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I have finished SoA with 1) a fighter and 2) a mage, and gotten to the max XP limit.... still, at the end of the game I cannot cast any lvl 9 spells. Why not? Can't you cast lvl 9 spells in SoA?

And also, when in hell, you get the blackrazor. Is there any possibility to get back from hell and go to the surface? When you kill Irenicus, you can't play anymore...

Both level 9 spells and blackrazor will come in handy in the expension "Throne of bhaal", there is no way back to the surface.

You should try it, it's almost a BG3

(PS watch out, if you play a good character and killed the genie for blackrazor you're allignment changed to evil)

Originally posted by Xschtar
Is there any possibility to get back from hell and go to the surface? When you kill Irenicus, you can't play anymore...

When I first played the game I felt the same way as you. In retrospect, I think I'd gone to get Irenicus in Hell too early and hadn't completed enough of the other quests before I got stuck down there.

It's a shame the game doesn't warn you against this and you realise that once you go to get him there's no coming back to the surface and no carrying on with SoA.

Anyway, in Hell I found I was too weak to kill Irenicus after all, so I started a new game and did it all again and left that last Hell bit till I had completed everything else.

as for lvl nine spells you need to be lvl 18...i dont know if this is in the SoA limit cos i got tob with soa and it applies the higher limit to soa .

Maybe you need a high int to get them? i dont know

i dont wanna sound patronising but have you got any lvl 9 spells memorised? i only remember there being a couple in SoA

SoA has an experience cap that prevents mages to reach level 18, so without cheating you can cast level 9 spells only from scrolls - with ToB installed it's another story.

INT requirements for high level spells were indeed present in PnP, but they aren't implemented in BG2 (only the limit on number of spells per level is implemented)

Actually, you do need at least 18 INT to memorize level 9 spells. But you can still cast from scrolls, even with a low INT.

And incidentally, a bard can memorize level 7-9 spells (thus gaining the appropriate experience) even though they will never cast these spells. However, I discovered this fact when I had one or two mods installed, so this may not be the case for the vanilla game.

Originally posted by JackOfClubs
Actually, you do need at least 18 INT to memorize level 9 spells. But you can still cast from scrolls, even with a low INT.

Untrue again.
INT does *not* affect memorization and casting, only the learning of spells. (as chances to learn and max n° of spells/level you can scribe)

Hey, before blatantly contradicting another poster twice, you could at least TEST how things work in game.

Folks, let's keep the responses on theme. Corrections to mistaken impressions are very welcome, here, but let's keep the personal element out of the replies. Thanks.

To answer Xschtar's original questions, you can't cast 9th Level Wizard spells in Shadows of Amn unless you disable the experience cap. But any Mage 18th Level or higher can learn, memorize, and cast 9th Level spells, regardless of Intelligence. (Note: Characters with INT 8 or less can't read scrolls, but they can't become Mages, either, so it's a moot point.) As Littiz pointed out, there's a chance that you will fail to learn a spell when you try to write it into your spellbook (the chance of failure decreases as your Intelligence increases), and Intelligence determines how many spells you can put into your spellbook. But if you can find a way to raise your Intelligence even temporarily, you can bypass those limitations. From what I understand, the Baldur's Gate series does not follow D&D rules to the letter, and that's probably why some players think that the rules in BG2 are too lax.

Once you descend into Hell, you can't go back to the surface. I've never really thought all that much of Blackrazor (my characters' items don't "make the character"), but I felt it was odd that after you receive all the benefits from the five Tears of Bhaal, all that's left is the final encounter, and you can't play anymore after that (which pretty much mirrors your sentiments about Blackrazor). As Stilgar rightfully suggested, if you want your new items or new abilities to do you any good, you should play the expansion, Throne of Bhaal. Among other things, the experience cap is raised to 8 million points (Mages can be 31st Level), and Mages can get new spells which you can sort of regard as 10th Level spells (although they are treated as 9th Level spells in your spellbook). Best of all, no matter how powerful you think your characters are, the game is always challenging enough to keep it interesting.

