, his spider wrestling episode was a real great piece

As far as what will not work, storywise, I think with such a varied assortment of writers, I think about anything would be possible. It seems to me it would be hard to come upon a situation where somebody wouldn't be able to write well. I was talking to some people earlier, and like I told them, even when dealing with a part of the story I don't feel my writing is up to par, there is always someone around that will be able to compensate for me.

I love the way the battle is building.To me, it's some of the best writing I have seen in the story on everyones part. I enjoy seeing the way peoples characters grow as their writing matures. Nippy is a great instance, his last few posts show real strides with his character. I have enjoyed reading them.

Last, I wanted to take the opportunity to thank all the originals for creating a great place to let loose some energy. You have all been very receptive to us newbies. I was a little worried about joining at first, I didn't want to upset the balance of the thread, but everyone has been very cool. Everyone has created a very receptive and welcoming atmoshpere.

If I didn't mention anyone by name, it's not because I don't enjoy their posts. I can't think of a single member who I don't enjoy reading their writing. Like I said, everyone has a style that melds into the overall feel of the story. That is what makes the DF so interesting to me

Thanks Than... The spam and constant "Great post" comments were becoming to numerous (Wasn't that what the tavern was for originally?)

First off, joined the DF Saga for something to do, and make sure I'm always writing something, so that my wiritng abilities don't go lax. It also lets me Roleplay in more then one forum (Check out the Forgotten Realms forum for Magus' new story thread, and my new character, one of my personal favorites). I really have no gripes about the story for the most part, aside from the fact that is sometimes goes for a couple weeks with nothing happening, then a sudden insurge of posts making it lengthy to catch up, but that really can't be helped.

As for the battle, I'll go where the group leads. As it stands right now, Aegis has only been a member of the Dark Flames for about four days (give or take), so he is still remaining in the shadows for the most part (hence the hanging back from the main group, staying on his own, being distant), though I feel that I'm having him develop friendships (maybe more in some cases ) with a few characters (Nippy, BS, Mysty). I do, however, have a few plans for the future. I find writing just one character can grow to be dull and bland, so like I tried to do with Seir, I'm gonna try and implement another character for me to write (didn't quite work with Seir considering the locale, and situation, and felt anything I really posted for him didn't do him justice). I also have a side plot planned for some visit's from Aegis' past, which might be fun.

As for the four legged beast thing, remember that what goes around comes around....

I really love the idea of this thread Than

I don't think there are adequate words to convey my experience within the DF...but perhaps the following except from Tennyson's poem Ulysses approaches some of what I feel...

I am a part of all that I have met;
Yet all experience is an arch wherethro'
Gleams that untravell'd world whose margin fades
For ever and for ever when I move.

Indeed...I think much of this poem echoes that which the DF is...here is a link for anyone wishing to read Tennyson's work in its complete form http://www.kirtland.cc.mi.us/honors/ulysses.htm.

The story is a place where I can allow my imagination (and inner demons) to roam and find expression. It is a place where I have formed some very close friendships. Indeed, I feel as close, if not closer, to some of you than I do to people who exist in my physical world. Above all, it is a place of community. In my opinion, this is not simply a story, nor is it just a convenient outlet in which to expend free time, it is an extension of whom we each are.

Chanak talks of being connected to the DF by the Muse... I believe this to be very much part of what the DF has come to be. I would add that it is the collective energy...inspiration and creativity fused within the body of the DF that often compels the muse residing in individual writers. We are an organic body, each contributing, in individual ways, to the vital force the story has become.

Like any organic body, or community, when something slips out of balance illness can result. To further the analogy, often when the root cause of disease or illness is understood, it can be addressed and frequently healed. To *know* is the path to balance. It is, partly, for this reason that I welcome a thread such as this. For sometimes unspoken tensions arise, and when these feelings are allowed to fester and grow.....

