GameBanshee Forums

After a reinstall on my computer I lost my savegame.
So (again) I started over.
I never got past Balmora, so I'm not realy advanced in the game, and I still have lot's to figure out.
I've decided to rollplay, so I wanted to play an elf arches.

These are my skills.
Major:
- Marksman
- Light armor
- Security
- Sneak
- Speachcraft

Minor:
- Short Blade
- Merchantile
- Acrobatics
- Atlatics

As you can see I still need one more minor skill, any advice?
I was thinking of alteration (fun), but that doesn't realy fit my other skills. (shortblade could become longblade)

Also is this a character that's good to play when you're not familiar with the game?

And finally, i still don't understand the leveling up part and the modifiers, could someone explain this to me?

Thanks

Here's what you got so far for major/minor skills:

Marksman (agility)
Light armor (agility)
Security (Intelligence)
Sneak (agility)
Speechcraft (personality)

Short blade (speed)
Merchantile (personality)
Acrobatics (strength)
Athletics (speed)

You need to balance your skill to ability ratios. I find merchantile to be all but useless (you buy cheaper but you sell for less as well because the programmers hosed up the skill). I substitute Illusion for merchantile if you want a second personality skill.

You are heavy on agility but have no Wisdom related skills. I would add something like Restoration to give me the wisdom bonuses (also Alteration and Destruction are wisdom related skills). Also you have nothing that relates to Endurance. So perhaps Heavy or Medium armor (I would go with heavy armor as you can buy training from a master trainer in this skill and really pump up your endurance at the same time. The medium armor trainer is hosed up so this isn't as good of a skill choice).

A good thief needs intelligence as well as speed and agility. You have the later two covered but you might want to substitue one of your agility based skills for another intelligence based skill like Enchanting or Conjuration (you get enchanting points by using enchanted items like healing rings, mark/recall, etc. and conjuration is good for bound weapons like the bound bow).

Here's what I might do.
MAJOR: Marksman (agility)
Security (Intel)
Acrobatics (Strength)
Alchemy (Intel)
Athletics (speed)

MINOR: Light armor (agility)
Speechcraft (personality)
Heavy Armor (Endurance)
Restoration (Willpower)
Blunt (Strength) - some nice hammers in the game

That gives you two agility related skills, two intell related, two strength, and one each willpower, endurance and personality. You can substitute them as you like but I wouldn't go over 2 for the same ability related skills. Don't discount magic just because you are an archer. You still want to be able to use magic to hide, fortify abilities, open/lock doors, make potions, etc. One final thing. There are no Luck related skills so you never get Luck bonuses. Try to get your luck up by putting a point on it whenever you level up and only have one or two bonus abilities. Its really hard to bypass bonus points when three abilities are getting bonuses so when only two get bonuses go for Luck.

Edit: Here's how the leveling and ability modifiers work. As I have alluded to above each skill has an associated ability. So take for example the speechcraft/personality skill/ability relationship. Say you find someone of your own race (or a slave) to talk to. You 'Admire' that character over and over until you've earned 10 levels in speechcraft. It takes 10 levels of a major/minor skill to gain a level. When you go to level up you would see three coins to distribute. Next to personality would be maybe a +4 or +5 modifier because you gained the level up by using a personality based skill. In this case you would not have any other modifiers so I would put one coin on personality for 5 points (due to the bonus), maybe one coin on Luck, and one point of Endurance. You can manipulate how you level up and where you get the bonus points this way. As a thief/archer I would buy the Doorjam spell and get a handful of cheap lockpicks. Find a door somewhere that you can lock and then pick thereby getting skill points towards Security and Alteration at the same time. Once you've gotten 10 skill levels with these two skills you will get a level up with bonuses on the related abilities (Intelligence and Willpower). You can get ability bonuses by using Miscellaneous skills but the 10 skill levels required for a level up must come from the major/minor skills. So if hand-to-hand fighting is a miscellaneous (speed related) skill and you gained a lot of skill levels in it (an easy thing to do with this skill) and you also did the lock/unlock trick your next level up would have bonuses in Intelligence, Wisdom and Speed. Hope this makes it a bit clearer on how this works.