Originally posted by Littiz
Untrue again.
INT does *not* affect memorization and casting, only the learning of spells. (as chances to learn and max n° of spells/level you can scribe)

Hey, before blatantly contradicting another poster twice, you could at least TEST how things work in game.

No offense, intended. I didn't think I was contradicting you, exactly. More like clarifying an exception to a rule you might have missed.

I think we have a difference in terminology, though. What you call "learning" is what I mean by memorizing (although "scribing" would probably be a better word for both of us).

What you call "memorizing" I usually think of as spell selection, if I think of it at all. (Sorcerors, for instance, use that same page in the spell book, but they don't really "memorize" their spells. But your term is probably the more accurate for Mages.)

In any event, I was not talking about the chance that you will fail to learn the spell (or write it to the spell book) but the fact that characters with less than 18 INT will not even get the option to write a L9 spell unless they drink a potion.

I found this out the hard way after trying to get Imoen to write a time-stop scroll that she found. Since the Write Spell button did not appear, I assumed she already had it memorized (sorry -- I mean scribed) and sold the scroll. Later, when I wanted her to cast the spell, I found that it was not in her spell book after all, so I had to remember where I had sold it, and go all the way back and re-purchase it.

I don't thik I'm wrong in supposing that this would be very incovenient for someone who was not aware of the issue. It certainly was a pain for me, and If I had sold the scroll in Brynlaw or the Sahuagin city (where the prices are better) I would have been totally out of luck, since I couldn't have retrieved the spell at any price.

EDIT: My comments about Bards should also be clarified. Bards cannot "memorize" level 7-9 spells but they can "learn" them (in Littiz' sense of both terms.) That is, they can write them to the spell book, but they will can never be selected or cast.

Of course, sorry fable and jack, I didn't mean to appear that harsh.

I *think* I'm using the "official" meaning for the debated terms , with the exception of "learn".

In any event, I was not talking about the chance that you will fail to learn the spell (or write it to the spell book) but the fact that characters with less than 18 INT will not even get the option to write a L9 spell unless they drink a potion.

The point I was trying to make is that the fact that INT has no role after the spells are scribed, allows this kind of abuse with potions.

You're right about bards, indeed!
Another glitch of the engine...
Too bad that the Circlet of Netheril doesn't add castable spells to bards...

EDIT:

In any event, I was not talking about the chance that you will fail to learn the spell (or write it to the spell book) but the fact that characters with less than 18 INT will not even get the option to write a L9 spell unless they drink a potion.

hhm, I checked right now while playing, and the option in my game is always present (even for spells of opposing schools).
Jan has just scribed Time Stop with 16 INT.
I'd need the potion only to scribe too many 9th level spells...
Don't know what might have happened in your game with Immie

Originally posted by Littiz
hhm, I checked right now while playing, and the option in my game is always present (even for spells of opposing schools).
Jan has just scribed Time Stop with 16 INT.
I'd need the potion only to scribe too many 9th level spells...
Don't know what might have happened in your game with Immie

Any 18th Level Mage with INT 9 or higher can select the "Write Magic" option on a 9th Level Scroll (aka "scribe", "learn", etc.) as long as he or she can read it. There's a chance of failure, but it can be done. But a Mage cannot read a scroll from his or her opposition school (such scrolls are "redded" out), so I don't see how he or she can select the option to "scribe" it.

Everything I've said above applies to BG2 with Throne of Bhaal installed. I don't think there's any difference between it and the original version of Shadows of Amn, but I haven't tested it, so I'm not going to state it as fact on here. For what it's worth, there are some differences between Shadows of Amn and BG1; for example, I think even a character with INT 8 or less can read scrolls in BG1.

Hmm. I don't have ToB, so that may be the issue.

Or it may be that Imoen was not yet 18th level. Which is probably the case: I usally have a sorceror as my main spell caster and only give Imoen the scrolls for the Exp. By the time she can actually cast 9th level spells, her spell book is usally full, so I'm not sure if I've ever had her try to scribe a spell after reaching level 18. Since the first time it happened, I haven't bothered to look into it further. But, giving her potions definitely allows her to scribe the scroll at an earlier level, which makes me think it is a ToB fix.

Unfortunately, I have uninstalled BG2 temporarily, so I won't be able to check it out any time soon.