Given the varying personalities within the DF, the scope and breadth they all contribute to the story... I think it is to be expected that some differences of opinion concerning story direction can result. And yes, the virtual medium through which we all connect can indeed amplify any problems that occur. It can be easy to misinterpret a comment; hence, why I believe the use of smilies to be important. Further, we are subject to hectic schedules and time zone differences. Considering all of this, our continued existence as a relatively cohesive group is remarkable in itself. I am hoping that this thread will provide a very necessary forum in which we can resolve potential conflicts within the limited means available to us.

As both Nippy and BS have alluded, there is something of a gap within the DF. It is something I have been aware of for a considerable time. In many regards I believe this to be the result of age differences. Those of us who have been dragged around the block longer are a little more battered. and this is often mirrored in what we write. Further, some of us also have time consuming "RL" commitments (children, high pressured jobs etc), and I do know that the varying personal obligations of different authors have periodically fueled friction.

Another potential root for conflict can be the battle between individual ego and compromise. We have all, to some extent periodically allowed our personal vision to run against a storyline or plot. My openly stating the issue opens up a rather big can of worms, to be sure..... But this does seem to be the place in which such discussion can occur.

As others have mentioned... the present writing in the story as we build up to the Abomination has been riveting, suffused with extroardinary energy and creative spirit. My feeling regarding the direction of the battle, given the large number of writers and different ideas, is that it would work best to have an overarching plan that is open to individual style and interpretation. I liken this to largely following a recipe while allowing for personal inspirations to create something unique and special.

Ironically, I had followed the old Anomen thread back over in the SoA forum, but I was barely online at the time and it became a task to keep up Then when I stumbled into SYM in June of 2001, I often wondered who these Dark Flames really were - they were constantly on page 1 of SYM Then I made friends with a few of them, namely Dark Poet, T'lainya, Viv and Georgi - since they were the ones more likely to spam the boards It was not really a conscious thought when I joined the DF back in September of 2001. I was suddenly and inexplicably drawn to it, I recall it was about a week after 9/11. I had been following the story, purely out of interest, and I saw the writing take a turn to reflect the real impact that events were having on people, whether consciously or not. I realised then that this was more than just a story, this was a creative outlet, a place to meet friends and share, a community. DF has gone on to become something very dear to me, I have made some of my closest friends here, and we have come through a lot together *hug* I am very grateful for this, more than I am able to articulate.

I have had gripes over my time here. Most have been to do with occasions where I believe that the story is about to run off on a tangent, or it's value to some of the writers may not be appreciated by others. I have also been on occasion irritated by people not having read posts and contradicting previous writers. Maybe I am just fussy, but I do take it to heart when the flow is disrupted, or someone is being careless. I often make this clear in a rant at the time though *rolleyes* Alright, not a nice opinion, and mayhap on some occasions I have misinterpreted, but it is an honest opinion. We have spent a lot of time and energy in DF, and it is a shame to see this apparently wasted sometimes. There is some great talent here, some I believe should be doing this for a living. I don't consider myself of their ilk, so you may ask why I get on my high horse. It is because I care about the DF - purely and simply You only need to glance to see who the real poets and storytellers are - and all credit to you *hug* I agree with BS, the DF compliment each other well with regards to skill, style, ideas, humour and emotion.

Ysh looks forward to a time of relative peace where the older chars can meet and socialize with the newer ones - the DF Halloween thread was very enjoyable to write It is a shame we couldn't have got it going sooner and expanded on it somewhat.

Re the battle. Ysh is a bit at a loss, she is no uber character. Yes, she has a decent spell book, but her spells would be effectively wasted with such a mass of low level creatures. She can shapechange, but she has plans for that later on. Right now she would just like to hide in a corner until the real fodder come along j/k - she is an aspiring peace loving druid and wants back to the forest! The next wave of attack, which I sense is imminent, will be the suicide squads - correct me if I am wrong

@all: Nice to see you all here. Thanks for your input. It is ironic that Nippy should mention the “old guard” since almost all of the original members of the Dark Flames (Loner, Georgi, Jennabard, and Vivien) have left. Only DW remains. But then, I have always thought of her as the matron mother type.

