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Ok, might as well start a new topic with this question, when dualling to cleric, what is best, ranger or berzerker?

I think berzerker any day, more attacks, better THAC0, more weapon profiences, rage makes you immune to most mindspells(including imprisonment, poor Gaxx dies easy), more HP as well if im not wrong.

A berzerker/cleric is the most powerful fighter type in my oppinion, with spells and all that used.

A ranger gets a few extra spells, but i dont want to stand behind casting spells in a battle, i just use spells that affects my strength and crush them with my warhammer instead of being cowardly and cast lightningbolts and such. So what druidspells are so usefull that it is worth the THAC0 and extra attacks, as well as rage?

Oh, and did i forget the goodalignment?

Definitely ranger.

Ranger gets same THACO and HP, it just takes extra XP to get there. And the max level is 1 lower, at which point it doesnt matter.

No more weapon profs. They get the same starting (but see later) - but the berserker can put 5+, the Ranger only 2+ - so what? 3-5 gives you very little extra for the cost. Better to know more weapons at 2+. Plus the ranger gets 2+ in 2-weapon style. What a bonus!!

Hammers? The ranger/cleric is limited to blunt weapons too.

What's worng with a good alignement? If your berserker was good would it make a difference?!

Ranger gets racial enemy.
Ranger gets stealth.

Not sure if ranger gets "extra" number of spells but can cast Druid spells aswell - summon insects is all you need to kill mages.

You could go with an archer/cleric too.

So what druidspells are so usefull that it is worth the THAC0 and extra attacks, as well as rage?

Insect plague - it's a great spell disrupter, is a 5th level spell, gets through most spell protections, and is resisted by very few creatures. There are a few other good ones, like Call lightning (handy for hitting vampires during those street battles) and Pixie dust (superior to mage's invisibility 10'). If you've already got a druid in your party, however, I would go with the Berserker, esp. since you only get so many spell slots to cram your spells in, and if you want to wait to dual at lvl 9, you do it MUCH quicker with the Berserker.



[This message has been edited by Sojourner (edited 03-29-2001).]

I'll have to explain myself.

Rangers/Clerics:

druid spells,
stealth,
racial enemy,
druid spells,
2 free slots in 2 weapon style and are allowed to get 3 in there,
charm animal (yeah whatever),
druid spells,

last but not least: MOONDOG FIGURINE!

That, and the fact that rangers are hella-cool.

All the berserker gets is weapon specialization and berserker rage. Whatever.

Insects/call woodland beings/fire elemental spell - that are the best recomendations to play Ranger/Cleric - especially insects are necessary tool during battles with mages. After that they are just piece of cake.

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Manveru Telkontar, a Proud Member of the Brotherhood of the Woods.

Elen sila Lumenn' Omentielvo

I have to go with the ranger on this one. Another spell he gets that the B/C doesn't is Ironskins...very useful if you're going to be mixing it up. If both are dualed at level 9, the R/C only gives up 1 Cleric level, not a big difference, and has the same base THAC0 and MORE proficiencies if you're dual wielding since he gets the free 2.

Still, the B/C is very good. Enrage is the single best special ability in the game as it makes you immune to just about every disabling spell there is and is one of the few things that protects from Imprisonment.

Spell selection:

level 1:
who cares?
if you have to pick some...
Entangle (great with Ring of Free Action, too bad tough enemies have high saving throws though...)
Remove Fear

level 2:
Draw Upon Holy Might (as long as you don't have Crom Faeyr)
Silence
Chant
Hold Person

level 3:
Cure Serious Wounds
Animate Dead (incredibly powerful at level 15)
Summon Insects

level 4:
Call Woodland Beings
Cure Serious Wounds
Lesser Restoration

level 5:
Flame Strike
Mass Cure
Insect Plague
Picie Dust
Righteous Magic
(I'd go with the first 3 - especially Mass Cure - since there aren't too many spell slots at level 5)

level 6:
Aerial Servant
Heal

level 7:
Conjure Earth Elemental

If we are talking about both cleric and druid spells something more should be added :

-holy smite (very good vs undead and evil creatures)- there is also similar spell vs good creatures but I forgot the name.
-7th lev spell sunray (extremally good vs undead) (you could instantly kill Bodhi, lich, etc. - 1076 hp damage)
-7th lev spell Shield of Archons (and it is all about mages and their "magic")
-chaotic commands (especially when we fight with Illithids or annoying mages with power words)
-Death ward (especially in fights with mages the same reasons as above and - vs finger of death, power word kill)
-Sanctuary is also useful (something like invisibility)
-prot. from evil 10ft
-aerial servants or fire elemental (I prefer fire elementals - immunity to fire)

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Manveru Telkontar, a Proud Member of the Brotherhood of the Woods.