But is magic important to an archer/thief i wan't planning on using it?

Sorry I'm not realy familiar with the options.
If I understand correct, when you level up you get a 2x multiplyer for a stat if you have leveld up in one of them (correct?)
But how do i get bigger multiplyers.

Second, why heavy and light armor? I was thinking light suited my thief/archer better, and fits with the chracter.

Ok, I think i understand better.
It's important to have all ability's (str/agility/endurance/etc.) represented in youre skills.

So I almost certainly ahve to use magic for intelligence and (mainly) willpower, have to think about what to choose then.

I don't think I want to use magic in battle, so I guess conjuration/restoration/alteration will be my choises.

(don't have the game here so I don't know what ability's come with them)

Originally posted by Stilgar
But is magic important to an archer/thief i wan't planning on using it?

Sorry I'm not realy familiar with the options.
If I understand correct, when you level up you get a 2x multiplyer for a stat if you have leveld up in one of them (correct?)
But how do i get bigger multiplyers.

Second, why heavy and light armor? I was thinking light suited my thief/archer better, and fits with the chracter.

You got to me before I could finish editing my last post. See what I added to my first post regarding multipliers/bonus points. Magic is important to any class you play. As a archer/thief (my fav char, I'm currently playing it as a woodelf) you will need to levitate, walk on water, use nighteye, open locks from a distance, heal yourself, cure disease, blind or paralyze opponents, go invisible, chameleon yourself, soul trap creatures, etc. You might not blast opponents with destruction spells but you might want to levitate up to perch where they can't get to you so you can shoot them full of arrows.

Why heavy and light armor? Because some heavy items are very nice like the Helm of Oryn Bearclaw or an enchanted ebony/deadric shied (which you can carry even if using a bow - you just don't get the armor bonus but the enchantment will still apply). I start out with light armor but eventually I want to wear or carry some heavy items and most important you need something to give you Endurance multipliers. Also if you join the Imperial Legion they make you wear their heavy armor or they won't deal with you (you'll be out of uniform).

Roleplaying this game is tough as you will eventually become good at just about every skill (except maybe spears - I hate spears)

I'd recommend alchemy for making your own potions - for healing, levitation, etc. Do you realize your archer looks like the pre-made thief class? I'd say it's a good class - I'm playing a similar one, myself.

I'd strongly recommend training up Mysticism to ~ 35 - for the Mark, Recall, Intervention, and Soul Trap spells.

There is a decent explanation of leveling up on page 26 of the manual.

To sum up - you're able to increase your level when you've raised any combination of your major and minor skills 10 points, ie: you raised sneak 10 points OR you raised sneak 2, mercantile 4, and short blade 4, and so on.

To level up, you must rest. When you level up, you may increase 3 of your attributes. Depending on what skills you raised, some of these attributes get a multiplier. Example - you improved your short blade skill several times, so its governing attribute, speed, gets a multiplier of up to 5.

Miscellaneous skills contribute to the multiplier. To get a multiplier of 5 for any given attribute on level-up, you need to improve:

Major/minor skills it governs by 10 points -OR-

Miscellaneous skills it governs by 15 points

Hope this helps!

Thanks, you have realy helped me out.
I think i get the bigger picture now.
A few final questions, how do you level up?
Do you on purpose level up in 2 or 3 skills alot so you get better multiplyers, and after that level up in some other skills, or do you just play the game and see what happends?

Second: Any advice what atributes I should pick on class creation (when you create a class, you can choose for combat/stealth/magic (that's stealth with me i think) and 2 atributes, any advice for those, or just the 2 you want to use the most?)

Third: any advice for a good sign?

Originally posted by Stilgar
Thanks, you have realy helped me out.
I think i get the bigger picture now.
A few final questions, how do you level up?
Do you on purpose level up in 2 or 3 skills alot so you get better multiplyers, and after that level up in some other skills, or do you just play the game and see what happends?