I was pleased, Nippy, that you raised the issue about authors with different levels of experience in DF, because I think it is an important one, one that should be discussed in a forum such as this. I would agree with you that there are probably two or three “generations” of people in DF, just as there are multiple “generations” of people in SYM. I think what makes DF different in this regard is that some of the DF members have a vision of what DF is and means. I certainly do, so let me speak for myself personally and let others express their own experience in their own way. For me, it is not so much being a “keeper of the flame” as much as it is being concerned that as more people join DF, the essential spark that makes DF what it is will be diluted or diminished in some way. I am not attached to DF being any particular way, and in fact I am excited about how DF has grown and evolved. But in the past their have been authors who, in their thankfully short stay, have been what I would consider to be disrespectful to the fabric and intention of the story. I think those experiences have made me more vigilant about the dynamic of the story and also the question of admitting new authors in the first place. In short, because I value DF and the relationships that it makes possible, I feel I have a responsibility to model and encourage the types of things I would like to see in DF, such as collaboration, respect, and a feeling of community.

To address Nippy’s concerns further, I cannot recall anyone that I have spoken to who considers DF “their baby.” In fact, this thread evolved out of a desire I perceived from both older and younger members of DF to address the very issues Nippy is raising. Part of the difficulty in planning major story arcs might arise from logistics i.e. trying to coordinate a scene with multiple people. Also, I think many authors enjoy writing surprising things into the story that they wouldn’t want anyone to know about before hand. But in all fairness, I don’t think we had the awareness until now that we needed a better way to be to discuss such things as plot development, story arcs, and the like. The gratifying thing is that when we became aware of the problem, something was done to address it.

Like Chan, I am also a great admirer of Gwally’s writing. He is a talented author who has been a major force in shaping the direction of the story. He also has flair for humor that I sadly lack, but as BS mentioned we all have different talents that support and encourage each other. While we are on the subject of the direction of the story, I would like to publicly acknowledge DW, Yshania, and T’L as well as Gwally for providing leadership in the story and for their support for the creation of this thread. Like BS, I am enjoying the evolving chemistry with those who have been around for some time and the addition of the newest members, who are all great.

My apologies for my "disrespectfully" short stay. I had an interest but due to some of the same gripes Ysh had, the complexity of the character I designed, and the amount of newcomers at the same time as myself diluting things, I found it best if I just stepped aside.

@Ned, I would love for you to rejoin us and I am quite sure I don't just speak for myself *hug*

Originally posted by Ned Flanders
My apologies for my "disrespectfully" short stay. I had an interest but due to some of the same gripes Ysh had, the complexity of the character I designed, and the amount of newcomers at the same time as myself diluting things, I found it best if I just stepped aside.

@Ned: I wasn't speaking of you at all, merely a small subset of people who stayed a short while. I apologize for the misunderstanding. Like Yshania, it would be great if you came back. *attaches himself to Ned's leg, refusing to let go till Ned comes back*

apologies for disturbing the thread

sorry @ all. the thread should be happy.

I'm having a tad of a rough couple of weeks and work has no less than absolutely sucked today. Since I am en route of catching up on lost pages with an intent to rejoin, your comments set me back a bit. again, my mood is subpar and my fingers started typing before I thought about what I was doing.

thanks for the good words. if there's a place for an ostracized drow vampire full of issues, lord know it's around here.


again, apoloiges.


**looks at than** Back foul parasite! There's no blood in this vampire's veins.

@Ned, the idea of this thread is not just to back slap, but to communicate Thantor raised the question what drew us to DF, people responded, and favourably. There is room for this vampiric mist to find it's lost way through the caverns yet Admittedly, you started out with a hard character - for yourself - to write in, because it/he is low on interraction - but the space is still there

And I can relate to the work issues *hug* I have spent all of today recovering lost data from a corrupt company accounts file - thankfully I was successful...I think

I share the feelings expressed by Ysh and Than....

