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Imported character HPs

Posted: Sun May 11, 2003 4:08 pm
by UncleScratchy
I just finished BG1 and imported my main char into BG2. He lost almost half his hp's!! Just before the final battle in BG1 he had 89 hps but when he showed up in BG2 he had about 43 hps. Is this typical or did I get hosed? I went into SK and it shows his base hps as something like 11 - 13. Even BG2 Immy starts out at 41 base hps. This sure seems wrong for a level 8 fighter with 19 constitution. Of course I intend to hack him in SK so get my 89 points back. Anyone know if this is a import glitch?

Posted: Sun May 11, 2003 5:14 pm
by nephtu
Hmm...

Some of the effects could be level loss - I don't think you bring all your EXP across for a ToTSC maxed character. I've only imported one & they seemed to come across ok, except for that & the faction reset - which is intended, I believe.

Bu then, I've been wrong about other things :)

Posted: Sun May 11, 2003 9:56 pm
by VonDondu
When you import a character into BG2 from a BG1 Final Save, the character's experience is reset to 89,000 points and his level is adjusted accordingly. Perhaps his hit points are also rerolled at that time. That's the only thing I can think of to explain the discrepancy. I haven't imported many characters into BG2 from a BG1 Final Save, but I've never had any problems like that.

Posted: Mon May 12, 2003 5:34 am
by garazdawi
I thought it was reset to 161000 b/c that was the max in TOSC... not sure though...

Posted: Mon May 12, 2003 7:02 am
by UncleScratchy
Originally posted by garazdawi
I thought it was reset to 161000 b/c that was the max in TOSC... not sure though...


Yes, BG2 reset the characters exp pts to 161,000 from the 215,000 plus points he had in BG1, but the new points was still enough for him to remain at level 8 fighter. Even so, one wouldn't expect a 40 hp difference in just one level. The problem seems to be in how BG2 is establishing his base hps - essentially resetting him at the base hps of a level 1 fighter. Perhaps it has something to do with the ex-cap remover in BG1?

I was hoping to continue the saga from BG1 with most of my original team - Kivan, Yeslick, Kagain and Immy as a level 10 thief dualed to mage. I intended to clone these guys into a mp game using their BG1 portraits and soundsets and just build them in SK with the end game exp points they had.

Posted: Mon May 12, 2003 7:21 am
by paulsbo
Does this happen every time you import him? Or did it happen just the one time? Or did you only try it once?

Posted: Mon May 12, 2003 7:28 am
by Minerva
I think it happens when you import the character from Final Save. I often use "Export" characters near the end of the game, because I've got bug during the battle in Ducal Palace.

Another way is copy Save files from any of your Saved games and paste it in the Save holder of BG2.

Posted: Mon May 12, 2003 11:24 am
by VonDondu
I just imported a character into BG2 from a BG1 Final Save. Something strange happened.

I copied the saved game ("Final-Save") to my BG2 Save folder before I imported the character. The orginal BG1 character was a multi-class 9th Level Fighter/11th Level Thief with about 640,000 experience points. She had 75 base HP plus 45 Constitution bonus HP (CON 18) for a total of 120 HP. When I imported her into BG1, she dropped in level to a 7th Level Fighter/8th Level Thief with 161,000 experience points. However, her base HP remained the same at 75 HP. She received 30 Constitution bonus HP for a total of 105 HP.

I thought maybe the difficulty setting had something to do with that. When I imported the character, BG2 was set to Normal Difficulty (not Core Rules). I thought maybe that's why the character's HP weren't rerolled or reduced to comply with the rules. To test that theory, I changed the difficulty setting to one step above Core Rules and imported the character again. The result was the same: 75 base HP.

Apparently, there are some bugs in the code.

Posted: Mon May 12, 2003 3:22 pm
by UncleScratchy
Originally posted by paulsbo
Does this happen every time you import him? Or did it happen just the one time? Or did you only try it once?