Originally posted by JackOfClubs
Hmm. I don't have ToB, so that may be the issue...

I just took a look at an unpatched version of BG2: Shadows of Amn (I couldn't do it earlier because I couldn't find CD 2), and what do you know? Mages who have less than INT 18 cannot "scribe" 9th Level spells. The "Write Magic" option does not appear when you look at the scroll. So there definitely IS a difference when you install Throne of Bhaal. I apologize if I misled anyone.

Two things I mentioned before are the same, however. First of all, Mages cannot read scrolls from their opposition school. That is to say, they can look at the description, but they cannot cast the spell by reading the scroll or write the spell into their spellbook. Second of all, even if a Mage has less than INT 18, he or she can still "scribe" 9th Level spells if you can find a way to temporarily increase his or her Intelligence. (I can think of several easy ways.) So the Intelligence limitation is no big deal, and it won't deter players who are clever. I suppose the reason why Throne of Bhaal changes the rule is because too many players would have whined about it if their characters were too dumb to memorize 9th Level spells. I say, give them what they want.

Originally posted by VonDondu
First of all, Mages cannot read scrolls from their opposition school. That is to say, they can look at the description, but they cannot cast the spell by reading the scroll or write the spell into their spellbook.

hhmm, another change that came with ToB, maybe!

In my game, you always get the "write spell" button, if it's of an invalid school you just get a pop up box stating it when you try to press it.
Jan is even able to cast necromantic spells from scrolls!

After all it makes sense, even thieves may be able to cast spells from scrolls, why not a mage, even if specialist in an opposing school? The spell is cast *by* the scroll, is never really learned nor understood...
Oh, sorry, too much rambling

Originally posted by Littiz
hhmm, another change that came with ToB, maybe!

In my game, you always get the "write spell" button, if it's of an invalid school you just get a pop up box stating it when you try to press it.
Jan is even able to cast necromantic spells from scrolls!

After all it makes sense, even thieves may be able to cast spells from scrolls, why not a mage, even if specialist in an opposing school? The spell is cast *by* the scroll, is never really learned nor understood...
Oh, sorry, too much rambling

Okay, to be perfectly clear about scrolls from an opposition school, when you look at such a scroll in Shadows of Amn (with no expansion pack installed), there's no option to "Write Magic". By that, I mean there's no button for it at all. On the other hand, if you look at a scroll from an opposition school in Throne of Bhaal or Shadows of Amn with the expansion pack installed, there is a button that you can press that says "Write Magic" (which is new to ToB), but if you press that button, a message pops up that says, "Your spell school does not permit you to learn this spell." So you can't learn the spell whether there's a button or not. Functionally, that really isn't any different from the original Shadows of Amn; it's mostly cosmetic. Yes, you can push the "Write Magic" button when Throne of Bhaal is installed, but you cannot scribe the spell into your spellbook, and that was my point. If you want to push the button anyway, that's fine with me. Have at it.

I just tried to make Jan "learn" Wail of the Banshee (from the school of Necromancy) in a BG2 game with the expansion pack installed, and the game wouldn't let him learn it, not even with the Use Any Item ability (which he acquired as a Thief, not as a Mage). Nor would the game let him put the scroll in his quick slot and cast it from there before he acquired the Use Any Item ability; but once he had the Use Any Item ability, he could do so. So I think that maybe the reason why Jan can cast Necromancy spells from scrolls in your game is only because, as a multi-class Thief, he has the Use Any Item ability (which does exactly what you say it should do), not because Mages are permitted to do so. Mages who aren't multi-class Thieves apparently cannot cast spells from scrolls that are from their opposition school. If you know of a way for them to do it, I'd love to hear it. Thieves shouldn't have all the fun.

Talk about rambling... That's the price I pay for trying to be thorough and precise.

stupid me, I forgot about UAI!

Mages who aren't multi-class Thieves apparently cannot cast spells from scrolls that are from their opposition school. If you know of a way for them to do it, I'd love to hear it.

Well there's always the potion swap trick!

Talk about rambling... That's the price I pay for trying to be thorough and precise.

And you're not alone it seems