Second: Any advice what atributes I should pick on class creation (when you create a class, you can choose for combat/stealth/magic (that's stealth with me i think) and 2 atributes, any advice for those, or just the 2 you want to use the most?) Edit: Maybe choose agility for the archer aspect and intelligence for the thief aspect.

Third: any advice for a good sign?

I tend to concentrate on leveling up on certain skills for big multipliers. I usually go for only one or two skill/ability combos at a time. I will 'admire' someone for hours (very boring) to get my personality and speechcraft up really high. This is extremely valuable for completing a lot of quests where you have to either sweet talk or kill someone (peaceful persuasion usually gives you a better quest outcome). I also do the lock/unlock routine over and over until I'm around level 50 in both security and alteration. You'll never have to steal a key again. I buy a lot of training early in the game. If you have Tribunal there is an easy way to make lots of money fast and get some nice starter equipment. At about char level 4 Dark Brotherhood assassins will often spawn when you sleep. They start by spawning only one assassin but as you go higher 2 assassins may appear. I've found two ways of doing this. First, as an archer, get a decent bow and lots of arrows (join the fighters guild so you can raid there supply chests). Now find some bunk beds and hop onto the upper bed and rest. Wait to see if an assassin has spawned (they often spawn in a different area but they will come looking for you so don't save the game here or you could be screwed). If an assassin shows up stay back from the edge of the bed and shoot him with arrows until he's dead. They carry jink swords that poison and paralyze so don't engage with a lousy sword or you will die. Once you've killed one take his assassin armor (light) and put it on (its next best to glass) and his weapons. Sell what you don't need and spend the money on training. Repeat and the next time you can sell all the armor and weapons for even more money. Spend every last penny on training.

The second way I've worked this is as an Imperial with hand-to-hand as a major/minor skill. Get real good at HTH fighting by killing bugs and rats. Now put your special Imperial magic skill that drains endurance in a quick slot (I don't remember what the spell is called but its a ranged attack that sucks the targets endurance down to almost nothing). Now sleep in the open and if an assassin appears zap him with that spell and start fighting him with HTH. He should be knocked out almost immediately (HTH is funny in that first you must beat on something until it's endurance is drained at which point it becomes unconscious, then any additional blows will start to do health damage). This is a lot of fun and very satisfying. Do this a couple of times and your HTH skill will be 100 and you will gain a lot Speed ability.

On your second question are you planning to create a custom character? I don't remember doing this as I think I went with the pre-made assassin kit. Anyway, for your char I would go for stealth and combat. Magic will be more of a tool for you than a weapon.

Q #3: Go for a sign that gives you an early boost to an important skill like personality, speed or endurance. Don't go for any signs that improve one thing but lessen something else. Most sign bonus don't work once you are at level 100 so the effect is negated anyway. Once safe sign is Mage for the 50% boost to Magicka. Even as an archer you will find it useful. My current assassin is under the sign that boosted her speed.

After about 15 restarts this is what it's gonna be.
A wood elf

Major:
Marksman
Light Armor
Acrobatics
Speachcraft
Security

Minor:
Long Blade (sorry, but longblade fits the character better then blunt)
Athletics
Sneak
Heavy Armor
Alteration

I know, I have 3 agility skills, but I just couldn't give up anyone of them.

Let me now what you think.

Thanks for all the help

Originally posted by Stilgar
After about 15 restarts this is what it's gonna be.
A wood elf

Major:
Marksman
Light Armor
Acrobatics
Speachcraft
Security

Minor:
Long Blade (sorry, but longblade fits the character better then blunt)
Athletics
Sneak
Heavy Armor
Alteration

I know, I have 3 agility skills, but I just couldn't give up anyone of them.

Let me now what you think.

Thanks for all the help

Very good but I would suiggest that you give up light armor for alchemy. As an archer you won't be getting hit much by opponents and you really don't need the extra agility related skill. You can find light armor trainers and even as a misc skill the advances in light armor will still count toward agility multipliers. Though I personally find making potions to be boring it is a valualble skill and potions are better than spells or scrolls.