Elen sila Lumenn' Omentielvo

[This message has been edited by Manveru (edited 03-29-2001).]

Natures beauty is one heck of a spell. Quite a few good extra spells do you get as a ranger cleric. If you have the GM fix installed then Berserker cleric may be the way to go, if not I'd go with ranger cleric.

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Proud member of the Brotherhood of the woods.

Ok, the biggest things that change them is ranger having insect plaque (iron skins are good too, butnot THAT good, there are other usefull spells), while berzerker get extra attacks (due to 3 in weap prof) and 1 better THAC0, as well as enrage. As i find this dualclass handtohand combat styled i would prefer the berzerker, you dont have to worry about mindspells in the mayor battles, and can kill most things fast anyway. The ranger can do the same, but can still be dominated and so on, humans have weak minds.

Well, if you want a defensive fighter pick ranger, but i want to run up to any enemy and kill it off fast, not cast spells, i let my companions do that. Mages cant do a lot anyway, not against PC with enrage.

What's with you guys and Fire Elementals. Aerial Servants beat the $hit out of FEs.

I don't think Holy Smite is that good. They always seem to roll their saving throw. At the same level Animate Dead is waaaaay better.
Chaotic Commands? When facing Mind Flayers, use Keldorn. He's already immune to all that stuff.

Of course, I just made the selection I would choose. Eventually, it's all up to you.

Maybe you have the right about Holy smite but this "monsters" cap (5 monsters in one time) makes it impossible to spend all those slots for animate death (What a pity - BG1 - that were wonderful times - general Manveru and his 40 skeletons in battle).

And about chaotic commands - I found this spell very useful - there is always some fool with power word stun, confussion or something like that (almost all mages, illithids, liches and many many more). Keldorn alone isn't able to exterminate all monsters (illithids killed him in my games using some of "death word" like spells - then I discovered Death Ward spell)

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Manveru Telkontar, a Proud Member of the Brotherhood of the Woods.

Elen sila Lumenn' Omentielvo

Just a thing i thought about.. If i cast death ward, wear that cloak that deflects magic,wear a free action ring and use enrage, what can a magicuser do to me then?

One thing, correct me if I'm wrong but as far as I remember when we wear ring of free action we cannot haste ourselves using potions of speed or haste spell. So it could be some disadvantage.

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Manveru Telkontar, a Proud Member of the Brotherhood of the Woods.

Elen sila Lumenn' Omentielvo

[This message has been edited by Manveru (edited 03-29-2001).]

yeah, but can still use boots of speed.

Yes, you are right. With shield of Balduran (or sentinel shield) it is good to kick all bad asses.

Sorry guys I've to catch my bus... See you next time..


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Manveru Telkontar, a Proud Member of the Brotherhood of the Woods.

Elen sila Lumenn' Omentielvo

Alright then, I checked my BG2 final-save. My ranger/cleric had the following spells memorized. Note that he was a 20th level cleric and had 22 WIS (3 tomes in BG1 + 1 WIS in Hell).

level 1:
3 Sanctuary
3 Remove Fear
6 Cure Light Wounds (whatever... )

level 2:
4 Draw Upon Holy Might (got to love that thing at high levels! )
4 Hold Person
4 Silence

level 3:
10 Animate Dead (Skeleton Warriors rule big time! )
1 Dispel Magic (in case something does happen to Keldorn )

level 4:
6 Cure Serious Wounds
6 Call Woodland Beings

level 5:
9 Mass Cure (best healing spell out there )

level 6:
2 Aerial Servant (better than any elemental + invisible until it makes an attack)
3 Heal

level 7:
2 Creeping Doom (Irenicus didn't cast too many spells )

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The Pope, known in the Realms as Gabriel, is a Proud Member of the Brotherhood of the Woods

[This message has been edited by The_Pope (edited 03-29-2001).]

Choosing between R/C and B/C depends greatly on what your other party members are. Defensive R/C with wider spell selection is better for a party which already has one or two fighting-types. B/C has awesome berserk-ability with 0 casting time makes him an excellent fighter, ideal for those problematic fights where strong immunities are needed.

Personally I prefer R/C because I usually have one strong pure fighter in my party making B/C highly inactive (fighter with 10 attacks doesn't need much help). R/C with Sling of seeking is a powerful ranged attacker with high armor class (sentinel +4 in other hand) and ability to make enemy spellcasters useless, summon powerful monsters and throw a couple of powerful combat spells.

Maybe you are right Riike. I play evil (cant be evil as ranger anyway), andit is hard to find a decent fighter except korgan, so i have to use my PC as a frontline-fighter

Viconia has too few HP in myoppinion,im to scared to let her attack, Jaheira can help i guess, but i prefer spellcasting with her, Edwin and Jan can for natural reasons not attack.