I retried importing him from both the final save and from an exported char file made just before the final battle. In both cases his hps were screwed up. So I tried Minerva's idea and imported the entire saved game and then imported the main char from that save into my new mp game. This time his hp's were okay but with the usual loss of exp points back down to 161000. Then, using the mp games pre-create character functions and SK I made BG1 dopplegangers of my main char and Immy and started a mp game with two main chars and two Immys. Saved that and then went back into SK to hack the real characters to have the same stats as the dopplegangers at the end of BG1. This insured that none of my starting setting were hosed up. Transfered the mpsave to single play save and restarted the game. After doing a final comparison of the chars I delete the two dopplegangers. Now I have my main char with pretty much the exact stats he should have and I have a single class Immy as a level 10 thief. Did Jon's dungeon with just Immy and main char. Immy leveled up one more time to level 11 theif at which point I picked up Yoshi and dualed Immy to a level 1 mage. She made it to level 6 mage by the end of the dungeon. Finally picked up Jaheira and Minsc to act as pack horses and exited the dungeon. My only concern now is whether Immy will still be a dualed 6/11 mage/theif when I rescue her?

Now I intend to transfer the saved game back to mpsave and clone in Yeslick, Kagain and Kivan and leave the last slot open for NPCs. Once that's done I'll copy the save back over to single player. But the bottom line is that the characters are getting messed up really bad when imported from BG1 with either rediculously low or high hps. Part of this tedious process was due to the fact that SK won't work on exported BG1 chars until they've been imported and converted into the BG2 format.

Now I need to decide how to balance this party. Kagain will be the tank, Yeslick the cleric/fighter and obviously Kivan is the ranger. Thinking of recreating Kivan with an archer kit or even replacing him with a druid. Dynaheir was my mage in BG1 but she's supposed to be dead and she was rather pathetic as a mage. I could use Jan as my interim mage/thief or I could dual my berserker into a mage/berserker. I don't want to use Yoshi as I consider him a waste of good exp points and his trap setting is sucky at 35 points. Any thoughts?

Posted: Mon May 12, 2003 5:41 pm
by VonDondu
Originally posted by UncleScratchy
My only concern now is whether Immy will still be a dualed 6/11 mage/thief when I rescue her?
The short answer is, no. The long answer is, the character named Imoen you'll meet in Spellhold is not the same character named Imoen you met in Chapter One. They have different character files (and different character codes) and different soundsets, among other things. The Imoen you'll meet in Spellhold will be a 7th Level Thief dualled to an 11th or 13th Level Mage, depending on the amount of experience your party has. You'll have to use ShadowKeeper again to make her a 10th Level Thief dualled to a Mage. (I usually make her a 9th Level Thief dualled to a 10th Level Conjurer like she was the last time I finished BG1. If you do that, make sure her spellbook conforms to the rules--i.e., no Divination spells.)

As for balancing your party, the best answer I can give you is to make sure you cover all of your bases: at least two "tanks", at least two Mages, at least one Cleric (or Druid), or two if you prefer (this can overlap with one of your tanks, of course), and one Thief (a 10th Level Thief dualled to Mage works nicely, and it overlaps with one of your Mages).

So let's see. You're starting with: PC (Fighter); Kagain (Fighter, although I would make him a Berserker); Yeslick (Fighter/Cleric--awesome at higher levels); Kivan (Ranger/Archer/Druid); and Imoen (Thief/Mage--recovered in Spellhold). IMO, the only things you really need to add are a Mage to take Imoen's place in Chapter Two (you don't really need one in Chapter Three if all you do is work for Bodhi), and a Thief to take Imoen's place in Chapters Two and Three. Just how much you need either of those replacements depends on how many quests you want to undertake before you go to Spellhold. (See the paragraph below.) In Chapters Four through Seven, I think you need a second Mage (in addition to Imoen), but Imoen can handle all of your thieving needs. Jan might fit the bill, but frankly, I don't think you'll need his impressive thieving skills, and I think it would be better if he were a single-class Illusionist. (I don't do much trap-setting or pickpocketing, he can't backstab worth a flip, and his other thief skills are overkill: 70-90% in Open Locks and Find Traps is adequate 99% of the time.) Who you pick to be your second Mage really depends on who you like the most: Nalia, Aerie, Jan, or Edwin. That is, unless you want to create a Mage of your own, or dual-class your PC, in which case, you wouldn't need any of those NPCs in your party to meet your need for a second Mage. But you'd still need a Thief in Chapters Two and Three, so maybe you'd want to bring along Yoshimo or Nalia, anyway.

