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The American Dream Palace (or yet another thread on Iraq)

Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2003 12:35 am
by dragon wench
I thought to post this. I had originally considered putting it in the current Iraq thread, but I did not want to interrupt the flow of debate and conversation going on there ;)

By JEFFREY SIMPSON
The Globe and Mail
Tuesday, March 4, 2003


The American 'dream palace'

The Bush administration has wanted to get Saddam Hussein from day one. Until Sept. 11, however, no even remotely plausible pretext could be found. The attacks on New York and Washington changed all that. Ever since, "regime change" in Iraq has been the administration's abiding objective.

Alliances were sundered in its pursuit. Countries such as Turkey were bribed -- thus far, unsuccessfully. Publics around the world seethe with anti-war and anti-American sentiment. Sympathy for the U.S. plunges everywhere. Even supportive governments such as Tony Blair's endure internal splits. It doesn't matter. Washington's "war party" wants Saddam Hussein, and nothing will stop them.

Last week, Jean Chrétien evinced surprise that "regime change" was the objective. Surely it was disarmament through the United Nations, he said.

The Prime Minister must have been either kidding or ill-informed. He had been told by some -- but not all -- of Canada's top diplomats of the Bush administration's real intentions.

He could have read George W. Bush's lips. He could have studied the hawks, Likudniks, evangelicals and conservative ideologues around Mr. Bush -- plus the supporting chorus of right-wing "might makes right" U.S. commentators -- to discern the administration's real intentions.

Iraqi disarmament alone was never the objective of the "war party." The UN gambit has been an elaborate camouflage to make it appear as though the U.S. really wanted only disarmament. It didn't matter what Mr. Hussein did; the Bush administration would have found reason for invasion.

The reason was twofold: eliminating Mr. Hussein and kick-starting a breathtaking, hubristic attempt to change Arab political culture. A president who has never set foot in an Arab country has now publicly articulated what the "war party" had only spoken of privately: remaking the Arab world from Morocco to Bahrain, starting with a U.S. protectorate in Iraq.

Mere disarmament would never have sufficed to kick-start the long-term objective of the "war party." The whole purpose of replacing Mr. Hussein's regime with one tutored by the U.S. was to send a shock throughout the Arab world -- and maybe to Iran, that other country so maladroitly linked by the ideologues to the "axis of evil."

The fall of Mr. Hussein would signal that no country could defy the United States. No country could harbour terrorists. Even a country with such unproven links to al-Qaeda as Iraq would be a target.

Arab countries -- with their corrupt leaders, secret police, fire-breathing mullahs, sclerotic economies and "dream palace" politics that underscored victimization and resentment instead of modernity and progress -- would change, and for the better, once their publics witnessed the U.S.-led transformation of Iraq.

Mr. Hussein's fall would show Palestinians that they must stop drawing comfort from "rejectionist" states that dream of eliminating Israel. The shock would bring them around to negotiating with Israel, largely on Israel's terms, the precise strategy of Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and his U.S. supporters, including the Likudniks in the Bush administration.

These, then, were the administration's underlying objectives, always apparent but now revealed. Many are dubious, some are dangerous, and all will lead to the perception in the Arab world that there is, indeed, a "clash of civilizations" -- one launched by the West's most powerful country against the Arab world in particular and the Islamic world in general.

The "dream palace" will be one in which the Americans are led by their political and military leaders through unfamiliar cultural territory, using largely inappropriate means toward long-term engagements for which Americans are not prepared, financially or psychologically.

An administration with revolutionary objectives is running U.S. policy. The realists have been banished or marginalized, considered wimps too inclined to compromise.

The ideologues believe they are the terrorists' nightmare, but, instead, they are the terrorists' dream, because they have overreacted. By pursuing "regime change," starting with a U.S. general running Iraq for two years or more, the U.S. will turn even more people against them and provide the best recruiting ground yet for militant fundamentalism.

The shock sought by the Americans, therefore, will more likely be to themselves. Unless, of course, the U.S. does an Afghanistan, and turns Iraq, once conquered, from last year's headlines to today's back pages. In which case, Iraq, an artificial country, will fall apart in chaos.

Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2003 9:09 am
by InfiniteNature
Hee Hee, what we are supposed to be surprised about this,
Damn this article makes me depressed, getting so you can't really have much faith in the government because most of them are scum.

Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2003 10:22 am
by G'Argst
Trust in governments?