I would also love to see you return Ned. I loved your char. and your writing

Re: apologies for disturbing the thread

Originally posted by Ned Flanders
sorry @ all. the thread should be happy.

I'm having a tad of a rough couple of weeks and work has no less than absolutely sucked today. Since I am en route of catching up on lost pages with an intent to rejoin, your comments set me back a bit. again, my mood is subpar and my fingers started typing before I thought about what I was doing.

thanks for the good words. if there's a place for an ostracized drow vampire full of issues, lord know it's around here.

*big hug*

It's okay, sometimes a person just has to vent Not, that I'm a member anymore, but hey, it said all could speak.

Re: Re: apologies for disturbing the thread

Originally posted by Vivien
*big hug*

It's okay, sometimes a person just has to vent Not, that I'm a member anymore, but hey, it said all could speak.

You will always be DF *big hug*

Keying off of what DW mentioned, I have wondered about the “gaps” or polar dynamics in DF. By polar I mean different poles of a given category like male-female, younger-older, less experienced-more experienced, and so on. I certainly feel that time constraints are a significant factor in this regard. I was amazed that some people can do all of their posting at work… maybe envious might be a better word. Where does one get a job like that? Anyway, do other people feel that any of these “gaps” create tension in the process of creating the story?

I agree with Ysh about the irritation of authors not reading (or at least scanning) what was written previously. I think that is simple a matter of courtesy and respect. Besides, how could anyone not want to read these posts – they’re amazing!

um… of course, I am quite biased…

**looks at than** Back foul parasite! There's no blood in this vampire's veins.

*Thantor shrugs, acquiesces to Ned’s request, and happily attaches himself to Vivien’s leg instead*

@ Scayde: *big hug* I think you have more talent than you give yourself credit for. I am glad that you, Chanak, and McBane have joined the group. It has made a significant, and positive, difference.

So, is there a consensus that what Nippy and Scayde have mentioned holds true for the rest of you? That you feel DF is “the baby” of a core group of authors? If so, are you comfortable with this or would you like to see it change in some way? Inquiring minds want to know….

Originally posted by thantor3
@ Scayde: *big hug* I think you have more talent than you give yourself credit for. I am glad that you, Chanak, and McBane have joined the group. It has made a significant, and positive, difference.

So, is there a consensus that what Nippy and Scayde have mentioned holds true for the rest of you? That you feel DF is “the baby” of a core group of authors? If so, are you comfortable with this or would you like to see it change in some way? Inquiring minds want to know…. [/b]

*manly non-hug*

Thanks, Than. Joining the DF has been an experience that has impacted me in ways which I lack the ability to express adequately. I can only marvel at it all...

That is a difficult question to answer...I don't think it's a negative concept, Than. Actually, I think it's an honorable concept - the "old guard" as it were. It's inevitable that newer members would feel the energy invested by those who have been involved for a longer period. After all, there is a history, and a cameraderie, that is shared amongst you. I don't feel anything negative about it in the least, nor do I feel it is exclusive in nature. New histories are being developed as we write, and new connections made as the writers, through their characters, interact with one another in the story. DW is Thalimon's sister in the story...and she is also my dear friend.

I sensed the energy and the magic of the DF as soon as I saw it on SYM. The possibility of me joining had come up a few months ago in discussions with both DW and Yshania...but I felt the time had not yet arrived. When it did come, it was right...I felt the rain, and the winds of the storm. The DF, as DW pointed out in her wonderful post, is indeed organic, a living thing. Integrating into the DF, and thus the story, takes time and energy invested. The more that's invested, the bigger the return.

I think things are evolving quite nicely...and this thread will help that along by providing a link to the hearts of the "old guard," and the ones who help guide the story along. I think things will change on their own accord, as all living, organic things do.