Are there any other characters from BG1 that you really like? I guess you haven't considered Xzar, Xan, or Quayle. :)

If you want Imoen to be a permament party member, then I don't think you should do a whole bunch of quests without her in Chapters Two and Three. In Chapter Two, I usually do the minor quests in Athkatla (the Bridge District Murders, the Circus, the kidnappers, the Slave Lords, the Twisted Rune, etc.) and about four other quests, including Nalia's Keep, the Copper Coronet/Sewers/Slavers quest, Windspear Hills, and the Unseeing Eye. I save the rest for Chapter Six.

BTW, one of the main reasons why I do the Unseeing Eye quest in Chapter Two is so I can kill the Shade Lich, do the Sir Sarles quest, acquire the illithium alloy, and be ready to fight Kangaxx. When I pick up the Mace of Disruption in Chapter Three, I upgrade it and head for Kangaxx. If you have a Berserker, it's easy to kill him.

Posted: Tue May 13, 2003 10:04 am
by UncleScratchy
Originally posted by VonDondu
The short answer is, no. The long answer is, the character named Imoen you'll meet in Spellhold is not the same character named Imoen you met in Chapter One. They have different character files (and different character codes) and different soundsets, among other things.


That's what I figured. I'll just have to modify her again later on.
As for balancing your party, the best answer I can give you is to make sure you cover all of your bases: at least two "tanks", at least two Mages, at least one Cleric (or Druid), or two if you prefer (this can overlap with one of your tanks, of course), and one Thief (a 10th Level Thief dualled to Mage works nicely, and it overlaps with one of your Mages).

I've gotten rid of Minsc and Jaheira and cloned in Kagain and Yeslick. I gave Kagain the berserker kit but my main char is a berserker also. Should I go with two berserker/tanks or should I change one to another kit or perhaps dual the main char to a mage or thief? The only NPC I have is Aerie but now I need a thief. Dual main char or pick up Jan?
So let's see. You're starting with: PC (Fighter); Kagain (Fighter, although I would make him a Berserker); Yeslick (Fighter/Cleric--awesome at higher levels); Kivan (Ranger/Archer/Druid); and Imoen (Thief/Mage--recovered in Spellhold).


As an elf Kivan can't dual but I can clone him as a ranger/druid. That means he'll level up about as fast as Jaheira would normally, only slower on the ranger side. Is this a good idea with a full party? Perhaps a 3 member party - dualled berserker/thief main char, multiclass Yeslick dwarven fighter/cleric and multiclass Kivan ranger/druid. Maybe pick up Jan or Aerie in spurts if I need temporary mage help until rescuing Immy.
Are there any other characters from BG1 that you really like? I guess you haven't considered Xzar, Xan, or Quayle. :)


I purposely played BG1 with Kivan, Dynaheir, Yeslick and Kagain as I knew they didn't have cameos in BG1 like Quayle, Tiax and so many others. My goal is to play BG2 as if I were able to bring my entire party over without loss of hps or exp pts. I'm not bringing anything other than the gold pantaloons from BG1 though I will sorely miss Kagain hacking away at a mage with Bala's Axe. I played Immy as a straight thief in BG1
If you want Imoen to be a permament party member, then I don't think you should do a whole bunch of quests without her in Chapters Two and Three.


Yep, that's the plan. Immy becomes an awesome mage if you're playing a smaller party and you rescue her early.
In Chapter Two, I usually do the minor quests in Athkatla (the Bridge District Murders, the Circus, the kidnappers, the Slave Lords, the Twisted Rune, etc.) and about four other quests, including Nalia's Keep, the Copper Coronet/Sewers/Slavers quest, Windspear Hills, and the Unseeing Eye. I save the rest for Chapter Six.