I would suggest trading heavy armor for alchemy. This character is designed to move fast, and heavy armor would slow him down. Light armor will help in those cases where he will be forced to go toe-to-toe. I am currently playing a similar character:

Female Wood-elf specializing in Stealth under the Sign of the Atronach (serious magicka boost, but must rely on potions to restore magicka - not a problem when you know the game)

Major Skills: Sneak, Light Armor, Short Blade, Mysticism, Athletics
Minor Skills: Security, Block, Marksman, Alchemy, Acrobatics

I chose Endurance as one of the prime attributes, to give it a boost (wood elves have lousy endurance).

Originally posted by Sojourner
I would suggest trading heavy armor for alchemy. This character is designed to move fast, and heavy armor would slow him down. Light armor will help in those cases where he will be forced to go toe-to-toe. I am currently playing a similar character:

Female Wood-elf specializing in Stealth under the Sign of the Atronach (serious magicka boost, but must rely on potions to restore magicka - not a problem when you know the game)

Major Skills: Sneak, Light Armor, Short Blade, Mysticism, Athletics
Minor Skills: Security, Block, Marksman, Alchemy, Acrobatics

I chose Endurance as one of the prime attributes, to give it a boost (wood elves have lousy endurance).

But then, how did you get a endurance multiplyer? or did you just dropped that?

Originally posted by Stilgar
But then, how did you get a endurance multiplyer? or did you just dropped that?

You can get multiplyer with any skills you have used, whether they are Major, Minor, or Misc skills. You just cannot level up if you don't use your Major or Minor skills.

So, for example, if you have Heavy Armour in Misc skill and got 10 levels up in this skill, you still get x5 multiplyer on Endurance, but don't level up until you have total of 10 levels up in your Major and Minor skills.

I think that since you want to roleplay your character just pick some skills that YOU think would fit the type of character you want to play, and most importantly just have fun . In MY personal opinion (you don't have to listen to this, it's just there to make my post seem long and important), I would give a LOTR style archer these skills:

MAJOR

Marksman
Athletics
Light Armour
Sneak
Speechcraft

MINOR

Alchemy
Acrobatics
Unarmoured
Short Blade
Armourer (Well he's got to be able to fix his bows when it snaps )

I'd DEFINITELY stick with the alchemy though, it's indispensable.

Why do you all go for athletics and acrobatics? I find I go up in levels too fast when I do this and if I run/jump everywhere, these skill get respectable very quickly even as misc. skills.

Blunt weapon's good (there's some great ones around, though I have to admit it doesn't fit so well with your character) and helps your advancement in lots of guilds, as does mysticism. Mysticism's also good for quick travelling with almsivi/divine intervention (better than lugging those heavy scrolls around) and mark/recall and detecting things like keys. Armorer I take as a major skill, cos it just goes up too slowly otherwise.

So I'm currently playing a wood elf with:
Major: Marksman, Short blade, Speechcraft, Mysticism, Armorer
Minor: Blunt weapon, Security, Sneak, Alchemy, Heavy armor.

I wear light armor, and got a lot of training at the start to get it up to a decent score.

Originally posted by Wanderer
Why do you all go for athletics and acrobatics? I find I go up in levels too fast when I do this and if I run/jump everywhere, these skill get respectable very quickly even as misc. skills.

Unless you're sneaking everywhere, of course. My athletics and acrobatics skills don't increase that fast at all.

Well I agree with you guys on endurance, it's the stat that has to be increased the most in the beginning because of how the game calculates your hit points. This is what I do at the beginning of the game to raise my endurance:

1. Get about 50k
2. Join the Fighters Guild
3. Go to the fighters guild in balmora and bribe the people who teach medium armor, heavy armor, and spear until they are at 100 deposition.
4. Right before leveling I train either "spear" "medium armor" or "heavy armor" 10 levels.
5. I go to bed and get a 5x multiplier for endurance (yeah!)

However somepeople may call this "cheesy"