Put your trust in 'butter', bullets and gold. They will serve you better in the long run than any government.

@Dragon wench, interesting article. Just slightly off the mark, but interesting none the less.

There is a growing faction in the US of 'Revolutionary Constitutionalists' that are actively striving to bring some reason to the chaos that is currently the Executive Branch of our government. Unfortunately as this rush to war gains more and more momentum our voices are becoming a hollow echo in the void.

Why is it that America seems to consistently prepare future crises for them to 'solve'? Which November was Clinton talking about for withdrawing US troops from Bosnia? What is the current contingent of US troops still doing in Afganistan? Pakistan? Georgia? Why are we sending more troops to the Philippines? Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera......

Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2003 6:29 pm
by fable
Re: Trust in governments?
Originally posted by G'Argst
Why is it that America seems to consistently prepare future crises for them to 'solve'?


I think it's unfair to single out the US in this fashion. Basically, any national government that engages in international relations (and this includes private trade) has a vested interest in smoothing the road ahead. Problems occur when, as in extremely powerful governments with an ideological bent, the perceptions of that road don't match the reality.

And I really think Dubya's administration is preparing itself for an economic quagmire that's going to sink us like a stone. Even if they can cut a deal with the new pro-West Iraqi puppet regime they'll put in place to supply the same oil credits Hussein did for a decade, the sheer cost of the war--estimated at between $4-10 billion dollars for the US--is going to wreck havoc with our balance of payments right after Clinton (who did one thing extremely right) got it all under control. And Dubya's supply-side nonsense does not engender confidence in me, either. It's been tried before, and in every case, it's failed. I fail to see why trying a failed system again on the backs of a stuttering economy is going to suddenly turn up a winner.

Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2003 6:38 pm
by Robnark
Re: Re: Trust in governments?
Originally posted by fable
It's been tried before, and in every case, it's failed. I fail to see why trying a failed system again on the backs of a stuttering economy is going to suddenly turn up a winner.

maybe they just think that no-one's flogged a dead horse hard enough yet :rolleyes:

I suppose people will put their faith in some system, but when those in charge put their faith in equine flagellation, I think it's time to worry.

Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2003 8:08 pm
by fable
Re: Re: Re: Trust in governments?
Originally posted by Robnark
maybe they just think that no-one's flogged a dead horse hard enough yet :rolleyes:
No, I'm pretty sure these are the kind of zealots who know that what they believe is true, even though it's been proven false numerous times, before. In fact, each failure only seems to raise the need for vindication.

Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2003 10:25 pm
by G'Argst
Follow the money

@fable; "Everyone takes the limits of his own vision for the limits of the world." - Arthur Schopenhauer

The economics that you and I hold to are not the same ones the international bankers hold to. As long as we focus on the horse they are free to make off with saddle and bridle at will.

Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2003 11:02 pm
by fable
Re: Follow the money
Originally posted by G'Argst
@fable; "Everyone takes the limits of his own vision for the limits of the world." - Arthur Schopenhauer

The economics that you and I hold to are not the same ones the international bankers hold to. As long as we focus on the horse they are free to make off with saddle and bridle at will.


And the game called politics is simply a matter of finding different ways to get those voters' short attention spans refocused on the horse. ;)

Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2003 8:47 am
by fable
I found this exchange very interesting last night in the press conference Dubya held. This is an exact transcription:

Q: ''The regime is still there in Hanoi, and it hasn't harmed or threatened a single American in the 30 years since the war ended. What can you say tonight, sir, to the sons and the daughters of the Americans who served in Vietnam to assure them that you will not lead this country down a similar path in Iraq?''

Bush: ''It's a great question. Our mission is clear in Iraq. Should we have to go in, our mission is very clear: disarmament. And in order to disarm, it will mean regime change. I'm confident we'll be able to achieve that objective, in a way that minimizes the loss of life.''

It will be interesting to see if the media are allowed in to measure how much of that "loss of life" actually applies to average, ordinary Iraqi citizens, who will be the ones hit by all the missiles and munitions fire. Of course, if media coverage is orchestrated the way it was in the Gulf War, we won't see or hear a thing about the Iraqi side.

Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2003 11:02 am
by Ode to a Grasshopper
I found a series of rather interesting lecture notes of an upcoming lecture in my Foundation unit concerning the war on Iraq. I'm not sure how Australian copyright laws apply to it, though, so I probably shouldn't post it until I know if it's okay.
I suspect that as long as I acknowledge that credit for the notes goes to my lecturer, and I'm not profiting from sharing them, then it's okay, but I'm not sure.
Not to give too much away (I'll see if I can post the notes in full later, when I have the chance to check the copyright laws), isn't it interesting that we saw a marked increase in attention to Iraq from the Bush administration so soon after November 2000, when Iraq switched from the US dollar to the Euro? Iran, which I believe is an OPEC nation, also seems to be heading towards a switch to the Euro, or at least has switched most of the reserves in it's banks to the Euro. Given that the Euro is strengthening, in contrast with the US dollar, it seems quite likely that we'll be seeing quite a few of the OPEC nations switching to the Euro in the not-too-distant future.
Not to start the usual flame wars off again, but this also ties in rather neatly with many conspiracy theorists who claim the Bush administration knew in advance of the 9/11 hijackings and allowed them to happen in order to invade Afghanistan, a point the notes also make.
Apologies if this has been raised before, and if the mods think this is too inflammatory then they are of course welcome to remove parts or all of it.

Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2003 11:11 am
by dragon wench
@Ode,
sounds very interesting.....
If the copyright laws are a go I look forward to seeing those notes. Should the topic prove too inflamatory I would appreciate your PMing them to me if possible. Thanks :)

Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2003 4:03 pm
by fable
Not to give too much away (I'll see if I can post the notes in full later, when I have the chance to check the copyright laws), isn't it interesting that we saw a marked increase in attention to Iraq from the Bush administration so soon after November 2000, when Iraq switched from the US dollar to the Euro?

That was the same year that Iraq finished paying reparations to the US for the Gulf War, in the form of oil credits. Quite a few "coincidences" hang on this.

Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2003 2:33 am
by Tamerlane
Originally posted by Ode to a Grasshopper
I'm not sure how Australian copyright laws apply to it, though, so I probably shouldn't post it until I know if it's okay.


You should be able to post excerpts provided you show a URL.

I have a bunch of obscure links, including the copyright one, actually it was an extension from the website I've bookmarked.

I doubt someone will bother hunting you down if you post something however ;)

Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2003 6:55 am
by Ode to a Grasshopper
The trouble is it's on a webpage you need a Murdoch-assigned password to access, and as it's in .pdf form you can't cut and paste the relevant bits.
DW seems to have looked into a lot of the points the notes raise already. Maybe she'll have seen where they were headed and be kind enough to share her conclusions...

Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2003 8:55 am
by fable
Originally posted by Ode to a Grasshopper
The trouble is it's on a webpage you need a Murdoch-assigned password to access, and as it's in .pdf form you can't cut and paste the relevant bits.


You could try taking a screenshot of it, and post a link to that.

Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2003 11:18 pm
by Ode to a Grasshopper
I just tried posting the notes in a .zip file and they got rejected as being too large. :mad:
As my email seems to be down (hence I can't send them to anyone yet) and I'm not computer literate enough to take screenshots :o then just wait until I can sort something out.

EDIT-Now that that's been done, these notes are entirely the work of Professor J. D. Frodsham, and are not to be used for profit yada yada yada.
I believe he backs his claims (the claim that the Bush admin. knew in advance about 9/11, at any rate) up in the lecture, however I have not had this lecture yet and hence am only going on the word of my best friend, who did the same course last year.
If so I'll probably post more once I learn it.

Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2003 11:26 pm
by Tamerlane
Originally posted by Ode to a Grasshopper
As my email seems to be down (hence I can't send them to anyone yet) and I'm not computer literate enough to take screenshots :o


I've got a few decent screenshot programs, which I can't seem to find anymore on the Internet. Email it to me sometime soon, and I'll see what I can do.

If you spam my Inbox, I will hunt you down... :D

Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2003 11:36 pm
by Ode to a Grasshopper
Originally posted by Tamerlane
I've got a few decent screenshot programs, which I can't seem to find anymore on the Internet. Email it to me sometime soon, and I'll see what I can do.

If you spam my Inbox, I will hunt you down... :D
Like I said, I can't seem to get through to my email right now.

I spammed your inbox all last night...ermm, no, wait a minute... :D

Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2003 12:20 am
by Tamerlane
Ok, here are Ode's notes. They don't go down well with me, but then again its an Art unit and its designed to initiate discussion. ;)

First one

Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2003 12:23 am
by Tamerlane
Second page I guess ;)