I will probably skip most of the side quests except Trademeet (I like the dwarven throwing hammer for killing golems and I have Yeslick proficient in hammers). The two dragon quests will wait until I have a theif with good trap skills. Immy will be able to set 3 before resting as a level 10 theif. I think I'm beginning to talk myself into dualing my main char to a theif.

Anyway, thanks for the good input Dondy, I appreciate the advice.

Posted: Tue May 13, 2003 12:21 pm
by VonDondu
I'm sorry, I'm having trouble understanding your plan.

BTW, I'm sorry about the mistake I made concerning Imoen in my previous post. When you recover her from Spellhold, you want her to be an 11th Level Thief dualled to a 6th Level Mage, correct? Well, keep in mind that the game "lets her advance" so to speak while she's incarcerated. I can't think of a good roleplaying reason for that, but the practical reason is because the game designers didn't want her to be too far behind the rest of your party when you rescue her. You'll have to doublecheck the numbers, but she'll either have 400,000 experience points or 1.3 million experience points when you rescue her, depending on the level of your party. (When I had a party of four Bards plus Aerie, they had about 550,000 experience points each when they rescued Imoen, and Imoen had the maximum number of experience points.) When you edit Imoen, you'll have to decide whether she should still have the same number of experience points that she had when she was kidnapped by the Cowled Wizards or whether she should have whatever amount of experience the game thinks she should have. You have control, so it's up to you.

Back to the issue of party balance. There's a big difference between a small party and a large party. If you have a small party, I think the minimum skill set you need includes one "tank", one Cleric, one Thief, and one Mage. For example, a two-member party comprised of Cleric/Ranger and Imoen (a Thief dualled to a Mage) would fit the bill, although I would beef them up as much as possible. When you play Throne of Bhaal, you'll need another "tank". Sarevok makes a nice addition to the preceding party, especially since all of them are Bhaalspawn. "The Three" against "The Five" makes a nice roleplaying theme. I like those odds. :) But anyway, if you have a large party, I think you need to double the requirements, with two exceptions--you only need one Thief, and for Throne of Bhaal, you need about three "tanks", not four.

I thought you were saying that you wanted a full party of six, and I wasn't sure what you wanted your main character to be. First you were talking about a Fighter, then a Berserker dualled to Mage, and now a Berserker dualled to a Thief. :) I think it's apparent that you can't always stick with the same character you played in BG1 when you graduate to BG2. BG2 opens up so many more possibilities. For example, I don't think I'd want to play a multi-class Fighter/Thief in BG1 (too much dilution), so I might consider playing a Fighter whom I could dual to a Thief later on in BG2. But dang it, when I start playing BG2, I'd rather have a multi-class Fighter/Thief, expecially if I have installed Throne of Bhaal and can look forward to all of those wonderful High Level Abilities. It's a different game than BG1.

If you have decided that you want Kagain, Yeslick, Kivan, and Imoen in your party, then for the sake of party balance, I think your main character should be some type of spellcaster. Kivan should probably be played as a "tank" if you keep him as a Ranger. Archers are great for the first half of BG2 (they make excellent snipers), but they lose their appeal later on, where the focus shifts to spellcasting and melee instead of sneak attacks. I'm saying that as someone who played an Archer and loved it when I played Shadows of Amn. If you want to make Kivan a Druid, I would question your decision because I don't think it suits him. (I don't think you can make a Ranger/Druid, either.)

I think you need to look at your priorities: do you want to keep playing the same character you played in BG1, or do you want to import all of the NPCs from BG1 who don't make an appearance in BG2, or do you want a well-balanced party? Or, do you want to create a roleplaying character who really appeals to you? They're not necessarily mutually exclusive, but each priority can have an effect on the other. So make up your mind, and we'll go from there. :)

BTW, I should probably tell you my reasons for doing the Windspear Hills quest and Nalia's Keep and the slavers, etc. The last few times I've played the game, I didn't have a full party of six, and I was very selective about the NPCs I recruited. In Chapter Two, I didn't consider any of the NPCs to be a "permanent party member". My priority was to rescue Imoen, and towards that end, I recruited whatever help I needed to overcome the immediate obstacles. But I also played a "good guy" who didn't ignore the needs of others, especially if they were helping me. That's why I let Nalia and Keldorn join my party, and once they were party members, I looked out for them just as they looked out for me. Although I can't prove it, I suspect that Firkraag was behind the attack on Nalia's Keep. Windspear Hills is also a "Paladin's Quest". So it seemed entirely appropriate to bring Nalia and Keldorn with me. The Unseeing Eye quest was also "Keldorn's quest". And since Nalia hung out at the Copper Coronet, I thought it was appropriate to do the quests associated with the Copper Coronet while Nalia was in my party. Isaea Roenal and the Slave Lords came back to haunt us, as well. I dismissed Keldorn and let him return to his family when we had raised enough money for passge to Spellhold, and I dismissed Nalia because she belongs in Athkatla. In one game, my permanent traveling companions were Imoen, Minsc, and Jaheira. But even in other games that involved other NPCs, once I rescued Imoen, my party was complete. In any case, the roleplaying experience and "meta-gaming" issues fit together quite nicely. IMO, that's the best way to play.

Posted: Tue May 13, 2003 4:55 pm
by UncleScratchy
Originally posted by VonDondu
I'm sorry, I'm having trouble understanding your plan.


Plan? What plan? My only plan was to continue BG2 with my BG1 party and try to stay faithful to the plots of both games (e.g. Dynaheir is dead so don't recreate her in BG2, etc.). Unfortunately BG1 is a ranged weapon game and BG2 is not and my BG1 party was slanted to ranged fighting. Also, I'm sick of Jaheira and Minsc and of all the banter and subplots with the BG2 NPCs - I don't want to hear their stories for the ump-teenth time. So I've dualed my fighter/berserker to a thief and have Yeslick, Kagain and Aerie in my party for now. In BG1 Kivan was a tank with Spiderbane, Two-handed sword +3 and whatever that really good longbow is. I may keep Aerie for the romance - I've never kept her very long in previous games so I've never completed her romance. Once my main char reaches level 10 theif he'll get his fighter/berserker skills back which were 4 points on bastard swords and two on axes. My indecision is founded in the fact that I enjoy small parties (2-3 chars max) over large unweildy ones. They level faster, get more and better skills faster and 3 party members easily do the job of 6. So for now I'll plod along with my party of 4 until I get bored or hooked. So what to think - two berserker fighters (one dualed to thief) or change one to another fighter kit?

Posted: Wed May 14, 2003 12:52 pm
by VonDondu
To answer your question about Fighter kits, a dualled Kensai doesn't make any sense to me (if you're not purely a powergamer), and I once made Valygar a Wizard Slayer--and it was a mistake. So the Berserker kit is the only one I've used for quite some time. I can't think of any disadvantages, since I don't give my Fighters many ranged weapons. If you really need one (and sometimes they really come in handy), returning throwing axe and knives serve the purpose.

I too used to think that BG1 was a "ranged weapons game". It's not easy to keep one or two "tanks" from being slaughtered if you let them jump into melee all the time. But I had great success when I played the game with a Cleric/Ranger and Imoen (a Thief dualled to a Conjurer). Since there were only two characters in the party, they advanced rapidly (especially since I know how to "milk the experience cows") :) and they were quite effective in melee. I put spells, potions, and items to good use and used the strategies I learned from playing BG2. It was challenging, but my "tank" never lifted a bow (she used a wimpy little sling on occasion), and Imoen spent much of her time in combat casting spells or sneaking around and backstabbing (she also used a bow). I separated large groups of enemies to slaughter them one by one; I used lots of summoning spells to create "cannon fodder"; I softened up large groups of enemies with area effect spells (Fireballs, Glyphs of Warding, etc.); I disabled the best melee fighters in an enemy group with Hold spells (or spells that had a similar effect) or other types of disruptive spells such a Horror, Confusion, etc.; and I charmed a lot of enemy Mages with the Cloak of Algernon and made use of their spells. And of course, I buffed up my own characters and used all the Potions of Invisibility I could find. I'm sure that some people might consider my methods to be a little bit cheesy, but I just consider them to be sneaky. :) What else are two little girls going to do when they have to fight their way through hordes of monsters?

But back to your party. A Berserker dualled to a Thief (PC), a Berserker (Kagain), a Fighter/Cleric (Yeslick), a Cleric/Mage (Aerie), and a Thief dualled to a Mage (Imoen) sounds like a very good party to me. It's interesting that you have two characters who don't get along (Kagain and Yeslick), but that kind of thing isn't unheard of in BG2. :) If you want a smaller party, I would suggest eliminating one of the Berserkers (not one of the spellcasters). For example, you could get rid of Kagain or get rid of Aerie and make your PC a spellcaster. Since those are tough choices, maybe a five-member party is right for you.

Posted: Wed May 14, 2003 4:02 pm
by Ravor
I too used to think that BG1 was a "ranged weapons game". It's not easy to keep one or two "tanks" from being slaughtered if you let them jump into melee all the time.


Hmm, I never had that problem, and my party was:

Main Character (Female Elven Swordmaster)

Khalid

Minsc

Jaheira

Imoen

Dynaheir

Minsc and Imoen sometimes used bows in extreme cases but since I didn't like having to buy Arrows +2 Imoen mostly hung back while Minsc jumped into the fray.

Posted: Wed May 14, 2003 6:08 pm
by UncleScratchy
Originally posted by VonDondu
To answer your question about Fighter kits, a dualled Kensai doesn't make any sense to me (if you're not purely a powergamer), and I once made Valygar a Wizard Slayer--and it was a mistake. So the Berserker kit is the only one I've used for quite some time. I can't think of any disadvantages, since I don't give my Fighters many ranged weapons. If you really need one (and sometimes they really come in handy), returning throwing axe and knives serve the purpose.


Thanks Dondy, that settles that question then. My one experience with a wizard slayer was dismal and you've confirmed my thoughts. I originally put two prof points on axe with the idea that the throwing axe from the Temple district sewers would be his ranged weapon. But now that I've dualed him to a thief he can use a bow or darts as well. May reassign those two points to other areas. BTW the main char quickly made level 10 thief and now has Aegir Hide armor and his 4 prof points in bastard swords (a weapon I never have used in all my previous games).

... I too used to think that BG1 was a "ranged weapons game ...


Playing it with 5 ranged weapons members (2 slings, 2 bows and throwing axe) and one sword wielding tank with boots of speed and wand of magic missiles is the easy way (final battle as case in point) to play thru the game. I must admit I thoroughly enjoyed the break from BG2 and Morrowind when playing BG1 again - it was every bit as much fun as it was the first time I played. Your twist with the 2 char party sounds like what I did with BG2 last time (F/M/T half-elf and Jaheira, picked up Immy to finish and then Saravok joined in ToB. Most fun I've had with BG2. I wanted to see what Jaheira could do if she leveled up quickly and I was disappointed.)

... But back to your party. A Berserker dualled to a Thief (PC), a Berserker (Kagain), a Fighter/Cleric (Yeslick), a Cleric/Mage (Aerie), and a Thief dualled to a Mage (Imoen) sounds like a very good party to me. It's interesting that you have two characters who don't get along (Kagain and Yeslick), but that kind of thing isn't unheard of in BG2. :) ...


Good, that's what I'll go with for awhile. I've keep the save gave just before dualing my main char in case I want to replay with him as a berserker/mage later on. I have to admit that I'm adicted to setting traps. I seldom backstab but I trap every chance I get, especially at spawn points. Yeslick and Kagain should get along fine as I don't think custom characters will leave a party, at least they won't in a mp game. If it becomes a problem I can either lower my rep as necessary or switch over to mp mode. In BG1 I used GameKeeper to give Kagain the Helm of Opposite Alignment, so he was pure sweetheart throughout. I didn't mind the cheat because in wearing that helm he gave up using something much better.